Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Pre-release)

How exactly was Luke a role model for kids if you just look at ESB?.

That would be your mistake: ignoring his arc and focusing only on the part where he was at his lowest.

The Hero's journey is a time honoured tale... and it always has it's low point. If we chose to ignore the arc and look only at that point...yes. But that isn't nearly the whole picture, is it?
 
I wish I had done that. I told myself I would, when Mark and Rian made the request. But I received a bunch of texts and emails overnight from friends asking, "Whoa?! Did you see Chewie in the new trailer?!?! He looks like crap!!!!". So, I watched it. And I'm sorry I did. I hate spoilers, and I hate false-spoilers (what you folks are calling misdirection).

Did I like the trailer? Meh, it was okay, and there was some really cool stuff in there. But I don't trust trailers, because there are so many horrible movies that had great trailers.



No, it was a Sportball game.



He means Kylo. Luke says, "I've only seen this much raw power once before". He's qualifying the power as "raw". Vader's power was not raw, it was refined. (Certainly by the time Luke met him.) No, Luke is clearly lamenting that he failed in training Kylo by not fearing how much raw power the kid had, and the kid spun out control, out of Luke's influence.



Man, I hope you're right! I'm tempted to say I have a good feeling about this, but I can't, because I've been burned so many times before.



I fracking hate misdirections in trailers. Anticipating something to happen in a movie that doesn't, sucks.



Seeing Carrie was hands-down my favorite part of the trailer. I know she was old, and had lots of work done on her face...but those eyes...those soulful brown eyes of hers, are the same as they've always been. I'm so thankful we get to see her one more time.



I watched it, halliwax, against my better judgement, and regret it.

If you haven't succumbed to the temptation yet, don't. Keep your resolve, and wait for the picture, like Mark and Rian requested.





Looks totally CG. It's an abomination.



The eyes look CG, as well.

He's my favorite character, and he looks like crap. Not a happy camper, here, folks.



I agree with you, cboath, but as long as KK is making these movies, Rey will always be virtuous.



CT, I can see why you might think that, but no, stay in present. Luke is talking about his failure to recognize and properly harness Kylo's power. THAT is the guilt he bears. He failed his nephew. He failed his sister. And he failed his best friend--mortally.

The Wook

In a quite uncharacteristic turn of events, I agree with almost everything you've said, Wook.

Though Rian himself said Chewie was 100% practical in that shot. I will admit the eyes are waaay off... and that's prolly down to it not being Peter in the suit. :/
 
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So the only thing in this that you would define as "different" then would be the fact that it's a female going dark instead of a male? That's what you said.

So I guess it's about gender for you.

Yeah... cuz *that's* original.

Given the fact that Disney likes to stress on strong female lead characters in star wars primarily serving in the "hero" category, I'd say so. I think the latest creation of "forces of destiny" reaffirms that. In terms of female bad-guys, only variances in this degree, from the films, is Phasma and then the non-star wars classic disney villain characters, like Cruella Deville, Ursela and Maleficent. The biggest difference, however, is that the aforementioned female villains are "absolute" in perspective similar to Vader; they're definitive villains off the bat, you know they're the bad guys without a backstory-they just are. You don't need a prequel of 3 films to tell you that.

If you're looking at it purely from a gender perspective, fine, I don't care. The difference here would be the rise and fall of a female character who everyone seems to anticipate as being the "hero" of this new trilogy. Would it be so damning to find that this "expected" outcome be turned on it's head and not be predictable? Is that idea too fresh and different that it offends your senses?

The best films in history are usually the ones that are remembered for doing something new and different, which is why Star Wars is what it is today, but god forbid people want something fresh and unique out of Star Wars for once, and HEAVEN forbid that I suggest something outside of the box.
 
When Rey is with Kylo and he puts his hand out to her, what if she then chopped his hand off with her saber. That'd actually fit into Star Wars.

Of course this is only my opinion, but I suspect that is one of the bits of misdirection we have been talking about. I don't believe they are actually in that scene together.

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That's an awfully definitive statement, have you seen the movie?

I think it's more likely than not that Bryan is right.

Of course none of us can know until movie night. But I'm more than willing to go on record that its FAR more likely that Bryan is right than yourself.
 
I think it's more likely than not that Bryan is right.

Of course none of us can know until movie night. But I'm more than willing to go on record that its FAR more likely that Bryan is right than yourself.

That's fine, if you believe that. I haven't and I'm not going to tell you that I'm right about it either. Perhaps some of us are tired of mediocre story telling and like to think of something new for a change
 
My son would disagree.
Nobody cares about your son but you, and the toy marketing people.

Haha Im just kidding, it was just fun to say. But seriously though, I dont think every damn thing should be aimed at kids. There are more to movies than just kids and toy sales.
 
Of course this is only my opinion, but I suspect that is one of the bits of misdirection we have been talking about. I don't believe they are actually in that scene together.
I agree, I think it's a very tricky bit of editing with two scenes that have similar color temperatures (or one was altered to look that way).

