Page 3 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast
Subscribe
  1. Member Since
    Jun 2014
    Messages
    27
    Oct 3, 2015, 3:19 PM - Re: The Eighth Passenger #51

    OMG what a cool Projekt. Exellent .The 3D model and bluprints Looks also cool? How have you scale it perfect to 1:1?
  2. daredevil665's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jun 2013
    From
    Emilia Romagna Italy
    Messages
    512
    Oct 3, 2015, 7:37 PM - Re: The Eighth Passenger #52

    Catzenjaeger said: View Post
    OMG what a cool Projekt. Exellent .The 3D model and bluprints Looks also cool? How have you scale it perfect to 1:1?
    Thank you, With a projector.
  3. Member Since
    Jun 2014
    Messages
    27
    Oct 10, 2015, 1:11 PM - Re: The Eighth Passenger #53

    More plz
  4. daredevil665's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jun 2013
    From
    Emilia Romagna Italy
    Messages
    512
    Nov 20, 2015, 2:01 PM - Re: The Eighth Passenger #54

    Hello everyone,here are the molded parts, finally! However, the mold is cracked,although I can retrieve it with putty. Probably it was filled with polyurethane in the inland areas, between the ribs,and would resist better. Soon I'll put pictures of the dome trimmed on the head. I hope that the contour of the dome is not too different from that of the head.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMAG1871.jpg 
Views:	36 
Size:	830.1 KB 
ID:	557301
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMAG1872.jpg 
Views:	29 
Size:	958.5 KB 
ID:	557302
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMAG1873.jpg 
Views:	29 
Size:	811.6 KB 
ID:	557303
  5. daredevil665's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jun 2013
    From
    Emilia Romagna Italy
    Messages
    512
    Nov 22, 2015, 6:49 AM - Re: The Eighth Passenger #55

    hello everyone, I'm very happy because,having taken the pieces separately,although there I trusted, I would never have expected this precision. After trimmed the dome, the contours of the head and the dome are practically identical. Now I can finally finish the head and round the contour of the head to recover that part of the radius that was not possible to get to mold,because it would be too undercut.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMAG1896.jpg 
Views:	64 
Size:	784.3 KB 
ID:	557910
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMAG1883.jpg 
Views:	43 
Size:	805.3 KB 
ID:	557911
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMAG1884.jpg 
Views:	30 
Size:	738.9 KB 
ID:	557912
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMAG1889.jpg 
Views:	30 
Size:	645.0 KB 
ID:	557913
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMAG1887.jpg 
Views:	33 
Size:	563.0 KB 
ID:	557914
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMAG1893.jpg 
Views:	44 
Size:	706.1 KB 
ID:	557915
  6. xenobiologist RPF Premium Member Leigh's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jul 2011
    From
    Cambs, UK
    Messages
    1,739
    Nov 22, 2015, 2:10 PM - Re: The Eighth Passenger #56

    This is Awesome!!!

    How did the Vacuum forming process go? Did it all form around your mould easily?? Did it need any persuasion???

    Since our moulds are very similar in design & you've been able to get on with yours, I've been looking forward to this update
  7. daredevil665's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jun 2013
    From
    Emilia Romagna Italy
    Messages
    512
    Nov 23, 2015, 4:25 AM - Re: The Eighth Passenger #57

    Leigh said: View Post
    This is Awesome!!!

    How did the Vacuum forming process go? Did it all form around your mould easily?? Did it need any persuasion???

    Since our moulds are very similar in design & you've been able to get on with yours, I've been looking forward to this update
    Hello Leigh,
    Premise that this piece that Giger designed, is tremendous.
    I think to make the original, have troubled a lot, that, in fact, in the scenes of the film and in the various images, it is always a bit 'ramshackle. For other people who have replicated the head of ALIEN, hiding the outline behind the tube, rather than above as in the original. In this way they avoid all the difficulties of the undercut of the dome.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	sideshowalienhead1.jpg 
Views:	348 
Size:	60.4 KB 
ID:	558235Click image for larger version. 

Name:	unnamed--630b432ddd.jpg 
Views:	351 
Size:	564.2 KB 
ID:	558236

    For the vacuum, I brought the mold at a company that makes thermoformed. The material for the sheet to be thermoformed, I used the PETG, which is resistant to normal cans of acrylic paint and alcohol, which I use to airbrush and paint to clean up any mistakes. The slab of origin has a thickness of 5 mm to obtain a thickness of 3mm printed. The size of the sheets is 1.5 x 1 m.

