Beware dealing with Reel Images Leatherwear

HeyLetsRock said:

I don't think that is the case. It seems like this is a step in the right direction, taking a step back and hopefully getting all current customers taken care of and perhaps reworking the methods in which these are ordered/sold now that most of the kinks have been worked out with the design of the items. Yes, they are top quality and the best currently available, but even the "retail" run has been rife with issues mostly of "new" people not knowing about past issues. It's not their job to slog through 8 months of posts on a Facebook group, and whenever anyone vented frustrations (like the website saying they would have a suit in 12 weeks for retail, and then that clearly not ending up being the case) they are kind of attacked by others in the group with the "it's pioneering work!" argument. I have seen it time and time again.

Yes, sure, 168 people knew that, but "new" people that saw that "please allow 12 weeks from time of order" line on the website, figured they would have a suit in 12 weeks and some of them had a bad experience. I realize that issue is not related to the original issue in this thread, but it's an example of other issues people are having, so you know there are others out there. New people that aren't a member of that Judge Dredd Facebook group would have no idea that the wheel was being reinvented, so how would they know of any delays based on what was on the website? People stick with what they are told up front, so if you correctly tell them what to expect things go much better.

Taking a step back seems like it's the high road to take as it shows that it's been realized there is a problem and they appear to be taking steps to fix it. This will take care of them "suffering fools" (OUCH!) as it was put on the public Judge Dredd group recently.

Also, it seems that Chris expressed his views in a totally civil manner here in this thread and in personal message and I would be glad to know of various issues before I ordered, like the possibility that if something was wrong that I might be ignored or that it might take months for me to get replacement parts due to factory issues if I was not being ignored. Notice, I said possibility. This did happen to Chris, but of course, the same thing doesn't happen to everyone.

As for the few comments I've seen here about Chris "raging" or being "irrational"... I don't know him well, but he always had very good Dredd information to give out when asked and built some very nice items (a med pouch with hinge comes to mind). Just trying to paint a fuller picture, I don't recall much raging or irrational behavior on the Facebook group.

I don't think someone has a less valid complaint just because they told people about it on a Facebook group and it apparently incitied some type of drama (I'm pretty sure I was on the group then and I don't even remember it). What generally happens as I have seen it several times is someone civily posts a complaint or warning for other members of the Facebook group (which has hundreds of memebers), then it digresses from there as various parties comment. It's a bit different having tens of people comment on something you posted where you can't control the conversation vs. actually messaging someone privately, which appears to be totally civil and legitimate.

If one stone causes this much of a ripple...

Click to expand...

Ah OK.

I'm not on anyone's side (except the side of justice) but I am struggling to see why this hasn't been resolved already.

I don't really want to get into the middle of this either, as I am also friends with both of them. I got in on the tail of the 1st run, so I have been a part of this for awhile now. There have been many delays, all because of the factory in Pakistan. Those guys have not been able to keep a single deadline. Now, that could be due to the floods and other things such as communication, but in the end, the factory has delivered so far. I see this as a Factory issue, because Gregory Allen Chase is having all of the exact same issues with the boot run he is doing, and it is the same factory. The factory promised a 3 week delivery (1st of this month) only to find out that they were working up another prototype after Gregory approved the last one. The factory has now promised 1st of April, but I'm not holding my breath. I have no doubt I'll get them, but I've got a standby ready to go util they do arrive.

As if the factory wasn't enough, Customs in several countries flagged the shipment, checking it for all the cool toys we can't have...

It is well known that the factory directly delivered the 1st DC run directly to customers homes, and Kurt did not get a chance to do QC on them. The Factory also delivered the vests in bags.... Yes, BAGS... The pulls were inconsistent, and vests were warped and damaged because they had no protection during shipping.

As far as Kurt's message saying he was taking a break though, I think that has been misread. It says he is taking a break on future orders, not that he is closing up shop.

Attention Judges:

I hope to have my remaining suits out by month end once DC 168 vest come in. Tracking has them supposedly here next week. So the 13 males and females will be out.

Then the retail shots. After that I believe I will wrap it up for a while. It has been a real roller coaster and I have never met a better group of people.

Some recent family changes require my attention and right now Dredd is getting it all.

I'll continue to sort issues from any item out there. Just taking a breather for a bit on future orders and work on development stuff.

Thanks All

Click to expand...

As far as Chris, I totally understand where he is coming from too. I spent almost an entire year waiting for mine. And I did indeed get impatient. I also sent messages to Kurt that were not responded to. I kept my cool, even when I didn't want to and kept messaging him. Sooner or later, I always got a response, either from him or his wife. I totally get the frustration, but I believe that Kurt will come through on all of his promises. I just don't think that Kurt can give an accurate ETA on anything that the factory is involved with.

