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  1. Bryancd's Avatar
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    1 Day Ago  Aug 16, 2017, 7:30 AM - Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Pre-release) #4851

    Greenie said: View Post
    Really? No one forced him to let others play in his sandbox. He could've vetoed anything he wasn't happy with. I guess lucrative book deals eased his 'pain'.
    It was just meaningless to him as he didn't consider it part of his Star Wars story.
  2. Member Since
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    22 Hours Ago  Aug 16, 2017, 12:20 PM - Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Pre-release) #4852

    Bryancd said: View Post
    It was just meaningless to him as he didn't consider it part of his Star Wars story.
    Bryan:

    Not sure I am getting your point here. I'm not one of those who feels betrayed the the EU was suddenly overwritten (didn't care much for the EU) - but GL made the conscious choice to slap the SW brand on all of the EU stuff and to take the money that came in from selling it. When you sell something as "legitimate goods", you don't just get a free pass when you turn around and say "well, thanks for buying it - actually I never considered it legitimate." If he didn't consider it legitimate, he could've (frankly, should've) vetoed it, rather than sells it as legitimate and then devalue it later by crapping all over it. You put your name on the goods and take the money for the goods - you should stand behind the goods to some extent, rather than just say "hey, even at the time you bought 'em. I knew they weren't legit."

    Sure, he can over-write the EU if he wants - but it doesn't change the fact that he made the choice to profit from it (quite handsomely) by portraying it as a legitimate "part of his SW story" at the time he was selling it - which supports the original point that GL's loyalties seem to shift based on whether there is some money in it for him.

    M
  3. Jedi-72's Avatar
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    22 Hours Ago  Aug 16, 2017, 12:36 PM - Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Pre-release) #4853

    DINVADER said: View Post
    And that my friends is an opinion, not objective fact, of course.
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  4. Bryancd's Avatar
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    21 Hours Ago  Aug 16, 2017, 12:56 PM - Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Pre-release) #4854

    mkstewartesq said: View Post
    Bryan:

    Not sure I am getting your point here. I'm not one of those who feels betrayed the the EU was suddenly overwritten (didn't care much for the EU) - but GL made the conscious choice to slap the SW brand on all of the EU stuff and to take the money that came in from selling it. When you sell something as "legitimate goods", you don't just get a free pass when you turn around and say "well, thanks for buying it - actually I never considered it legitimate." If he didn't consider it legitimate, he could've (frankly, should've) vetoed it, rather than sells it as legitimate and then devalue it later by crapping all over it. You put your name on the goods and take the money for the goods - you should stand behind the goods to some extent, rather than just say "hey, even at the time you bought 'em. I knew they weren't legit."

    Sure, he can over-write the EU if he wants - but it doesn't change the fact that he made the choice to profit from it (quite handsomely) by portraying it as a legitimate "part of his SW story" at the time he was selling it - which supports the original point that GL's loyalties seem to shift based on whether there is some money in it for him.

    M
    What I mean is that he was perfectly happy accepting the licensing revenue, he just wasn't a fan of the direction those stories took. He simply felt no need to try and modify it as he didn't consider it part of "His" story. He was consistent in saying it wasn't a direct canonical continuation of the films he made or the story in his head.
  5. RPF Premium Member NeoRutty's Avatar
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    21 Hours Ago  Aug 16, 2017, 1:01 PM - Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Pre-release) #4855

    Bryancd said: View Post
    What I mean is that he was perfectly happy accepting the licensing revenue, he just wasn't a fan of the direction those stories took. He simply felt no need to try and modify it as he didn't consider it part of "His" story. He was consistent in saying it wasn't a direct canonical continuation of the films he made or the story in his head.

    Yeah funny... I knew this for years, even reading the Zahn Trilogy, that if Lucas wanted to make more movies he could ignore everything done in the EU...

    And yet when Disney pulled the plug on the EU to introduce Rey, everyone LOST IT.

    Were they not paying attention?

    It felt like when I would say to my kid "you can start that movie, but at 9:00 you're going to bed..."

    "I know I know..."

    *9:00*

    "Okay... shut 'er off... bedtime."

    "NOOOOOO!!!! but I invested soooo muuuuuuuuuuch!!!!"
  6. blakeh1's Avatar
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    21 Hours Ago  Aug 16, 2017, 1:12 PM - Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Pre-release) #4856

    Remember Splinter in the Mind's eye?

    It was written to be a cheap low budget sequel that could re-use some of the same props etc... if Star Wars failed to deliver

    instead we got Empire

    That's how I view the EU. It is expendable material that is not really canon.