    The mold came out well, without fatigue or persuasion, but I think the die maker could pull more on the boundary, practicing more suction holes. I have to ask for confirmation of this question and then I will make you know.

    However I think it is impossible, with a normal thermoforming, get the piece as in the original, with so much undercut. I think that the piece does not come out from the mold and you should cut without removing it from the mold. Leaving a deep groove in the mold, on the contour of the cut, so that the plastic does not reach that depth and it can be cut without damaging the mold. But this is just my idea never proven. So I chose a compromise between putting the dome in front of the tube, as in the original, but to limit the undercut, dividing it between the head and the dome.



    The plaster mold is cracked in several places, probably because it was too hard. Fortunately he not scored too dome. The mold will be adjusted with filler, but I intend to do it again with a special resin charged aluminum, which probably allows casting in a mold made of fiberglass (Iam informing). This casting resin should have an exothermic peak of max 50 , a processing time of between 2.5 and 3 hours, and a time of demoulding of 20-24 hours. This resin is made for thermoforming, because, unlike the plaster has superior mechanical characteristics and a lower cost than machined from solid metal.

    For these reasons, I believe that your mold fiberglass can not resist the pressure, vacuum and temperature of the thermo-formed (130 ). I think you should follow my concept. You should build two half-shells on your mold, for casting in a resin and obtain the same form of your mold. But I think the critical point is that you also reduce undercuts, dividing them in half between the head and the dome. So change the molds of the head. Moreover, having to manually trim thermoformed, it is impossible to have a sharp coincidence of contours and will always require a minimum grouting.


    You could try to make a plaster casting standard, which costs very little. This way you may see if the thermoformed out of the mold. But you still have to do at least two half-shells made of fiberglass.

    It is a complicated big job! Why did a monster so complicated ?!
    Last edited by daredevil665; Nov 23, 2015 at 5:21 AM.
  8. daredevil665's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jun 2013
    From
    Emilia Romagna Italy
    Messages
    512
    Nov 23, 2015, 5:29 AM - Re: The Eighth Passenger #58

    Leigh said: View Post
    This is Awesome!!!

    How did the Vacuum forming process go? Did it all form around your mould easily?? Did it need any persuasion???

    Since our moulds are very similar in design & you've been able to get on with yours, I've been looking forward to this update

    Meanwhile I answer that, I have confirmed that the resin molds charged aluminum, can be cast in molds made of fiberglass.

    The resin is MC 1164 / W 340, which you can find here:

    http://www.cristex.co.uk/products/tooling-system-resin
    Last edited by daredevil665; Nov 23, 2015 at 5:35 AM.
  9. daredevil665's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jun 2013
    From
    Emilia Romagna Italy
    Messages
    512
    Nov 23, 2015, 7:43 AM - Re: The Eighth Passenger #59

    ...I forgot, another tip if you do a plaster mold, is to fill the cavity between the ribs with polyurethane foam at least 90kg / m3 density. This could help to support the collapsing vacuum producing cracks.

    In my case, it would take about 28 liter volume of the mold, which is equivalent to 6 cans MC 1164 + 6 cans of hardener W 340, for a total of 174 €. For the synthetic gypsum spent € 150. So, for just 24 € difference, I could make the mold resin that would not be cracked, but I thought it was not compatible with the fiberglass.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	stamp.jpg 
Views:	347 
Size:	20.4 KB 
ID:	558255



    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	stamp 2.jpg 
Views:	345 
Size:	19.9 KB 
ID:	558256
    Last edited by daredevil665; Nov 23, 2015 at 7:52 AM.
  10. xenobiologist RPF Premium Member Leigh's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jul 2011
    From
    Cambs, UK
    Messages
    1,739
    Nov 24, 2015, 3:02 AM - Re: The Eighth Passenger #60

    It all sounds pretty complicated Thanks for the detailed reply

    Looks like I've got my work cut out when I eventually get some time to get on with mine
  11. daredevil665's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jun 2013
    From
    Emilia Romagna Italy
    Messages
    512
    Nov 24, 2015, 3:09 AM - Re: The Eighth Passenger #61

    Leigh said: View Post
    It all sounds pretty complicated Thanks for the detailed reply

    Looks like I've got my work cut out when I eventually get some time to get on with mine
    ...Or you could make a mold with the silicone rubber and casting a transparent resin? The difficult, would be to get a uniform thickness, because one side copy it with the rubber, but for the other side how would you do? Perhaps layering fiberglass and then sand the very finely, to get the other side with silicone rubber? There is a casting resin, flexible and durable?