In the end, I recommend the suit. Is it absolutely ERMAGOD screen accurate? No. Can improvements be made? Sure. And, If I was paying the going price for them today, I would still be very happy with it.

neo2daz said:

Chris has posted a snap shot of the convo he and kurt had, what he hadnt posted was the quite disgusting comments and abuse Kurt had from him for a couple of weeks running up to that. Again in the interest of fairness, it has to be mentioned.

Click to expand...

I'd hate to be unfair, let's have a look through the magic of science. Weeks, you said? Let's try a few months, starting right after I received the vest but before I received the leathers.

No message is omitted.




Christopher Wailes
The elbow/knee main portions look right, but the lower part that should extend out to the sides doesn't.
Since we are cataloguing the errors.


8/26, 5:17pm
Kurt Struss
You are going to have the hardest time with all this.


8/26, 5:18pm
Christopher Wailes
For small stuff like this, I'm more than willing to put in the elbow grease to get it just right.


8/26, 5:18pm
Kurt Struss
I may heavy to contract out for the elbow and knees
Have to


8/26, 5:18pm
Christopher Wailes
I'm just bringing it to your attention so you are fully informed


8/26, 5:18pm
Kurt Struss
They are at 92% overall.

The soft armor makes me crazy.
CraZzzy


8/26, 5:19pm
Christopher Wailes
Honestly, the vest just feels rushed is all, like they slapped them together as fast as they could.


8/26, 5:20pm
Kurt Struss
Zubair is held accountable.
I have a two-step dance to do.


8/26, 5:20pm
Christopher Wailes
Roger, want any further pictures/reports from my end?


8/26, 5:20pm
Kurt Struss
Customer/train factory.
We're good. I used your updates to compile the list and mostly matched mine. There were other errors not seen that they missed.


8/26, 5:22pm
Christopher Wailes
I leave it in your capable hands.
I feel certain that these issues have arisen due to the deadline, and the fact that we missed the final golden "seal of approval" phase.
If I notice anything else major I'll let you know.


8/26, 5:25pm
Kurt Struss
Three things happened


8/26, 5:26pm
Christopher Wailes
And hey, don't let my picking of nits seem like I'm trying to tear you or this run down. We'll get it handled, and the errors fixed.


8/26, 5:27pm
Kurt Struss
1.
The buckles took a long time to perfect. Long.
2. Strapping took forever for them to GET IT. So frustrated.
3. Rushed due to buckle delay.


8/26, 5:27pm
Christopher Wailes
Well, the buckles came out shiny in any case.
They have their little idiosyncracies but for the price they are top-notch


8/26, 5:28pm
Kurt Struss
I paid $1500 over to get it right.


8/26, 5:30pm
Christopher Wailes
Damn


8/26, 5:33pm
Kurt Struss
Your getting a new vest (NOTE:I still haven't)


8/26, 5:34pm
Christopher Wailes
Thank you.
Are they going to be charging you for it?
If they end up trying to charge you extra for the replacement let me know and I'll help out as much as I can.


8/26, 6:02pm
Kurt Struss
Nope. Call, it's easier ### ### ####




August 27, 2013




8/27, 10:47am
Christopher Wailes
Heads up:
If you haven't already noted it with the armor plate placement, it looks like all the "lips" (the plastic edges that are stitched down) on our vest are MUCH wider than they are on the production vest.
Close looks at Standinman's vest shows how closely the edges are supposed to match up.
Just bringing it to your attention for corrections.


8/27, 3:49pm
Kurt Struss
Why did I receive an exception report on your suit from UPS?


8/27, 3:50pm
Christopher Wailes
Tracking system says they made an address correction.
Okay, doorbell literally just rang and i just brought it in.
Good timing.


8/27, 3:52pm
Kurt Struss
Report out mister


8/27, 4:03pm
Christopher Wailes
I have them on now. They actually fit almost perfectly. Inspected closely, and everything looks fantastic!
Pants are surprisingly comfortable. (NOTE: I was quite excited after numerous delays here and was obviously mistaken)


8/27, 4:07pm
Kurt Struss
Fix that vest
And suit up!!!!


8/27, 4:17pm
Christopher Wailes
Taking it to the Tek judges now, chief.




August 28, 2013





8/28, 4:19pm
Christopher Wailes
I've concluded that ALL the knees/elbows really need to be more screen accurate is a vinyl/leather covering over the plastic cop, under the EVA portion.
I am attempting to modify my own like this, but the EVA is glued down so well that I managed to tear one in half, so I'm going to fiddle with it and let you know what I come up with.


8/28, 4:23pm
Kurt Struss
Cool, I'm interested.