    If anything, I kind of like what Disney has done rather than be beholden, or try to retcon stuff to
  7. Member Since
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    20 Hours Ago  Aug 16, 2017, 1:43 PM - Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Pre-release) #4857

    Bryancd said: View Post
    He was consistent in saying it wasn't a direct canonical continuation of the films he made or the story in his head.
    Thanks, Bryan. But regarding the comment above - am I just mis-remembering? I thought post-1983 (and especially when the EU started up in 1990 or so), he was pretty explicit that, since he wasn't making further films, he'd handed it over to the EU writers with the intent that they continue the story forward, with the idea that (at least as of that time), it was pretty canonical. After all, they established a group within LFL to coordinate the stories to avoid conflicts (and avoid a cluttered, junky universe like that which grew up in the wake of all the various Star Trek novels that fit 20 years worth of adventures into the last two years of a five-year mission). And I seem to specifically remember EU authors speaking about how GL was consulted and had vetoed certain stories, or told them things they could or could not cover (for example, Yoda's background was off-limits).

    So, while I do agree with you that I don't recall George ever claiming that the EU was a literal telling of the future stories in his head, I also just don't seem to recall hearing him ever declaring the EU as apocryphal or even implying that they were inconsistent with his overall "head story" or not canon (at least not until he decided to get back into film-making with the prequels (see poor Boba Fett)), and instead he/LFL seemed to actually be making pretty-public gestures that they were taking care to keep the EU "in line with George's vision". And even when George did the prequels, he still maintained that there would be no films past Ep. VI, which could lead people to believe that at least the post-ROTJ stories would be immune from ret-conning.

    In any event, I agree with everybody here stating that wiping out the EU was not only within LFL's rights, but was the right thing to do. At the same time, I do have a small amount of sympathy for people who invested a lot of money in it to get "the next chapter in the SW story" every few months without being told at the time that it was, for lack of a better term, ultimately not worth the paper it was printed on. That's why I was curious as to whether I'd missed any public statement (before the prequels) to that effect.

    M
  8. cboath's Avatar
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    20 Hours Ago  Aug 16, 2017, 1:46 PM - Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Pre-release) #4858

    mkstewartesq said: View Post
    Bryan:

    Not sure I am getting your point here. I'm not one of those who feels betrayed the the EU was suddenly overwritten (didn't care much for the EU) - but GL made the conscious choice to slap the SW brand on all of the EU stuff and to take the money that came in from selling it. When you sell something as "legitimate goods", you don't just get a free pass when you turn around and say "well, thanks for buying it - actually I never considered it legitimate." If he didn't consider it legitimate, he could've (frankly, should've) vetoed it, rather than sells it as legitimate and then devalue it later by crapping all over it. You put your name on the goods and take the money for the goods - you should stand behind the goods to some extent, rather than just say "hey, even at the time you bought 'em. I knew they weren't legit."

    Sure, he can over-write the EU if he wants - but it doesn't change the fact that he made the choice to profit from it (quite handsomely) by portraying it as a legitimate "part of his SW story" at the time he was selling it - which supports the original point that GL's loyalties seem to shift based on whether there is some money in it for him.

    M
    You do a free pass when you categorically state you're taking one before the first book is published.

    The press release for Heir the Empire said just as much. That should LFL decide to proceed with movies post ROTJ they weren't beholden to novels in any way. They stuck that caveat in there 'just in case' because at the time there were no plans for more movies at all.

    That article is how i knew they were doing books in the first place and I read them knowing just that. Just when the jumped the shark when changing publishers and hyped the killing of Chewy before the book was out - i quit.
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    20 Hours Ago  Aug 16, 2017, 1:51 PM - Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Pre-release) #4859

    cboath said: View Post
    You do a free pass when you categorically state you're taking one before the first book is published.

    The press release for Heir the Empire said just as much. That should LFL decide to proceed with movies post ROTJ they weren't beholden to novels in any way. They stuck that caveat in there 'just in case' because at the time there were no plans for more movies at all..
    Well, then there's the answer I was looking for in my question to Bryan. I wasn't aware that that disclaimer had been made publicly from the get-go.

    Thank you,
    M
  10. halliwax's Avatar
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    18 Hours Ago  Aug 16, 2017, 4:32 PM - Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Pre-release) #4860

    I love this freak'n movie. It was on this last weekend. I think that actress is gorgeous!
  11. halliwax's Avatar
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    18 Hours Ago  Aug 16, 2017, 4:34 PM - Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Pre-release) #4861

    Just realized she's aunt may.... wicked!


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  12. matty matt's Avatar
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    17 Hours Ago  Aug 16, 2017, 4:48 PM - Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Pre-release) #4862

    I never thought the EU was canon and was totally surprised when people got upset about it.
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    16 Hours Ago  Aug 16, 2017, 6:32 PM - Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Pre-release) #4863

    matty matt said: View Post
    I never thought the EU was canon and was totally surprised when people got upset about it.
    Same here.