    I apologize, because I the wrong line of the mold division


    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMAG1898.jpg 
Views:	353 
Size:	1.12 MB 
ID:	558639

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMAG1897.jpg 
Views:	353 
Size:	1.15 MB 
ID:	558640
    Last edited by daredevil665; Nov 24, 2015 at 3:15 AM.
  12. xenobiologist RPF Premium Member Leigh's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jul 2011
    From
    Cambs, UK
    Messages
    1,739
    Nov 24, 2015, 7:01 AM - Re: The Eighth Passenger #62

    I have put some thought into casting in clear resin & yes definitely doable but bubbles would be a major PITA.

    I'd like to vac-form mine in 3mm polycarbonate, tough stuff!
  13. daredevil665's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jun 2013
    From
    Emilia Romagna Italy
    Messages
    512
    Nov 25, 2015, 8:12 AM - Re: The Eighth Passenger #63

    Leigh said: View Post
    I have put some thought into casting in clear resin & yes definitely doable but bubbles would be a major PITA.

    I'd like to vac-form mine in 3mm polycarbonate, tough stuff!
    Hello Leigh,
    I think you should change the section of your mold, from blue to red, because that as it is now, I am sure that the thermoformed absolutely can not get out from the mold.

    Name:  SECTIONS.jpg
Views: 330
Size:  51.4 KB
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	MOLD.jpg 
Views:	14 
Size:	27.2 KB 
ID:	559135  
  14. plastik46's Avatar
    Member Since
    Oct 2014
    From
    macungie pa
    Messages
    37
    Nov 25, 2015, 9:14 AM - Re: The Eighth Passenger #64

    Hey Guys, When i eventually do my dome i will be trying a negative form instead of the positive. Cavx gave me the idea you can see it on pg 2 of my thread. I'll basically am planning to do a 2 part fiberglass mould like you have done to make your positive.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	STAMPO 1.jpg 
Views:	23 
Size:	108.6 KB 
ID:	559151
    you would need to have small holes around the under cuts and top of the dome to remove the air and have suction. i plan on using small pipes moulded into the fiberglass shell. you could then just separate the shell and avoid the undercut issue. i'm thinking of using silicone sealant on all the seams and flanges to get good suction.
    Just thought i would share the idea to help out

    Basic idea behind it:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	fetch.png 
Views:	32 
Size:	23.0 KB 
ID:	559152
    daredevil665 said: View Post
    Hello Leigh,
    I think you should change the section of your mold, from blue to red, because that as it is now, I am sure that the thermoformed absolutely can not get out from the mold.

    Name:  SECTIONS.jpg
Views: 330
Size:  51.4 KB
  15. daredevil665's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jun 2013
    From
    Emilia Romagna Italy
    Messages
    512
    Nov 25, 2015, 9:40 AM - Re: The Eighth Passenger #65

    plastik46 said: View Post
    Hey Guys, When i eventually do my dome i will be trying a negative form instead of the positive. Cavx gave me the idea you can see it on pg 2 of my thread. I'll basically am planning to do a 2 part fiberglass mould like you have done to make your positive.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	STAMPO 1.jpg 
Views:	23 
Size:	108.6 KB 
ID:	559151
    you would need to have small holes around the under cuts and top of the dome to remove the air and have suction. i plan on using small pipes moulded into the fiberglass shell. you could then just separate the shell and avoid the undercut issue. i'm thinking of using silicone sealant on all the seams and flanges to get good suction.
    Just thought i would share the idea to help out

    Basic idea behind it:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	fetch.png 
Views:	32 
Size:	23.0 KB 
ID:	559152
    Interesting! Not remain signs of mold separation?
  16. plastik46's Avatar
    Member Since
    Oct 2014
    From
    macungie pa
    Messages
    37
    Nov 25, 2015, 9:45 AM - Re: The Eighth Passenger #66

    i'm planning on bolting the flanges together every 2 inches and also using silicone sealant so i don't think there would be separation issues.
  17. daredevil665's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jun 2013
    From
    Emilia Romagna Italy
    Messages
    512
    Nov 27, 2015, 5:21 AM - Re: The Eighth Passenger #67

    One of the original molds ...
    Name:  sdsdome 2.jpg
Views: 304
Size:  139.8 KB


    Name:  sdsdome ZOOM 2.jpg
Views: 305
Size:  44.4 KB
    Attached Images Attached Images  
  18. xenobiologist RPF Premium Member Leigh's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jul 2011
    From
    Cambs, UK
    Messages
    1,739
    Nov 27, 2015, 10:45 AM - Re: The Eighth Passenger #68