August 29, 2013




8/29, 6:10pm
Christopher Wailes
Compiled issues with my vest for you, probably the same as the others you've received for the most part.
- Vest edged in fabric, should be edged in suede material
- All armor plates with exception of spinal plates lack depth, are extremely shallow
- All armor plates are edged with fabric, there should be no such edging
- Armor plates are mounted crooked and in several cases overlapping
- Zipper is incorrect size and material
- 2” webbing attached to main back piece, lower is a different material than the rest of the 2” seatbelt straps
- Grommet in badge plate is set more than ½” out of place
- Belt loops are vinyl, should be leather
- Belt loops are in varying thicknesses and widths
- Neck roll is too wide and lacks leather edging on the forward tips
- Eagle shoulder mounted incorrectly, lower portion should fit underneath upper portion so the break is smooth
- Left shoulder cop has soft details
- Left shoulder cop is made of different plastic material than rest of plates
- Left shoulder cop is clad in a thin leather for some reason
- Bicep strap tabs are vinyl, should be leather


8/29, 6:10pm
Christopher Wailes
Let me know if you prefer this in your email and I'll send it right over.


8/29, 6:23pm
Kurt Struss
In talking with my Dredd movie friends we were lamenting mass production. They creates few hero vests for the movie and spent days on each one of 8 heroes. I'm creating this from vapor for complete retooling for mass production from the ground up. I have to go about it differently .
Create a process and assembly line. Having created several successful businesses and being movie producer: I see both sides.




September 2, 2013

(NOTE: This conversation pertains to a post Kurt made in which he seemed to be implying that people who received v1 vests would *NOT* receive replacements)



9/2, 9:26pm
Christopher Wailes
I was unclear that v2s are going out to everyone. Sorry for stirring the pot. Look forward to the next update.


9/2, 9:26pm
Kurt Struss
Oh social media, when will we be ready for you....


9/2, 9:27pm
Christopher Wailes
I get just as sucked into the microcosmic insanity of facebook as the next guy. I know better, but it still happens. Maybe I'll learn someday.


9/2, 9:32pm
Kurt Struss
I don't get sucked in. Which is why I don't openly respond to your stirring of the post. I get it.
But others will feed off what a person posts. So one would do well to comment with pause.


9/2, 9:34pm
Christopher Wailes
You are a wiser man than I. Thanks for being consistently understanding. I am endeavoring to pull back from all the facebook grouping and trying to regain some sanity and perspective. No more posts for me for a while.


9/2, 9:35pm
Kurt Struss
I think I have few more years under my belt too.


9/2, 9:36pm
Christopher Wailes
What? You mean to say I don't know everything at 26?


9/2, 9:37pm
Kurt Struss
I still don't at 51. Astounding, yes, but true.


9/2, 9:39pm
Christopher Wailes
I hope this is the start of a good working relationship between us, despite some rockiness. I am very interested in the projects you have outlined in the future. I'm on the interest list for two Gipsy Danger bomber jackets already.


9/2, 9:40pm
Kurt Struss
Wait until you see what is coming.


9/2, 9:42pm
Christopher Wailes
At this point, I think sitting quietly and waiting will be good for my ego




September 4, 2013




9/4, 8:55pm
Christopher Wailes
So con related query:
I have a local comic con at the end of Oct. Do you suppose you'll have the v2s turning out by then, or should I plan on using my v1?
Best guess is fine, I know you probably don't know for sure.
Thanks.




September 7, 2013

(NOTE: The following convo is regarding Kurt talking about new "premium" jackets with better details than the old ones, and



9/7, 10:30am
Christopher Wailes
Moving to PM to avoid all facebook related BS.


9/7, 10:30am
Christopher Wailes
I'm not suggesting it become a regular sales item you ship off to anyone who wants it, but it may be a nice gesture to sell to those of us who got in at the beginning and stuck around this entire year while things came together.
Had I known you would be releasing a better suit later on I would have just waited and bought that one.


9/7, 10:31am
Christopher Wailes
How much would you need to charge for it to be "Cost effective"? I guarantee, as long as it is LESS than the price of a whole other jacket, I would be more than willing to pay for one.


9/7, 10:32am
Kurt Struss
Non-BS mode engaged. (NOTE: Funny he recognizes normal mode as BS mode here)


9/7, 10:32am
Christopher Wailes
I'm not trying to demand answers, just saying hey, consider it?


9/7, 10:32am
Kurt Struss
It depends

I need to see where Zubair comes I'm at on costing.


9/7, 10:32am
Christopher Wailes
That makes sense


9/7, 10:32am
Kurt Struss
Our are great.


9/7, 10:33am
Christopher Wailes
I agree, but once I've seen that there ARE better, I can't stop until I have it, ya know?


9/7, 10:33am
Kurt Struss
This shoulder panel is 4 layers of construction deep.

Split construction on the wings
Highly labor intensive.


9/7, 10:34am
Christopher Wailes
No doubt, it's the sort of item I would label "premium" and I would be willing to pay premium prices for
It's just my hope that I won't have to pay premium prices for a whole new garment when I already have the base jacket in hand.


