Correct. It was an assumption. But it wasn't confusing until GL gave us an explanation for it that contradicts what we had already been shown.
Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Pre-release)
- Thread starter rodneyfaile
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Correct. It was an assumption. But it wasn't confusing until GL gave us an explanation for it that contradicts what we had already been shown.
Mark discusses Luke’s state of mind.
http://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2017...out-lukes-state-of-mind-in-the-last-jedi.html
http://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2017...out-lukes-state-of-mind-in-the-last-jedi.html
Tan Djarka
Sr Member
Finally! All this "Luke is turning to the Dark Side" crap was annoying. The EU really introduced some fouled up ideas into the SW universe, and Disney needs to make sure it never returns.
That makes me wonder about his "The Jedi have to end" comment or whatever it was. Maybe he's all mopey and Rey gets him out of it?
harrisonp
Sr Member
Maybe it will be Luke recognizing the failings of the Jedi as an order and understanding that their tenets need to end in order for there to be advancement in the universal balance of the Force. Understanding that the line between light and dark falls within the individual and their connection to the Force, and not some doctrine.
Father
Sr Member
The Jedi and Sith are like the power cards in the decks of both the Empire and the Rebellion, but I feel like in the end if the Rebels didn't have a Jedi on their side, they're never get their **** together enough to beat the Empire. The Empire's Sith are usually the ones that use intimidation more internally ("build this battle station or I'll choke you"), where the Rebel's use the Jedi on the front lines.
I'm relieved that they aren't using Luke turning to the dark side as a cheap trick to have some sort of "shocking reveal" for The Last Jedi. It would completely undermine his character and everything he went through in the original trilogy. What makes his ordeal so triumphant in Return of the Jedi is that despite almost giving in to the temptation to kill Vader, when he gets the chance he resists and in doing so defies the Emperor.
He is a rebel hero! Literally. Rebelling against the Emperor, rebelling against the Dark Side and rebelling against his hatred for Vader and choosing to believe that there is good left in his father that's worth saving. Even to the point of death. You can't get much more powerful thematically than that. It's Luke's overwhelming love for his father that reignites Vader's love for his son and reminds him that he is still a man despite all the machinery keeping him alive.
I would be devastated to see Luke turn after all of that. It wouldn't make sense at all.
I think in the new movie it will be more of Luke being a broken man and dealing with the guilt of losing his nephew and feeling responsible for the deaths of the students at his Jedi school. Maybe he will refuse to teach Rey the ways of the Force because he couldn't handle the consequences if she turns from the light too?
He is a rebel hero! Literally. Rebelling against the Emperor, rebelling against the Dark Side and rebelling against his hatred for Vader and choosing to believe that there is good left in his father that's worth saving. Even to the point of death. You can't get much more powerful thematically than that. It's Luke's overwhelming love for his father that reignites Vader's love for his son and reminds him that he is still a man despite all the machinery keeping him alive.
I would be devastated to see Luke turn after all of that. It wouldn't make sense at all.
I think in the new movie it will be more of Luke being a broken man and dealing with the guilt of losing his nephew and feeling responsible for the deaths of the students at his Jedi school. Maybe he will refuse to teach Rey the ways of the Force because he couldn't handle the consequences if she turns from the light too?
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Yeah I've been pushing more the "crisis of faith" angle with him... it would definitely connect to audiences...
Which is why I believe Kylo is holding his hand out to him... if the crisis of faith is caused by Kylo and is the basis of Luke's crappy outlook, then he can bring him back...
Which is why I believe Kylo is holding his hand out to him... if the crisis of faith is caused by Kylo and is the basis of Luke's crappy outlook, then he can bring him back...
Bones_68
Sr Member
This isn't important, just thought it was neat. The Falcon in storage on Google Earth, waiting for its next mission.
PantheraGem
Sr Member
That's awesome.
