Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Pre-release)

Star Wars isn't about falling from grace (well, it wasn't until those damned prequels...).
Rey is a hero to little girls all around the world who would be crushed if she turns evil.
Do you really expect Disney to break the hearts of a billion little girls?
She'll have to wrestle with her emotions just like Luke did, I'm sure.
She'll be filled with hatred, she'll act out of anger, and she'll remember that that's the path to the dark side and she'll check herself.
This is EXACTLY why they Should have her go DARK!

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Sorry, man - I disagree.
Luke was a farm boy who was in over his head - and he knew it.
He was never the "strongest jedi in the galaxy" - he gambled, and got lucky.
He never even completed his training before he squared off with Vader - and he sure as heck wasn't counting on the Emperor being there.
He botched his Han rescue on Tatooine, and if he hadn't been semi-smart enough to put an ace up his sleeve (a lightsaber in R2) he'd have lost, and he and his friends would have been dead.
Luke didn't use "jedi strength" to defeat the Emperor - he gambled. On love.
Love saved the day in ROTJ - not "jedi skillzz".

I have to disagree. Obi Wan and Yoda clearly had no illusion that Vader would turn back the Light Side AT ALL. They considered him lost and said so. They never planned on Anakin's love of his son winning him over leading to the Emperor's death. They clearly believed that despite his lack of training, that Luke was powerful enough to take on Vader AND the Emperor, who Yoda couldn't even beat. Vader even says in the movie that Luke is powerful and a threat (the Emperor even says in ESB that Luke could destroy them, not get lucky). I won't even say that Luke was lucky because he knew and felt that Anakin was still in there. He surrendered believing Anakin would help him. He doesn't have the raw potential that Anakin had, but I'm guessing Luke and Leia still have higher midichlorian counts than most Jedi.

I think people are reading to much into the comment Luke has about only encountering that raw power once. He means that both Kylo and Rey had a lot of power without much training beforehand. I don't think they are saying that they are super powerful. Otherwise Kylo Ren wouldn't have waited until Luke was gone to take out his academy (or whatever). He would have taken Luke out as well.
 
This is EXACTLY why they Should have her go DARK!Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Seriously.
Remember when Snow White killed the 8th Dwarf... but then she made good with letting the other 7 live with her?
Remember when Cinderella ran over her step sisters in the pumpkin carriage? All good though, because the evidence disappeared at midnight.
Remember when ... none of that happened.

But look at the other Disney female role models.
ScarJo plays Black Widow... the cleavage wielding assassin turned Avenger that beats the crap out of evil.
Zoe Saldana plays Gamora... green assassin turned Guardian of the Galaxy that beats the crap out of evil.
Evangeline Lilly plays The Wasp... she'll be beating the crap out of evil soon.
Brie Larsen plays Captain Marvel... I don't know anything about her but I'm certain she's going to beat the crap out of evil.

Disney's female role models seem to be consistent with America's culture of entertaining violence.
 
So I was wondering why at the end of Empire, Luke has a nice new and realistic looking hand. Yet in this movie, its robotic and older looking. Well, my fiance thinks that it is the same mechanical hand from Empire, but maybe the fake skin got burnt off when his academy was burnt down. She thinks its why they showed his hand popping out of the rubble. in the trailer.
Any thoughts on this?
 
So I was wondering why at the end of Empire, Luke has a nice new and realistic looking hand. Yet in this movie, its robotic and older looking. Well, my fiance thinks that it is the same mechanical hand from Empire, but maybe the fake skin got burnt off when his academy was burnt down. She thinks its why they showed his hand popping out of the rubble. in the trailer.
Any thoughts on this?

Seems like a legit explanation.
He hasn't been hanging out with the Rebellion that gave him his original replacement hand. He went into exile, with no medical support.

I have to disagree. Obi Wan and Yoda clearly had no illusion that Vader would turn back the Light Side AT ALL. They considered him lost and said so. They never planned on Anakin's love of his son winning him over leading to the Emperor's death. They clearly believed that despite his lack of training, that Luke was powerful enough to take on Vader AND the Emperor, who Yoda couldn't even beat. Vader even says in the movie that Luke is powerful and a threat (the Emperor even says in ESB that Luke could destroy them, not get lucky). I won't even say that Luke was lucky because he knew and felt that Anakin was still in there. He surrendered believing Anakin would help him. He doesn't have the raw potential that Anakin had, but I'm guessing Luke and Leia still have higher midichlorian counts than most Jedi.