9/7, 10:35am
Kurt Struss
It would push the retail price of the jacket to $750 I'm estimating


9/7, 10:37am
Christopher Wailes
From where to $750?
I'm estimating we aren't talking the $450 pricetag, but the new retail pricetag


9/7, 10:38am
Kurt Struss
I took a bath on the offering for our group. The suit as you have it actually ended up costing $550ish final with all considered.
The retail run will be more in line with market value.
And actual cost.
I'm gone for the rest day so have a good weekend.


9/7, 10:40am
Christopher Wailes
Well like I said, I'm willing to pay whatever premium price you set for the eagle by itself.
I am more into this for a replica than a costume, and accuracy is my primary concern.
I just ask that you offer it for sale, if not generally, than on a one-off-basis for us who got the early jackets without knowing there would be an upgrade.


9/7, 10:40am
Christopher Wailes
Thanks, look forward to further developments
To be fair, I should have assumed there would be an upgrade, so don't take that as an appeal for pity, mostly me slapping myself.




September 11, 2013




9/11, 12:06pm
Christopher Wailes
With all the work I've been putting in on the vest, I honestly didn't notice this until I was going over the jacket in my closet, preparing to take it to my tailor.
I got a downright ****ty emboss job on the left shoulder. The whole lower half of the badge just completely failed to emboss any details.


9/11, 12:07pm
Christopher Wailes
Looking at it now, even the feather details on the upper half failed to emboss. Not sure what happened here, but I think just a replacement leather panel would be sufficient. I could take that to my tailor and have him swap it out.


9/11, 12:28pm
Kurt Struss
Definitely. I'll get one done up.


9/11, 12:54pm
Christopher Wailes
Thanks much.




September 15, 2013




9/15, 5:42pm
Christopher Wailes
Are the neck rolls supposed to be made of vinyl? (NOTE: They were ALL vinyl)


9/15, 5:43pm
Kurt Struss
Ummm, nope.
All mine here are leather.


9/15, 5:44pm
Christopher Wailes
the one I've got is all vinyl, unless they started making leather with a fabric backing, kind of like vinyl has.
Yep, definitely vinyl. Ribbed portion looks like a cut down tube of some sort, also vinyl.


9/15, 5:49pm
Kurt Struss
Thanks, just forwarded to Zubair.


9/15, 5:52pm
Christopher Wailes
I take it they are supposed to be made of leather. You might want to check out the ones you have, somehow I doubt I got the only vinyl neckroll.
I assume I will get a leather replacement at some point?


9/15, 6:24pm
Kurt Struss
I just double checked all mine and they are definitely leather with interfacing on the back.


9/15, 6:25pm
Christopher Wailes
I've asked around and I am definitely not the only guy who got an all vinyl neckroll.


9/15, 6:29pm
Kurt Struss
Well, at least we're not sleeping in caves tonight. (NOTE: Standard response, refusing to take responsibility or apologize)


9/15, 6:30pm
Christopher Wailes
All I'd like is an assurance that this will be addressed, preferably with a replacement of the correct type.


9/15, 6:32pm
Kurt Struss
Will see what you bear has to say about it.


9/15, 6:32pm
Christopher Wailes
you bear.
I think I like that spelling better than zubair


9/15, 6:33pm
Kurt Struss
I think everybody needs to keep in perspective that they received an $1800 suit for $450.


9/15, 6:33pm
Christopher Wailes
Kurt, the price is irrelevant.
Utterly and completely.
You picked it, so don't tell me what I need to accept or not accept. I am interested in getting the product as described.
If you want to argue you always meant to send me a vinyl neckroll, fine, but somehow I doubt it was intended.


9/15, 6:34pm
Kurt Struss
We'll see what happens tomorrow. I'm signing off for tonight
You know me, I like things to be correct.


9/15, 6:34pm
Christopher Wailes
I know you do.
But hey, if things aren't brought up and hashed out, they don't get fixed.


9/15, 6:46pm
Kurt Struss
All the stunt ones were rubber.


9/15, 6:46pm
Christopher Wailes
Cast, as I recall, right?


9/15, 6:46pm
Kurt Struss
Heavy too
Yep


9/15, 6:47pm
Christopher Wailes
Wait, I remember that, the foam was a formaldehyde foam or something, too wasn't it?


9/15, 6:47pm
Kurt Struss
Yes it was , very good.


9/15, 6:49pm
Christopher Wailes
Had to cut mine open because it felt like I was being strangled by a really weak person. Should fit alright once I sew it back up. Took out almost half the foam.


9/15, 6:49pm
Kurt Struss
Show me when you're done please.


9/15, 6:50pm
Christopher Wailes
Sure.


9/15, 6:50pm
Kurt Struss
Thanks.




September 25, 2013




9/25, 12:13pm
Christopher Wailes
So what's the scoop on the v2 replacement?