The lighting in the two shots are fairly different (Kylo's shot is very bright all around, as though he's surrounded by flames, where only half Rey's face is lit up, which would not make sense if they're surrounded by fire), and Rey is wearing the clothing she wears when she first meets Luke, and will probably wear it at least leading up to Luke training her and before changing into what we see her wearing when she confronts Snoke— so I think that scene is close to the beginning of the film, when she's trying to convince Luke to train her on Ahch-To. As for Kylo Ren, his scar is all healed up, and it looks like he's wearing that carbon band-aid most of the film, so that's probably close to the end.

Those are my observations and speculations, but I could be 100% wrong.
 
Given the fact that Disney likes to stress on strong female lead characters in star wars primarily serving in the "hero" category, I'd say so. I think the latest creation of "forces of destiny" reaffirms that. In terms of female bad-guys, only variances in this degree, from the films, is Phasma and then the non-star wars classic disney villain characters, like Cruella Deville, Ursela and Maleficent. The biggest difference, however, is that the aforementioned female villains are "absolute" in perspective similar to Vader; they're definitive villains off the bat, you know they're the bad guys without a backstory-they just are. You don't need a prequel of 3 films to tell you that.

If you're looking at it purely from a gender perspective, fine, I don't care. The difference here would be the rise and fall of a female character who everyone seems to anticipate as being the "hero" of this new trilogy. Would it be so damning to find that this "expected" outcome be turned on it's head and not be predictable? Is that idea too fresh and different that it offends your senses?

The best films in history are usually the ones that are remembered for doing something new and different, which is why Star Wars is what it is today, but god forbid people want something fresh and unique out of Star Wars for once, and HEAVEN forbid that I suggest something outside of the box.


1. We don't know anything at all about Phasma. So I don't think it can be said that we "know she's a definitive villain off the bat". The others are set up in the story to be just that... so nothing new there. They are being whom they were written to be... same for Rey.

2. What offends my senses is that you made a statement in which the only incongruous factor was gender, and then when i point that out you try to hide the fact with misdirection rather than either acknowledge it or offer a definitive denial.

In any case, it's notthat I think your dark-turning Rey idea is "new and fresh"... in fact the same was done in reverse in ROTJ when Vader was turned back to the light. It's only that I don't think it makes sense for Rey as she's been written thusfar. Of course it's my opinion (one that many share).

3. Star Wars isn't "Fresh and Unique" in the OT, either. It utilizes many time honoured tropes to tell it's classic story.
 
Well I've been told the reason Chewie looks so clean and well groomed by Rian himself.

Chewie has been on the island for a few months , where its a life of living in the open with roasted porg every night over the camp fire but damp and smoky leftovers in the morning . Theres nothing to do , he's bored without Han and it is, to be quite frank ,taking its toll on him.

Even the interior of the Falcon is getting more filthy from all the mud and ashes he's been trampling in everyday (why do you think its always looked like a dog has shaken itself up the walls for forty years). He's caught fleas from the porgs, the sand is getting everywhere and in the cockpit where he sits and cries over Hans empty chair every day his lost hair litters the flooring. He feels alone and unloved.

Reys gone off alot with Luke now (who clearly blames him for not protecting Han) but last time she came back she went all darkside over the state of the Falcon, and how she doesn't have to clean it up just because shes a girl ( even if Kylo Rens Force nick name for her is " Mary Sue" ), and if Chewie doesn't sort it out she'll skin him alive with her sabre and turn him into an interesting piece of furniture for the Falcons lounge area.

So for Chewie , still depressed over the crap way Han died and the fact old age is affecting his eye sight so badly he didn't manage to shoot Kylo anywhere fatal,hits rock bottom. He grabs a mop and bucket and wanders down to the sea to get fresh water.

As he glances down at his reflection he sees how different he looks now,old and tatty and is overcome by a fit of depression . There and then he decides to throws himself in, intending to end it all. Afterall Leia didn't hug him , Luke has clear gone mad and never visits, Reys a bitch and eatting so many porgs has given him gas so bad that if he farts by the camp fire he's indanger of setting himself alight.

But as he wades out into the ocean to drown, some porgs start to follow him. Actually they're more interested in all the sand fleas that are jumping out of his coat on little fur life rafts ,which are attracting the fish ,which the porgs scoff down. Chewie yammers at them to leave him alone so he can drown himself with dignity ,only to discover they're really good mimics and can talk back to him.

Chewie remembers Hans deep love of Wookie show tunes and sings the porgs Hans favorite song as a lament to his lost friend and the porgs are so impressed they join in with the chorus. Chewie realises he is the fabled "Chosen One" , the "Porg Whisperer" the caretakers of the island have been waiting for eons, not all these stupid jedi tourists that keep getting bitten by the sand fleas and catching a rare midichlorian disease that gave them alot of difficult personality issues to go along with the wierdly unpredictable raw powers.

Refreshed and with a new purpose to his life Chewie swims around the island trailed by flocks of singing porgs and he swears never to eat another. And when he makes land, the porgs follow him upto the Falocn, where in a touching and funny dance sequence ala Mary Poppins, they clean the ship together.