I think people are reading to much into the comment Luke has about only encountering that raw power once. He means that both Kylo and Rey had a lot of power without much training beforehand. I don't think they are saying that they are super powerful. Otherwise Kylo Ren wouldn't have waited until Luke was gone to take out his academy (or whatever). He would have taken Luke out as well.

I'm chalking all of it up as bad, inconsistent storytelling... mostly thanks to the prequels that showed how powerful both Anakin/Vader and The Emperor really were.
Anakin was insanely skilled with a lightsaber and a natural pilot... in the prequels.
In the OT, he was slow and could only fly in a straight line in a trench and didn't have enough force-foresight to know that Han Solo was going to come up behind him in the Falcon.

Senator Palpatine was a feeble old man that jacked up 3 Jedi in about 5 minutes... two with a lightsaber and one with crazy finger lighting. THEN he battles Yoda, flipping and sabering all over the place... in the prequels.

20-ish years later... the force didn't keep him young (like Obi-Want who looked about 35 in the prequels and about 85 in the OT). Even though Yoda was 880-something when he was fighting Palpatine. Still had the lightning, which you would think Yoda would have warned Luke about.

And yeah... Obi-Wan and Yoda saw Luke, whose training consisted of getting shot by a ball in the Falcon and floating some rocks and his droid for a couple minutes, as the savior of the galaxy. The same two guys who didn't see that Anakin would go nuts and murder a bunch of children and the entire Jedi population somehow saw Luke as the man. And oh yeah... BTW Luke... you have a sister. The chick you made out with. Probably should have mentioned that sooner. Way. Sooner. Could have brought her to train so Luke didn't have to take on the baddest dudes around by himself.

What's funny is non-cannon fiction and fan fiction are almost guaranteed to be more consistent than the studio's stories. Because they're written by people who live and breathe Star Wars. But why use those stories... Hollywood only uses original material. ;)
 
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Where do you get Obi-Wan looked 85 in the OT? Guinness turned 62 in the middle of filming A New Hope. His hair was that color in reality (He did wear a hairpiece) and they didn't add wrinkle make-up to his face or anything.

Seems like a legit explanation.
He hasn't been hanging out with the Rebellion that gave him his original replacement hand. He went into exile, with no medical support.



I'm chalking all of it up as bad, inconsistent storytelling... mostly thanks to the prequels that showed how powerful both Anakin/Vader and The Emperor really were.
Anakin was insanely skilled with a lightsaber and a natural pilot... in the prequels.
In the OT, he was slow and could only fly in a straight line in a trench and didn't have enough force-foresight to know that Han Solo was going to come up behind him in the Falcon.

Senator Palpatine was a feeble old man that jacked up 3 Jedi in about 5 minutes... two with a lightsaber and one with crazy finger lighting. THEN he battles Yoda, flipping and sabering all over the place... in the prequels.

20-ish years later... the force didn't keep him young (like Obi-Want who looked about 35 in the prequels and about 85 in the OT). Even though Yoda was 880-something when he was fighting Palpatine. Still had the lightning, which you would think Yoda would have warned Luke about.

And yeah... Obi-Wan and Yoda saw Luke, whose training consisted of getting shot by a ball in the Falcon and floating some rocks and his droid for a couple minutes, as the savior of the galaxy. The same two guys who didn't see that Anakin would go nuts and murder a bunch of children and the entire Jedi population somehow saw Luke as the man. And oh yeah... BTW Luke... you have a sister. The chick you made out with. Probably should have mentioned that sooner. Way. Sooner. Could have brought her to train so Luke didn't have to take on the baddest dudes around by himself.