9/25, 12:48pm
Kurt Struss
It's great


9/25, 1:53pm
Christopher Wailes
Correct spacer mesh type? Suede edging? Better plate pulls? Corrected stitching? Right zipper? Corrected belt loops?


9/25, 2:00pm
Kurt Struss
I will be making some decisions for my business going forward for the product that I will be offering on my website which I feel best represents the product I'm trying to portray.


9/25, 2:05pm
Christopher Wailes
If you'll recall, you assured me that I would be receiving a replacement v2 vest, since my v1 is pretty much a mess.
That's all I'm really interested in is the quality of the v2 and when I can be expecting my replacement, complete with neckroll actually made of leather, rather than flimsy vinyl. Hell, I'd take a cast rubber neckroll.
Let me know when you know more. Thanks.


9/25, 2:06pm
Kurt Struss
Rubberneck role, yuck


9/25, 2:07pm
Christopher Wailes
It does sound like a bizarre sushi dish out of context.


9/25, 3:27pm
Christopher Wailes
Oh, and is there any information on the jacket badge? I still need a replacement for mine when it becomes possible.


9/25, 4:08pm
Kurt Struss
Yes




September 26, 2013




9/26, 10:06am
Christopher Wailes
When am I getting my vest? When am I getting my shoulder badge?
I'm tired of your bull**** runaround, and I'm tired of your internet cheering section.


9/26, 10:35am
Christopher Wailes
Believe me when I say that I want to leave you alone as much as you want me to leave you alone. I want this DONE and over with.


9/26, 10:37am
Kurt Struss
I'm going to deal with you openly in just a moment. You are irrational and out of control.


9/26, 10:37am
Christopher Wailes
Wanting answers is irrational and out of control?
Are you high?
I don't want to deal with you openly, Kurt. I don't want your internet fan club involved.
Obviously you do.
I have a right to ask you questions and get answers, do I not?
Because for a while now, all you've given me is the cold shoulder, which is more than a little rude and unprofessional.


9/26, 10:41am
Kurt Struss
You where told you would get a correct vest and badge. That is still happening.


9/26, 10:41am
Christopher Wailes
I was told that, and THEN people were told they would not. Since then I've been wondering if I still was or not.


9/26, 10:41am
Kurt Struss
Still happening.


9/26, 10:44am
Christopher Wailes
Ballpark timeframe?


9/26, 10:45am
Kurt Struss
All should be in my hands in 3 weeks. ((NOTE: three weeks as of September))
I'm still not crazy about a few details.


9/26, 10:46am
Christopher Wailes
Works for me. That's all I wanted.


9/26, 10:56am
Christopher Wailes
And if I may make a suggestion, hold off on the vests until you ARE crazy about all the details.
Well not like crazy crazy but good crazy.


9/26, 12:10pm
Christopher Wailes
Now I'm "spoiled" too. (NOTE: I was responding to a general post where he said he shouldn't have "spoiled" us with information)
You know, it's amazing how many times you've insulted me for asking you questions.
Just wanted you to know that I didn't miss your dig. Looking forward to the conclusion of this whole deal.


9/26, 1:17pm
Christopher Wailes
In the interest of complete fairness, no matter my irritation, I need to apologize to you for the "bull****" remark both public and private.
It was inappropriate, and a manifestation of my own frustration with this whole process.
In the context of the thread, it is basically trolling, and I try not to troll, so I am sorry about that. (NOTE: Here I apologize for calling his response bull**** in public)

((NOTE: An entire month passes with no communication))

November 7, 2013


Christopher Wailes
11/7, 8:11am
Christopher Wailes
So, replacement vest and replacement jacket panel. What's the scoop?


And that makes us current.

I invite Daz Wildman, Kurt Struss, or really anyone to post transcripts, logs, or excerpts that demonstrate my irrationality and "keyboard warrior" ways.

In fact, I hope they do.

- - - Updated - - -

sithpig said:

In the end, I recommend the suit. Is it absolutely ERMAGOD screen accurate? No. Can improvements be made? Sure. And, If I was paying the going price for them today, I would still be very happy with it.

Click to expand...

Did you look at the initial post?

We aren't talking about being upset for not being perfect, I'm upset because I got a product that is *MEASURABLY INFERIOR* to the products others received.

with respect, this all happened last year (not sure when you joined) also there was another rant recently (during your sabatical) therefore you wouldnt see them, they were also removed by the group mods

Click to expand...

I don't see why Chis's past behavior is even an issue at this point, regardless of whether he's a saint or a maniacal ******* is irrelevant. He didn't start this thread as a RI bashing thread, he just simply laid out his current/past experience and warned any future buyer. To me, it seemed like Kurt was unable to take criticism as he took it personal and threatened to sue, why was that necessary? As HEYLETSROCK mentioned, the new individuals to the DREDD build group aren't aware of the previous hassles associated with the delivery of the suits. Personally, if I were going to shell out one thousand for a suit and expect a long waiting time, I would expect that if there were an issue with the delivery, any problems would be dealt with immediately rather than waiting 8+ months. In fact this posting should be displayed on the FB page as a review for the suits, along with the positive reviews as well.