And when Rey returns shes so impressed she offers to give his fur a bit of a trim with the lightsabre (for the first time in forty years) and (with all the porgs hes eatten being so fat and juicy) Chewie realises his fur has actually taken on a special luxuriant shine that any Wookie over two hundred years old would really want.

So after another swim and a conditoning blow dry from the Falcons engines he gets Rey to lend him some of her jedi hair care products and gets R2 D2 to style it in for him with all the extra grooming tools Luke hid in him years ago ( when he knew he would need a good barber to loose that really wild " lost in the wilderness look" when he returned).

Chewie looks at himself in the Falcons mirror. He looks fabulous!!! Hes happy and content and smells great mainly because he's stopped passing porg driven farts every five minutes. Life is all good again.

Right up to the moment when the First Order steam back in ,and, after stealing Rey again (Oh boy, I think that young lady's gonna have kidnapping and torture issues later on in life to go with the "!Mary Sue complex"), they toast Porg Island .

And now Chewie IS pissed. Hes going to make the First Order pay.

The really story in the film is not about any "Last Jedi. Its "Porgies: Chewbaccas Revenge"!!!!!!!

And hes going to be well groomed about it.



PS This is for The Wook. Like everything else .
 
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I quite agree.

It would make ZERO sense to introduce Rey as our new Hero only to have her go dark.

There are countless movies that introduce heroes and turn them "to the dark side" and no one bats an eye. How does it "make zero sense" for them to turn Rey? Because she's a female? Which is a good segue to...

So the only thing in this that you would define as "different" then would be the fact that it's a female going dark instead of a male? That's what you said.

So I guess it's about gender for you.

Yeah... cuz *that's* original.
So your opinion that Rey can't go to the dark side has nothing to do with her gender or that she's one if only a few female main characters in sci fi? The way you're talking: no offense, but I don't buy it.

If it makes sense for the character and the story, even if she is a female that little girls everywhere look up to, then that's where it has to go.
 
1. We don't know anything at all about Phasma. So I don't think it can be said that we "know she's a definitive villain off the bat". The others are set up in the story to be just that... so nothing new there. They are being whom they were written to be... same for Rey.

2. What offends my senses is that you made a statement in which the only incongruous factor was gender, and then when i point that out you try to hide the fact with misdirection rather than either acknowledge it or offer a definitive denial.

In any case, it's notthat I think your dark-turning Rey idea is "new and fresh"... in fact the same was done in reverse in ROTJ when Vader was turned back to the light. It's only that I don't think it makes sense for Rey as she's been written thusfar. Of course it's my opinion (one that many share).

3. Star Wars isn't "Fresh and Unique" in the OT, either. It utilizes many time honoured tropes to tell it's classic story.


1. They just released a book about captain phasma, which details her backstory, so that claim is refuted. She's established as a "bad guy" off the bat in TFA, especially her introduction in ordering the slaughter of villagers. The book explains that she's someone who only serves to protect her self interests and survival- so her loyalties depend on what she feels is best for her.

2. Oh me oh my, it's not my fault that they decided to roll with a female lead in this film. Sorry, but what's in your pants doesn't matter to me, and if me suggesting a female lead do something outside the norm is offensive, then you're just being regressive in your logic.

3. Then why are we debating it so much almost 40 years later w/ Disney deciding to do a movie every year for next 30 something years? It's obviously because it was "fresh and unique" in the 70s DESPITE being inspired from older film and mythology. If it wasn't fresh and unique it would have come and gone just like a lot of other films.
 
Even the interior of the Falcon is getting more filthy from all the mud and ashes he's been trampling in everyday (why do you think its always looked like a dog has shaken itself up the walls for forty years).

Hey CutThumb ! LOVE IT!!! :lol

psst! It's "(boy that young lady's gonna have..."

One thing I'm confused about... the Porgs are O.K. with Chewie eating them? Or do they enter a trance-like state while singing the chorus and Chewie gobbles them up at that point when they're unaware of the danger they're in?

Or is it their honor to feed themselves to "The Chosen One" as an offering to his greatness in order to sustain him while he protects the majority of the population there on the island? ;)

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I think you just accidentally wrote a sequel to the SW Holiday Special.

I'D SO WATCH IT TOO!!!!
 
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Hey @CutThumb ! LOVE IT!!! :lol

psst! It's "(boy that young lady's gonna have..."

One thing I'm confused about... the Porgs are O.K. with Chewie eating them? Or do they enter a trance-like state while singing the chorus and Chewie gobbles them up at that point when they're unaware of the danger they're in?

Or is it their honor to feed themselves to "The Chosen One" as an offering to his greatness in order to sustain him while he protects the majority of the population there on the island? ;)

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I'D SO WATCH IT TOO!!!!

All of the above. With extra Chewies Special Barbacue Porg sauce and fries of course!!! (Oh wait I think that came out wrong).
 
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See, those porgs looks sweet and innocent, but turn your back for two seconds, it's a space penguin bloodbath.
 

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