What's funny is non-cannon fiction and fan fiction are almost guaranteed to be more consistent than the studio's stories. Because they're written by people who live and breathe Star Wars. But why use those stories... Hollywood only uses original material. ;)
 
If Rey is turning to the darkside why the hell is Snoke torturing her? Not a good way to win a pupil over is it?
We know he seduced Kylo, thats who he is talking to at the begininning "When I found you......" Snoke doesn't find Rey, he didn't even know she existed until her "awakening" in TFA. Remember that?
So its likely this is a little pep talk after a sad and rather heavily scarred Kylo returns to him after he had his ass quite thoroughly kicked by Rey, who as we all know is tremendously talented.
And when Luke is talking about "raw power" he's talking about the duel with the Emperor , who pretty much was on his way to completely barbecueing him with sheet lightning in ROTJ. If good old dad hadn't finally stepped in, Luke was a goner!!! And he knew it.
Its far more likely that Luke will be testing her by perhaps tempting her with elements of the darkside , probably far harder than he ever did with Ben, because he became Kylo.
Lets be honest these have not been good years for Luke, his origin as Vaders son has been revealed, his training plan for a new generation of Jedi destroyed and out of nowhere a new Empire has arisen who has corrupted (without him realising it) somebody who was not only his nephew but his strongest pupil of the Force.
So if somebody turned up on my doorstep with all these amazing force powers wanting to know what I knew I would be bloody cautious about teaching her anything as well. Infact what the hell does Luke actually know about her, there are alot of odd coincidences surrounding her and he obviously doesn't have a clue about her origin at the openning of this.

I admire how Lucasfilm is trying to muddy the water with all this misdirection ,Snoke would be well proud of them.

So it may now be officially retconned, but what Yoda said in ESB came true:

Yoda: Decide you must, how to serve them best. If you leave now, help them you could; but you would destroy all for which they have fought, and suffered.
If you end your training now - if you choose the quick and easy path as Vader did - you will become an agent of evil.
 
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If you play the Chewie scene a couple of times back to back, when he growls it looks totally CGI and when he looks down it looks like it's Morphing software back to the costume, it's not a smooth transition if you really look at it a couple of times, there's some weird jump in there. It's like they're reversing the film when he starts to look down and the head at least goes from CGI to costume. His head speeds up when looking down, it looks abnormal to me. Play it a few times.
 
Do not believe Rey will turn to the dark side or is a dark side sleeper. If that was true then why does she hear Yoda, and Young Obi Wan and Old Obi Wan when she touches the lightsaber for the first time. Also Obi Wan actually tells her " these are her first steps "

I do not feel it will be her. She is meant to feel pain to draw Luke in. Remember Snoke wants him dead. If any turn or surprise I could see Luke with a dark side surprise.
Although I do not want that to happen in any way. Also do not think that will happen.

I do think another character will turn that we will not expect or even guess at. That is where the sugar is.

Movie is fine enough with Luke - Rey Good side, Kylo-Snoke the bad guys. I don't need a Kylo redemption story. He killed his father in brutal cold blood. There is no coming back from that.
Vader saved his son but was still probably along side the Emperor the most brutal homicidal monster sci fi has ever known now that we have the prequels included.

Not sure how he became a light side force ghost immediately with that one show of love in saving his son. It must have wiped out decades of brutally murdering all species, women, children and men. Amazing to grasp if you step back and look at it that way.

In closing keep Rey and Luke Good because we all deserve it and let Snoke and Kylo be the bad that they truly are. You cold brutally murdered your father Kylo the dark side has you. If you die saving Luke or Rey you may become a lightside ghost though. So there is that to look forward to.
 
Where do you get Obi-Wan looked 85 in the OT? Guinness turned 62 in the middle of filming A New Hope. His hair was that color in reality (He did wear a hairpiece) and they didn't add wrinkle make-up to his face or anything.

He has a point though: Obiwan was in his 30's in Attack and Anakin in his 20's. The time between ROTS and Star Wars is 19-20 years. That still doesn't add up to him looking closer to 70 in 1977. But that's a GL mistake.
 
What if by "raw power" Luke is referring to his encounter with the Emperor. He didn't really fear the Emperor back then. And it nearly got him killed.

Fast-forward to when Luke first encounters (one way or the other) Snoke(whom I believe to be ancient, older even then Maz). He senses a raw power equal or greater than the Emperor's and is shocked and afraid, hence his exile. He knows HOW strong Snoke is and he knows the Jedi of old had dealt with him before (imprisonment/stasis/banishment) and he's precisely looking for the knowledge to take on Snoke, knowing he'd never succeed if he tried it unprepared.