I know why you are upset. I already said I wasn't taking sides. I will even go as far as saying that the embossing on my jacket came out much better than yours did. I never said you didn't have a reason to want what was promised. I do think you will get it too. Just not any time soon, unfortunately.

I don't think I'll get it at all.

While I have "no dog in this fight," I feel that there is merit on both sides of the dispute. Sometimes when people get in over their head in business endeavors, it is an overwhelming whirlpool of issues that a "one man band" simply can't deal with without a staff of paid trouble shooters to assist him. It is the unanticipated events like this "monkey wrench" that gums up a smooth roll out for a new business. People find themselves in a quagmire that is not easily remedied. I agree that Kurt did the right thing by stepping back to resolve what is probably way more than this one issue. Dealing with a foreign factory in a new relationship is also daunting. Still, commitments need to be kept and ultimately the customer/ business relationship needs to be repaired with follow through. I think that the comment on expectation is fair as well. It seems that every early run has it's share of issues. That sometimes applies to automobiles as well as the leathers here and Leather Next Dredd gloves, which have evolved over time. Even Boeing's composit plane has had recall issues. That said, sometimes new businesses, especially "shoe string start-ups" are not equipped to handle complaints of a finicky nature. Okay, don't have $500 invested here but can I just say, from the viewpoint of someone who spent at least that amount for off the shelf leathers, hacked the bottom of the pants off because they wouldn't fit inside the boots with the bulk of leather, had the jacket shortened and new zipper installed in the jacket because it was too long and ultimately don't have the embossed shoulders at all.......those unworthy leathers look pretty good, I'd take them in a heartbeat. If you also got the vest (which I labored over for a couple of months, forming kydex plates and hand sewing them to the spacer mesh.) that is a freaking bargain! Sometimes it is worth while for one's own sanity, to take a step back and realize that you are a pretty fortunate guy, all things considered. As I understand it, the whole shebang was half of the current cost. I've said this before in other threads....." show me the fan who has an exact copy of the iconic Judge boots and I'll show you a guy who has way too much money in the bank." Because you will likely never be able to find anyone to make a perfect replica of those boots for a reasonable price, a perfect replica costume is probably not in most of our futures. I've modified my own boots twice and still not completely happy. They also suck to walk in because they are modified motocross boots made for riding, not walking. So, while I know the pain of not meeting expectations, I also know that our expectations can destroy the fun of this whole endeavor. I hope that KS can fix the issue to your satisfaction while at the same time pointing out that you got a killer deal. Keep smiling, life is too short to eat yourself up over the small stuff.

Kurt1962 said:

Chris,
Further, I'm sure the fan base here would love to read about how you called all the happy suit owners an ass-kissing fan club.

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Actually, Kurt, they may be more interested in reading about how *you* called them ass-kissers.

Having now gone over the logs, I referred to them as a "Cheering section" and as an "Internet fan-club"

I'm not sure where you got ass-kisser from.

In retrospect, my attitude toward you has been remarkably calm, considering how infuriated I remember being.

EDIT: Everyone, please take note that Kurt has amended his first post to remove his threats of filing a slander suit. Whether or not he will attempt to sue me for libel and defamation remains to be seen, though I do hope he is better at taking criticism than that.

As a person that has no vested interest into this, I have been part of this process since almost day one. I was in the Dredd FB group when this process began and I can certainly sympathize with anyone who got a sub bar suit from the initial run.

I know many people who are still waiting for MANY elements of this costume to be completed. I know many people who have received items where they don't feel that they got the level of quality that they should have. Sub par helmets, law givers, leathers, and so on.

The thing that we all have to remember is that this started as a fan group of people who wanted Judge costumes. With the initial and non accurate "Leather Next" option being close to $1000, we were all more than happy to jump all over $450, knowing that we were taking a risk. Not knowing what the final product would look like. Think of this as a buy in commission rather than a purchase from a company. Kurt used his connections to put this all together. The price quoted was for a wholesale run of leathers and armor with no profit to be made. When the end cost ended up being more, Kurt dug into his own pocket to see the project through and protect his own reputation. A man of his word.

How many runs have happened on the RPF or other places where it all falls through, you never get your item or you money back and the person just disappears? Kurt has stood here, is weathering the storm, doing what he can to see it all through. In spite of back injuries, family stuff, etc... sure those are not excuses, but he didn't start as a business. He started just like all of us as fans.

In projects like this, where the quality control is often out of your hands, there is bound to be issues.