We may be getting ahead of ourselves in dismissing any possibility Luke might be or turn dark(er). We still have the dual posters that group Luke with BOTH the good and bad guys:
Then we have Mark Hamill's tweet from a few days ago, where he quotes from lyrics from Joni Mitchel's "Both Sides Now" song, changing one line to "light and dark":
https://www.google.fr/url?sa=t&rct=...034064531456&usg=AOvVaw2-1G_VeCjOm6wCu4rawFlh
Attachments
With the recent post about Luke and The Light and the Dark. Also with Snoke mentioning Light & dark several times. It made me remember the rumors and concept artwork apparently that was supposed to be for TFA.
I remember a specific few where Rey was supposed to go and see Luke and find him guarding an ancient evil and talking to himself. Some of the photos showed Luke with a hood up on a high throne area ( reminiscent of all the Snoke on throne scenes now ). Also photos showing Rey looking into a mirror/vision and him standing behind here and then taking down his hood to show a half cyborg face Luke.
Did that concept art mean something there. I absolutely would not like to see Luke turn dark. Like others have said he could just be SPLIT. Don't think Hamill would be allowed to say either way for sure what Luke is or will be doing in this movie unless Disney said so. Hamill seems to be acting like what his character will be in this one and that being Split.
Really would not care for Luke acting like the Beast in SPLIT. Acting normal one minute then blasting Figrin Dan Cantina music and doing a crazy dance for Rey. Haha
I remember a specific few where Rey was supposed to go and see Luke and find him guarding an ancient evil and talking to himself. Some of the photos showed Luke with a hood up on a high throne area ( reminiscent of all the Snoke on throne scenes now ). Also photos showing Rey looking into a mirror/vision and him standing behind here and then taking down his hood to show a half cyborg face Luke.
Did that concept art mean something there. I absolutely would not like to see Luke turn dark. Like others have said he could just be SPLIT. Don't think Hamill would be allowed to say either way for sure what Luke is or will be doing in this movie unless Disney said so. Hamill seems to be acting like what his character will be in this one and that being Split.
Really would not care for Luke acting like the Beast in SPLIT. Acting normal one minute then blasting Figrin Dan Cantina music and doing a crazy dance for Rey. Haha
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With the recent post about Luke and The Light and the Dark. Also with Snoke mentioning Light & dark several times. It made me remember the rumors and concept artwork apparently that was supposed to be for TFA.
I remember a specific few where Rey was supposed to go and see Luke and find him guarding an ancient evil and talking to himself. Some of the photos showed Luke with a hood up on a high throne area ( reminiscent of all the Snoke on throne scenes now ). Also photos showing Rey looking into a mirror/vision and him standing behind here and then taking down his hood to show a half cyborg face Luke.
Did that concept art mean something there. I absolutely would not like to see Luke turn dark. Like others have said he could just be SPLIT. Don't think Hamill would be allowed to say either way for sure what Luke is or will be doing in this movie unless Disney said so. Hamill seems to be acting like what his character will be in this one and that being Split.
Really would not care for Luke acting like the Beast in SPLIT. Acting normal one minute then blasting Figrin Dan Cantina music and doing a crazy dance for Rey. Haha
Holy crap. I just had an idea, though I can't be the first one to think of this. What if...
One poster is of Luke, and the other of clone Luuke, ripping a page out of Zahn's EU material? We already know they found the saber. Would finding the hand be that impossible a stretch, especially with Hamill's comments that there used to be a shot of both the hand and saber tumbling through space?
No. One because it's from the EU and two because it's one of the worst ideas ever from the EU.
The killing the Padawans was WAY too much IMO. I must admit that I usually forget about that part, but now that it is mentioned I find it an utterly disgusting creative decision to go down that low. I can understand George´s intention, but to be honest, just to show HOW bad and deep Anakin has fallen it was NOT necessary to even slightly suggest that he would kill younglings.