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Just gonna through this in for thought.
Snoke was once Palpatines master.
Snoke has returned to finish master plan.
Luke goes dark and to keep the rule of two, Kylo is dismissed.
Kylo seeks out Rey, to train.
Luke went dark knowing Kylo and Rey would come looking.
Luke knows his own death would complete Rey's training and set Kylo up for the chance to kill Snoke.
In essence, Luke sacrifices himself in hopes for the rise of a new Jedi order and the destruction of the Empire.
Kylo seizes opportunity, naming himself Sith Lord.

Silly sounding I'm sure.
Nothing to back this up.
Robert
 
He's 5 years within the character's age in ANH (57) Guinness turned 62 in the middle of filming in April 1976, The highest age I ever saw listed for Kenobi in ANH before the prequels were released was 65 years in Bill Slavicsek's SW guide released in 1994 (Licensed by Lucasfilm at the time) had him as 65 in ANH. Twin suns causing people to age quicker is an easy idea. Truth is people in real life quite often look older or younger than their true age.
I mean, for example, Jimmy Smits is now 62 years old in real life, I think most would say Jimmy at 62 looks younger than a 62 year old Guinness looked. TPM was set 32 years before ANH. Kenobi is 25 in TPM, 35 in AOTC, 38 in ROTS, and 57 in ANH. Quite simple. Not difficult.


He has a point though: Obiwan was in his 30's in Attack and Anakin in his 20's. The time between ROTS and Star Wars is 19-20 years. That still doesn't add up to him looking closer to 70 in 1977. But that's a GL mistake.
 
If you play the Chewie scene a couple of times back to back, when he growls it looks totally CGI and when he looks down it looks like it's Morphing software back to the costume, it's not a smooth transition if you really look at it a couple of times, there's some weird jump in there. It's like they're reversing the film when he starts to look down and the head at least goes from CGI to costume. His head speeds up when looking down, it looks abnormal to me. Play it a few times.
Hmmm...subject matter experts here people! I will agree Chewie looked too clean cut and smooth in that scene. I'm going to assume Rey or those caregivers gave him a makeover
 
I think the term "redemption" or "redeemed" may mean different things to different people. I was going to quote someone yesterday but lost it so I'll just answer here.

Someone asked why Kylo can not be redeemed like Vader/Anakin was? I'd saw Anakin was pulled from the dark side and did something good when he saved his son. BUT, he was not redeemed as far as absolved from the damage he did over time. If he survived, there was no way the Republic or anyone would have brushed off the harm he did.

The same could be said about Kylo Ren. If he turns away from the dark side would he be redeemed? Heck no! He still has to pay/be held responsible for how many murders he committed before then? I can see him becoming a hermit on some far off planet trying to help people BUT no way does the republic/resistance allow him to join their side at all.
 
I hope not, I don't like anything about this theory and I think it's far from what we will actually see. The only universe you introduce a beloved female lead and then have that be her fate is Reddit fan fiction.

I quite agree.

It would make ZERO sense to introduce Rey as our new Hero only to have her go dark. The theory smacks of the same misguidedness that leads some to believe that Luke went dark in ROTJ.

As you say, Reddit level fan fic.

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I'm not one to get all squishy inside about cutesy-wootsy crap, but I am SO on the porg bandwagon. I love that Chewie has a dorky little sidekick.


I agree!

It's high time Chewie was in the driver's seat and had a sidekick . :)

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What's wrong about that? We have to have repeated stories of lead male characters falling from grace all the time, but god forbid we have a female character do the same for once? If you stick to the cookie-cutter predictable nature of story telling, you're not going to do anything different, unique or memorable, you're essentially wrapping yourself in pillows to keep yourself safe from any harm

So the only thing in this that you would define as "different" then would be the fact that it's a female going dark instead of a male? That's what you said.

So I guess it's about gender for you.

Yeah... cuz *that's* original.

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Star Wars isn't about falling from grace (well, it wasn't until those damned prequels...).
Rey is a hero to little girls all around the world who would be crushed if she turns evil.
Do you really expect Disney to break the hearts of a billion little girls?
She'll have to wrestle with her emotions just like Luke did, I'm sure.
She'll be filled with hatred, she'll act out of anger, and she'll remember that that's the path to the dark side and she'll check herself.

This, this and THIS.

And I might add that such is a perfect mirror of Luke's struggles... which I think most all of us appreciated in ROTJ.
 
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