    This what I've based mine on. What you can't see is if there are any holes drilled in the undercut? it worked for them though
  19. daredevil665's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jun 2013
    From
    Emilia Romagna Italy
    Messages
    512
    Nov 27, 2015, 11:08 AM - Re: The Eighth Passenger #69

    Leigh said: View Post
    This what I've based mine on. What you can't see is if there are any holes drilled in the undercut? it worked for them though
    What is seen is only that they managed to thermoformed, but no one knows how did they remove it from the mold.
  20. Official Licensee RPF Premium Member DAVIDYR1's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jan 2002
    From
    Toronto, Ontario - Canada!
    Messages
    1,895
    Nov 27, 2015, 11:25 AM - Re: The Eighth Passenger #70

    Years ago I read that that vacuum form had to be cut off the buck in sections. The undercuts were far too drastic that the back bottom and side undercuts were trimmed a little more flush to allow it to be removed from the buck.
    It was from an Alien or Giger Art-book...I honestly dont remember which one but the article fascinated me back then because I was taking a plastics class in college.

    David
  21. xenobiologist RPF Premium Member Leigh's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jul 2011
    From
    Cambs, UK
    Messages
    1,739
    Nov 28, 2015, 4:08 PM - Re: The Eighth Passenger #71

    daredevil665 said: View Post
    What is seen is only that they managed to thermoformed, but no one knows how did they remove it from the mold.
    Brute force!!

    I appreciate that mine wont come off easily & will most likely need to be cut while still on the mould but it absolutely has to have those undercuts! I'm thinking about knocking up my own vacuum forming table just for this as I have a feeling a company wont take on the job
  22. daredevil665's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jun 2013
    From
    Emilia Romagna Italy
    Messages
    512
    Nov 29, 2015, 2:37 AM - Re: The Eighth Passenger #72

    Leigh said: View Post
    Brute force!!

    I appreciate that mine wont come off easily & will most likely need to be cut while still on the mould but it absolutely has to have those undercuts! I'm thinking about knocking up my own vacuum forming table just for this as I have a feeling a company wont take on the job
    It is right to pursue its objectives.

    And, if I have not misunderstood, you do not accept the half results: or the dome is with all undercut that you have created, or leave your sculpture without dome. so it is?
  23. RPF Premium Member mutronics's Avatar
    Member Since
    Mar 2007
    From
    Uk, Devon, Exeter, Hele
    Messages
    365
    Nov 29, 2015, 9:04 AM - Re: The Eighth Passenger #73

    Could the buck be made in two halves? Cut down the middle, but with a wedge shaped part in the center on the underside. When the piece has been formed, turn it over pull out the wedge and the two halves should have room to be taken out.
  24. daredevil665's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jun 2013
    From
    Emilia Romagna Italy
    Messages
    512
    Nov 29, 2015, 9:52 AM - Re: The Eighth Passenger #74

    mutronics said: View Post
    Could the buck be made in two halves? Cut down the middle, but with a wedge shaped part in the center on the underside. When the piece has been formed, turn it over pull out the wedge and the two halves should have room to be taken out.
    I had thought. where there are separations,they remain impressions. and unfortunately this is not a piece that can be sanded,unless it is known a method to return to polish the plastic.
  25. xenobiologist RPF Premium Member Leigh's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jul 2011
    From
    Cambs, UK
    Messages
    1,739
    Nov 30, 2015, 5:34 AM - Re: The Eighth Passenger #75

    mutronics said: View Post
    Could the buck be made in two halves? Cut down the middle, but with a wedge shaped part in the center on the underside. When the piece has been formed, turn it over pull out the wedge and the two halves should have room to be taken out.
    I thought of something like this when I was planning my buck (mould) but as DD says my concern would be leaving impressions in the form which would be difficult if not impossible to remove. I'm going to drill the row of small holes along the perimeter of mine & try it out using a thinner material than DD has used. I'm thinking 3mm Polycarbonate. It should stretch to leave 1mm thickness at the thinnest areas, it'll be strong (used on RC buggy body's) & hopefully flexible enough to go over the undercuts for removal. I expect it'll still put up a bit of a fight though

    DD have you tried a thinner material?

Similar Threads

  1. The Mighty Eighth (Band of Brothers sequel) 2014
    The Terminator, Entertainment and Movie Talk
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: May 1, 2017, 7:00 PM
  2. The Eighth Doctor TVM headgear questions.
    DoctorEight, Replica Props
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: Feb 2, 2014, 5:37 PM
  3. ALIEN - 8TH PASSENGER 1:1 arrived
    Emeldahay, Replica Props
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: Apr 4, 2007, 11:22 AM

Tags