That's not even close to the worst idea. I love Aaron Allston's other books, but he created this monstrosity: https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/c/c8/Lord_Nyax.jpg What you don't see is that he also had lightsabers coming out of his knee armor... :facepalm
Unless Lucasfilm is nuts, Luke isn't going to turn. They did that in the Dark Empire comics and it was the dumbest thing ever. I think they would tick off too many fans if they did that.
seelsa73
Sr Member
I can't help but to roll my eyes at this. He showed it to demonstrate how low Anakin had fallen. Perhaps the moment wasn't earned due to the brevity with which they depicted his turn, but to say that visually suggesting it is "utterly disgusting" is amazingly overdramatic considering the movie didn't show a damn thing. And you can't purge all Jedi without dispatching all Jedi, so it's not as if even if GL didn't telegraph it it didn't happen.
cboath
Master Member
That's short changing how badly it was botched.
In-universe time, he struggled with whether or not to stop Mace from killing the emperor, to being horrified when the emperor tossed Mace out the window, to killing little kids (lots of them), teens, and adults in the Jedi temple - all in 30-60 minutes in-universe. There's simply no way at all. Period. End of story. He didn't even say 'but they're children', just OK, fine.
I get why they showed it and don't have a problem with it. It was to shown he was totally gone, but it was so poorly done that that gets lost.
In-universe time, he struggled with whether or not to stop Mace from killing the emperor, to being horrified when the emperor tossed Mace out the window, to killing little kids (lots of them), teens, and adults in the Jedi temple - all in 30-60 minutes in-universe. There's simply no way at all. Period. End of story. He didn't even say 'but they're children', just OK, fine.
I get why they showed it and don't have a problem with it. It was to shown he was totally gone, but it was so poorly done that that gets lost.
Except that, to preserve the big reveal in TESB that George himself put in (reading the story sessions with him, Kersh, and Larry, it's cool to see when it gets tossed out there and they all stop in realization of how cool a moment that'll be), we can't see Anakin's turning. The best approach would be to put subtle cues in that one only catches on repeat viewings, after you know he becomes Vader. The meadow scene on Naboo is about the only Anakin scene in the Prequels that I really actually like, because of that.
"Sounds like you're describing a dictatorship."
"Well... If it works..."
Then he realizes what he's said and tries to pass it off as a joke, but it's a nice glimpse into his frustrations at wanting to do what he feels is the right thing, and, again he feels, being hindered by the Jedi.
A standalone Vader film could delve into it better and with more nuance, and no "killing Younglings" scene, because it isn't needed. Going Dark Side for a good person like Anakin would be a matter of tiny increments of means and ends, until he realized how far down he was on the wrong path, and knew he was lost.
"It is... too late for me, my son."
If his arc was one of seeking an ally when he felt the Jedi had betrayed him, and Palpatine was more than happy to accommodate, we don't need such an over-the-top, heavy-handed demonstrator of his EEEEEEEEvilness. Just have him get more and more cruel over a couple decades, trying to make everyone "behave". Starting with hunting down the Jedi who escaped the immediate aftermath of the Emperor declaring them traitors.
I feel like Palpatine would have been more likely to order against killing the Younglings, but to take out all their guardians at the temple, and then taking custody of them, himself, to turn into Acolytes, Inquisitors, Shadow Guards, Hands, and that ilk.
--Jonah
"Sounds like you're describing a dictatorship."
"Well... If it works..."
Then he realizes what he's said and tries to pass it off as a joke, but it's a nice glimpse into his frustrations at wanting to do what he feels is the right thing, and, again he feels, being hindered by the Jedi.
A standalone Vader film could delve into it better and with more nuance, and no "killing Younglings" scene, because it isn't needed. Going Dark Side for a good person like Anakin would be a matter of tiny increments of means and ends, until he realized how far down he was on the wrong path, and knew he was lost.
"It is... too late for me, my son."
If his arc was one of seeking an ally when he felt the Jedi had betrayed him, and Palpatine was more than happy to accommodate, we don't need such an over-the-top, heavy-handed demonstrator of his EEEEEEEEvilness. Just have him get more and more cruel over a couple decades, trying to make everyone "behave". Starting with hunting down the Jedi who escaped the immediate aftermath of the Emperor declaring them traitors.
I feel like Palpatine would have been more likely to order against killing the Younglings, but to take out all their guardians at the temple, and then taking custody of them, himself, to turn into Acolytes, Inquisitors, Shadow Guards, Hands, and that ilk.
--Jonah
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