Doctor Who opinions
- Thread starter Kaitou
- Start date
He should stay if they permanently get rid of Clara (as great eye candy as she is, she's is a lamprey to the show) and every episode he makes is on par with Heaven Sent. Otherwise, fudge it.
Zombie_61
Master Member
I'd definitely like to see Capaldi stay. He's really only been able to show what he can do in the last few episodes (i.e. with minimal or no interference from Clara), and I think he'd be amazing in the hands of a showrunner who doesn't treat Doctor Who as his/her own personal playground.
Solo4114
Master Member
Yeah, Clara was really the weak spot in the show. Moffat forever lost me as a fan when he kept her around this past season, particularly after how the previous season ended so perfectly. It was doubly bad that he basically made it seem like the past season had no impact on Clara at all going forward. If her reckless behavior was connected to it, he never, ever made that clear.
Jenna Coleman is a terrific actress and has done the best anyone could with the material for Clara, but the stories have just been...weak.
Jenna Coleman is a terrific actress and has done the best anyone could with the material for Clara, but the stories have just been...weak.
Zombie_61
Master Member
In the regard that she often overshadowed The Doctor, I agree. Female companions for The Doctor should be strong women, and Clara was that for the most part. But there's a reason it isn't called The Clara Oswald Show.
Solo4114
Master Member
Well, I think it depends. Clara was weak in different ways at different times.
In her first season as "The Impossible Girl," she was a weak link because she was, like, this objectified manic-pixie-dream-girl type character. She didn't feel like a real character, she was the "everything" for the Doctor, as if she were the linchpin of his existence. That was problematic because of how it didn't jive with the Doctor's history. Like, she's been there throughout his entire existence, but we've only known her from Matt Smith's era and onward? And he never said "It's strange...she seems....so familiar to me..." or anything of the sort. It was just a very ham-fisted way to get her into a position of prominence within the show. I thought the story of her origin, and the serendipity of her coming into existence was lovely and sweet, but her role on the show and her importance with respect to the Doctor (especially on comparison with every other companion) was just...off. Rose, for example, was super-important to Ten, but her importance made sense in terms of the characters of the two Doctors with whom she traveled. And although her later appearance was a bit too "super-important" it still was nowhere near the level of Clara's importance. To me, that was a sign of Moffat's fanboyism.
Her second season -- the first with Twelve -- was actually the one I liked the most because she genuinely felt like a character. She was an annoying character in many ways (because she couldn't decide if she wanted this life of adventure with the Doctor, or a happy home life with Danny), but it worked. They did, however, change her character and said that all of a sudden she's this bossy, demanding figure, which she hadn't been before. Again, weak writing from Moffat, in my opinion. The arc for her character that season, though, was awesome. The cost of the journey is something that's too often not explored on Doctor Who.
And then the Christmas Special happened for that year, and everything went downhill. Clara had lost the love of her life (up to that point). She'd had this very meaningful journey over the last season. It had a real impact on her. And you saw that for, oh, maybe 5 minutes in the opening of the Christmas Special, but then, no worries, she's back to normal, happy-go-lucky adventurer.
And in the most recent season, they changed her character AGAIN from the "bossy" one to the "stupidly brave" one who thinks that life's just a lark. They COULD have connected this back to the trauma of losing Danny...but they never did. The stories never explored that. They never played with the idea that, say, Clara had a death wish because she had lost Danny, because she wanted to be reunited with him or was trying to not feel the pain so she got all adventure-junkie on us. They just ignored all of that and she just....became this new character altogether. And in the end, she died. OH WAIT, no she didn't, she survived and gets to be a pseudo Doctor who just doesn't remember the Doctor which would be really interesting and tragic if it wasn't old hat because we saw something very similar happen to Donna.