Why were there issues so early on? Because people wanted their suits for D*Con. When this project started, even I knew that the likeliness of everyone getting their suits on time and to the level of quality that they were expecting was unreasonable. Hell, I was personally amazed that there were 45 people who actually got it done, considering the adversity and issues along the way.

Kurt has said that he will make it right and I have no reason to doubt that. Where I see the problem though for anyone who is upset is that he isn't making it right, to your level, on your time frame. Anyone who bought in on that $450 took the risk. I have had many of conversations with people who all said the same thing "We know it's a risk, but for $450, what the hell"

My suggestion is to continue being patient and understand that a mass produced product will not have every single screen accurate detail that you expect. Certainly not for $450. Certainly not for $1000. Be realistic that some things will have to be modded.

I don't know any company that has perfect accuracy unless they are charging significantly more than $450. Even Anovos, who IMO has some of the better quality stuff that I have seen hasn't been without their issues.

At the end of the day, if it's made right... if you get what was promised, then that speaks volumes for the person who ran the project or had the product made.

Zendragon said:

Kurt has stood here, is weathering the storm, doing what he can to see it all through. In spite of back injuries, family stuff, etc... sure those are not excuses, but he didn't start as a business. He started just like all of us as fans.

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If that were true, this thread would not exist.

This thread exists because he attempted to cease communication with me immediately after I politely requested a status update.

Furthermore, the only email I've ever received from him was an automated payment receipt from paypal from February 1, 2013, when he got my money.

Zendragon said:

My suggestion is to continue being patient and understand that a mass produced product will not have every single screen accurate detail that you expect. Certainly not for $450. Certainly not for $1000. Be realistic that some things will have to be modded.

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I haven't even brought up screen accuracy. Believe me, if I wanted to talk about screen accuracy this thread would be a LOT longer.

I'm talking about product defects.

I received a product that is measurably inferior to other products on the run. Other people have since received superior products to mine despite promises that I would be taken care of almost half a year ago.

Let me restate that, I received a faulty prototype of the product that others are receiving now. This does not constitute a failure to meet unreasonable expectations, this constitutes a failure to meet very basic, simple expectations. In fact, it constitutes a failure to uphold multiple promises.

I can appreciate your diplomatic position, but I feel like you are talking about a situation other than the one quite clearly described.

Zendragon said:

At the end of the day, if it's made right... if you get what was promised, then that speaks volumes for the person who ran the project or had the product made.

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Unfortunately, at this point it is too late to make anything right. The wrong has been done, and all I seek now is to make others aware of it.

I expect to receive nothing from Kurt Struss or Reel Images Leatherwear in the future. He made his intentions quite clear, and I consider our dealings closed.

The purpose of this thread, again, is simply to make the community aware of my experiences so that they can make educated judgements in the future.

I'd rather know if someone has an issue producing quality before i hand over my cash and it seems like, at least on here, Chris is the only one to really mention issues. I wouldn't call it ganging up on Kurt, we're pointing out bad business issues that hurt people. 500.00 is a lot to have something with that poor of quality.

I probably should point out, to those not planning to simply put this on a mannequin, as a side note, embossing on leather which is usually die formed with steam, is not totally permanent and will deform and even flatten out with exposure to water, including perspiration. If yours is the way you want it, it is best to treat the leather with a waterproofing agent to avoid eventual deformation from rain or perspiration. Also, though I know the best solution is getting a replacement made, Chris, and I hope that does eventually happen. If you are convinced that will never happen, and want to fix the problem yourself, it isn't impossible. You will have to take the pieces off and lay them on a good copy machine or scanner. the copy you make will not be good enough without using a light ink or paint to define the outline of the embossing. If you are good with computer graphics, you can do that in the computer and add in the bits that were not embossed. Use the final diagram as a stencil and glue it to a piece of styrene plastic. Use a pair of scissors or a metal snip to cut out the pieces of the feathers, etc. that are missing detail. Glue or double back tape the styrene pieces (which should be at least 1/16 TO 1/8" thick) to a backer sheet. You first will have to trim each piece around the edges by taking 1/16" off each. That leaves enough space for the embossing in the 1/8" groove between pieces. You can then wet the leather, ONLY ON THE PORTION NEEDING EMBOSSING, with isopropyl alcohol (rubbing alcohol). The cheap stuff is fine; it has a higher water content, the alcohol just helps dry the leather sooner. After wetting the part needing the embossing, place your embossing template under the leather. On top of the leather place a piece of 1/4" to 1/2" eva or other stiff foam and put a slab of wood on top ( try to avoid placing the wood and weight on already embossed portions). stand on it a couple minutes or put a stack of books or other heavy weight on it. when you take the foam off you should have an embossment . Finish by using a hair dryer to dry that area. Perfect? Probably not, since you probably won't be satisfied with anything less, from the sound of it, but likely better that it looks currently. I don't know how sophisticated the factory was when they originally made these but they probably didn't likely use a machined cnc'd die to emboss these with a steam press but probably (as funny as it sounds) used a similar procedure to what I described with some 100 lb guy standing on a board doing four at a time. By the way, you may have heard that most of Pakistan doesn't really like us to begin with but are happy to take our money. Pakistan excells at doing cheap leather goods but custom work with great customer service, I'm not so sure. In Kurt's defense, he's probably had his hands full trying to get the quality up to par. Those people probably can't understand why these fussy people aren't totally pleased. Something Kurt should be doing, that , unfortunately, does increase costs,is to have every suit shipped to himself for quality control. He clearly has a myriad of problems that are because he is leaving that up to a bunch of scurrilous types who are cost cutting at their own discretion by substituting vinyl for leather and have zero quality control. Kurt may be curtailing orders to pressure changes at the factory in order to fix "issues". Stopping the money is the best way to achieve compliance. Most large companies have a representative who visits the factory to ensure quality. Lacking that, you can't do a "trust me" and assume your customers are getting their due. His comment about not breaking even on the first batch probably is true as the price doesn't leave room for profit, especially when do overs are needed. The factory probably wants money from Kurt's pocket, in advance to supply the replacement. He likely doesn't presently have enough sway at the factory to pressure them to do the corrections at their expense. Not defending him or his business practice, just explaining the hole he's probably in. Good luck Chris. I know it is a bitter pill that others ended up with a better result, just know that you still got a lot for the money, albeit imperfect. I've had to fix aspects of my shoulder armor from another member that didn't fill the bill and I had to modify that. Just be aware going forward, that most of the stuff out there doesn't meet our standards but our excitement over rides our better sense to ask for picture proof from our peers first. I always assume that whatever I buy will need work of some type. Occasionally I get surprised by something like the excellent Lawgiver I got from Joe and Shaun.