    In fact I grew up with the original Marvel Comics. They were fun as a kid, but when they were superceded by the Thrawn Trilogy and Dark Horse comics... no Farts were given, we just enjoyed the new stuff.

    Of course there was no Internet back then for people to complain with too..

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  14. RPF Premium Member Darth Lars's Avatar
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    15 Hours Ago  Aug 16, 2017, 7:20 PM - Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Pre-release) #4864

    NeoRutty said: View Post
    Yeah funny... I knew this for years, even reading the Zahn Trilogy, that if Lucas wanted to make more movies he could ignore everything done in the EU...
    Except that in 2005, he said publicly that there was not going to be a sequel trilogy.
    This was Lucasfilm's official message until the takeover by Disney in 2012.
    So, for seven years, Lucasfilm's policy was that the Expanded Universe's twentyone years' worth of stories was all there was ever going to be that was going to be set after ROTJ and cover the story of Luke ... and by extension: his family, which would have included also Han and Leia's family etc.

    At Celebration Europe II in July 2013, Leland Chee and Pablo Hidalgo said publicly that they were going to clean up the EU and create a single timeline that would be integrated with the new movie and all new material - not that the post-ROTJ EU was going to be thrown out.

    Then Lucasfilm turned, with the press release of April 2014 where they specified that the "EU" wasn't going to be followed and that it was going to be renamed to "Legends".

    By that time, the EU had established several much loved characters and story arcs ... over twenty years' worth of material that was going to be retconned out of existence.
    If someone promises you something and then notifies you that they can't deliver that - then you would normally expect to get something of equal or higher value in return. Instead, they got The Force Awakens, which was viewed by many fans as a huge disappointment on multiple levels.
    Is The Force Awakens with a rehashed plot and a "Mary Sue lead" worth more the over a dozen series and over a hundred books that it replaces?
    Of course, the answer is very personal - it depends on how much you have invested yourself in the books.
    For most fans the answer is probably somewhere in-between "No" and "I don't care".
    If you say "Yes", then you probably just dislike the EU -- and you should be honest about that.
    Last edited by Darth Lars; 14 Hours Ago at 8:04 PM.
  15. Sluis Van Shipyards's Avatar
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    14 Hours Ago  Aug 16, 2017, 7:57 PM - Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Pre-release) #4865

    Bryancd said: View Post
    GL also hated the EU Luke starting a new Jedi Order.
    And? What does that have to do with what I posted?
  16. BLADE and BRUSH's Avatar
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    13 Hours Ago  Aug 16, 2017, 8:52 PM - Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Pre-release) #4866

    Bryancd said: View Post
    What I mean is that he was perfectly happy accepting the licensing revenue, he just wasn't a fan of the direction those stories took. He simply felt no need to try and modify it as he didn't consider it part of "His" story.
    I'm sorry, but that's not true. A number of Timothy Zahn's ideas for the Heir to the Empire trilogy were vetoed because they might conflict with George's eventual plans for the Prequels.
  17. Greenie's Avatar
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    8 Hours Ago  Aug 17, 2017, 2:08 AM - Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Pre-release) #4867

    Personally, I much preferred the HTTE concept of clones grown too quick and being 'unstable'. The expansion of this idea suited my preconceptions much better than the frankly ridiculous clone army concept GL gave us. Maybe that could be a new thread : based only on exposition given in the OT, [what was your understanding of the clone wars, Jedi and the rise of Vader?]
  18. matty matt's Avatar
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    3 Hours Ago  Aug 17, 2017, 7:03 AM - Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Pre-release) #4868

    Greenie said: View Post
    Personally, I much preferred the HTTE concept of clones grown too quick and being 'unstable'. The expansion of this idea suited my preconceptions much better than the frankly ridiculous clone army concept GL gave us. Maybe that could be a new thread : based only on exposition given in the OT, [what was your understanding of the clone wars, Jedi and the rise of Vader?]
    I always assumed the clones would be the bad guys. I envisioned an army of Jedi versus a clone army.
  19. Member Since
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    3 Hours Ago  Aug 17, 2017, 7:36 AM - Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Pre-release) #4869

    matty matt said: View Post
    I always assumed the clones would be the bad guys. I envisioned an army of Jedi versus a clone army.
    I envisioned Keira Knightley and Natalie Portman making out.
  20. Bryancd's Avatar
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    2 Hours Ago  Aug 17, 2017, 8:02 AM - Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Pre-release) #4870

    Heavy Assault Walker toy coming out in a few weeks.
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