What's the constant in all of this? What's the underlying problem in all of this? It's not Jenna Coleman, that's for sure. Each new iteration of Clara she played as well as you could expect anyone to. She was charming, lovely, strong, and believable -- or as believable as the writing would let her be -- in each version of Clara. No, the problem is the man setting his dolls out to act out the play he's dreamed up. The problem is Moffat himself. As a writer of individual episodes, he ranges from good to amazing. As a show runner, he's crap.
drcraig13
Sr Member
I feel so bad for Jenna Coleman (mainly because she isn't my girl friend, her loss 
) but because of how **** the writing was for her. In one episode we went from her trying to kidnap the Doctor and force him to save Danny by destroying the Tardis Keys to basically just it's OK Doctor I will do whatever you want and say. It's a waste of a quality actress to have **** writing like that.
) but because of how **** the writing was for her. In one episode we went from her trying to kidnap the Doctor and force him to save Danny by destroying the Tardis Keys to basically just it's OK Doctor I will do whatever you want and say. It's a waste of a quality actress to have **** writing like that.My only real gripe with Steven Moffat is that when Jenna Coleman decided to do "Last Christmas" last minute and the whole of series 9, last minute. He said yes. I can ignore Clara in series 9, but doing that cuts the screen time by half. The stories in series 9 were actually really good, best we've had in years I think, and I think they would've all been better with a new companion, but with a character who should have left the series in the lead, it only managed to bog down something that could have been truly great. I very much look forward to having a new companion, whoever they are, but I really never want to see or hear from Clara again.
Solo4114
Master Member
Yeah, Moffat had his flaws as a writer, but I could mostly overlook them. But bringing Clara back for the Christmas special and series 9...that was just too far. The ending of series 8 was SO good, and he just...didn't really give a crap. To me it really showcased how self-indulgent he is as a showrunner, and how little regard he seems to have for the integrity of his stories.
Man, you made something there! Something good! Something that told a specific story! You don't just waive your hand and say "Oh, never mind" right after that! Not if you're a serious storyteller you don't, anyway. And in the end, that's probably my biggest gripe with him. He sets up much of the show to be taken seriously but then simultaneously seems to have this dismissive "Oh, it's just a stupid kids show" attitude. I mean, fine, if it's a kids show, no problem. Tell your stories accordingly. But don't run all of this serious material and then totally undermine it on a whim because you like working with the actress. Or if you're going to bring her back, at least pay some bloody attention to her characterization going forward to make it look like anything you did in the last season mattered at all.
I'm honestly inclined to treat series 9 as an extended dream sequence for the Doctor. If his next companion is played by Faye Marsay (who would be GREAT), I would actually be able to just pretend it was one last mind-scramble from the Christmas episode.
I really did enjoy many of the individual episodes of series 9, but to be honest, the series as a whole was just awful. It felt utterly pointless to me. As one-off stories, sure, interesting, yeah. As any kind of coherent arc or character progression, nope. Not even a little. And all because of how they handled Clara's character.
Pearl MacKie is the new companion!!! Currently starring in the play"The Curious incident of the Dog in the Night Time", one of my favourite books in the last few years.
.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-36111598
.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-36111598
Solo4114
Master Member
Watched the reveal. I'm...eh...on the whole thing. I'm kind of bored with the "female companion in the 18-30 demographic, from Earth" approach now. I'm also a bit bored with the whole "cheeky adventure-seeker" approach, too. Glad she seems to be from the '80s, since that at least makes her a little different from the modern-day companions.
But, to be honest, I think the Doctor needs more than one companion, and needs a guy in the mix. Not because of some MRA bulls**t, but because it helps keep the show fresh and avoids straying into obvious formula territory. Plus, it gives the show more options for how to play things. That said, I'd prefer it if the show didn't treat every male companion as "the tin dog," which is how it's operated basically since 2005.
All that aside...it's really, really hard for me to get excited about this. I'm SO over Moffat and his style. I'm ready for a real change to the show, and that's not gonna happen for another two years. I'm just burned out on his style and, frankly, I don't trust his artistic instincts in the slightest anymore. Last season of Who struck me as largely pointless, and while it had some great one-off episodes, I maintain that bringing Clara back was a total creative failure.
But, to be honest, I think the Doctor needs more than one companion, and needs a guy in the mix. Not because of some MRA bulls**t, but because it helps keep the show fresh and avoids straying into obvious formula territory. Plus, it gives the show more options for how to play things. That said, I'd prefer it if the show didn't treat every male companion as "the tin dog," which is how it's operated basically since 2005.
All that aside...it's really, really hard for me to get excited about this. I'm SO over Moffat and his style. I'm ready for a real change to the show, and that's not gonna happen for another two years. I'm just burned out on his style and, frankly, I don't trust his artistic instincts in the slightest anymore. Last season of Who struck me as largely pointless, and while it had some great one-off episodes, I maintain that bringing Clara back was a total creative failure.
Clara was the single greatest problem of series 9, her being there hurts every episode and the less she was there the more there was to enjoy, the best episodes were the ones where she barely truly appeared. She canceled out a lot of great ideas and stories present in series 9 with the only positive being that she never overcame them. Having said that I'm glad it's something different, though I really wanted it to be an alien from some far off world, someone like Zoe would've been nice, intelligent even if naive, looks human even though their not, knowledge of distant worlds. It would've been much more interesting in my opinion. I wanted a male companion as well, in my personal opinion the Doctor's relationship with Jamie was the best companion relationship in the entire series, though I have a great deal of affection for Sarah Jane Smith as well, naturally.
JD
Master Member
It's understandable that not much of anyone is going to be a fan of Pearl Mackie because there's practically nothing anyone here has seen her in.
I found the reveal to be just what I'd expect a reveal to be - rather trite. I found Mackie to be pretty typical of new companion of the Doctor - full of questions that we'd find routine and boring. I didn't find her particularly fresh or exciting... and maybe even a bit safe.
...I think they cast her to give Capaldi's eyebrows a run for their money.
Noeland
Master Member
Generally speaking I don't put a lot of expectations on the show. It's a whimsical science fiction TV program and I don't take it very seriously.
I can't say I have been familiar with any of the companions before seeing them as companions, so that's a non issue for me. But that reveal was painful for me to watch. I do have preferences for what kind of characters grind my gears and what kind do not. I got through Donna, I suppose Bill can't be any worse than her.
I can't say I have been familiar with any of the companions before seeing them as companions, so that's a non issue for me. But that reveal was painful for me to watch. I do have preferences for what kind of characters grind my gears and what kind do not. I got through Donna, I suppose Bill can't be any worse than her.
Solo4114
Master Member
Generally speaking I don't put a lot of expectations on the show. It's a whimsical science fiction TV program and I don't take it very seriously.
I can't say I have been familiar with any of the companions before seeing them as companions, so that's a non issue for me. But that reveal was painful for me to watch. I do have preferences for what kind of characters grind my gears and what kind do not. I got through Donna, I suppose Bill can't be any worse than her.
See, here's the thing. Even a whimsical science fiction show ought to be taken seriously in terms of how well it executes the art of storytelling. Ass-pulls to solve a problem, inconsistent characterization, tagging on overarching plot at the very end of every episode, etc., etc., these are all amateurish techniques. Even a child's fairy tale ought to be told with narrative consistency, with characters that can resonate with the audience because they're engaging, etc. Doctor Who, under Moffat, has been a very, very mixed bag in this regard. Moffat seems to have the attitude of "What?! It's just a whimsical show! Lighten up already!" But even as pantomime, it still ought to be well-done pantomime. And it very often hasn't even been that.
As for Donna, initially I was kind of put off by her, but she really grew as a character over time, and you got to watch her change from this provincial, self-absorbed, shrill, annoying person into someone who was a truly worthy mate for the Doctor. And she wasn't the typical model of the googly-eyed "Doctor I luuuuuuurv you" smitten character who often ends up as the companion, or at least seems to be quasi-smitten with the Doctor (e.g., Rose, Martha, Amy, and Clara all). Donna would call him on his crap. And once he lost Donna, he basically lost his mind and his conscience until he regenerated into Matt Smith.
Bill might be great. Or she might be terrible. From this bit here, though, she just seems like a typical Moffat character with quippy lines in the face of danger, poking fun at the absurdities in the series that we've come to accept over years because THAT'S never been done before... In other words, she's just like every other bloody companion, except she appears to be from the mid-to-late 1980s.
Not really much to go on, except to say that it doesn't do a ton to excite me.