Cool tutorial on leather embossing! I'd love to see that in a separate thread so that it doesn't get lost here.

It actually is fairly comprehensive. I'd edit and format it a bit and make a post about it, I'm sure it will be helpful to aspiring Dredd costumers in general.

In any case, it was not my desire to engage in any sort of long, drawn out series of recriminations. I wanted to go ahead and clear any misconceptions about my behavior based on vague insinuations of misconduct.

My interest in this matter is concluded, so I leave it to you.

As the thread title states: Beware.

Wes R said:

I'd rather know if someone has an issue producing quality before i hand over my cash and it seems like, at least on here, Chris is the only one to really mention issues. I wouldn't call it ganging up on Kurt, we're pointing out bad business issues that hurt people. 500.00 is a lot to have something with that poor of quality.

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$500 is a lot to some but a steal to others. Price average, off the shelf leathers....just the jacket and pants. We are talking over $500 for something that doesn't come close to filling the bill. That doesn't begin to include vest, collar, elbows, knees, shoulder bells....seriously, try to get anything like that made yourself for $450. I think my vest cost cost about $150 and I made most of it myself. The Leathernext stuff mentioned by Zendragon is just the jacket and pants. This is not to dictate wheather Chris should have an expectation of better, I just think people should be pragmatic. That set was a steal and I say that without being capable of spending that amount. I once bought a "Gladiator movie style steel helmet" years ago. The helmet had a crooked visor. It looked terrible. I complained and was lucky to have the company send another. When it arrived, a different part was dented. These helmets were made in India. No quality control at all. The helmet was $250. Luckily, the company sent it before I had returned the first. I had to improvise quickly but I ground off the riveted visor on the first and second and, after swapping visors, welded both back in place. Then I returned the second helmet. This fix wasn't too tough but I learned early on that limited edition stuff made in third world sweat shops is far from perfect. Point being, expect less than advertised and you will not be disappointed. Sometimes knowing that others have a better product but paid double for that is some consolation. Everything is relative, if you pay what it cost for the movie prop originally, you would rightly be disappointed. I've heard of movie costumes being commissioned that cost $50,000 for a single piece. I have no clue what Dredd's cost but I'm sure that they commissioned over a dozen copies in stunt and hero and background and even so paid way more than the $4000 that some bought them for at auction. Some folks would do well to become familiar with just the cost of leather. I've bought enough to do a small number of items , paying as much as $130 for a small piece about 1/3 of a lamb skin. In conclusion, moderating expectations, and having perspective on the cost versus end result is surely a factor in any purchase. If a person says I can buy their car for $500 dollars will I be surprised if the paint is scratched when it is delivered? On the other hand, if it is $30,000 I would expect more. I don't know if it is just this one issue or if Kurt is afraid that he'll be obligated to fix a hundred more out of his own pocket, but since he did commit to replacing that piece, if possible, he should follow through. I say, if possible because technically he is not in total control of that factory. His only leverage is to sever relations with them since he is probably paying for work in advance as a wholesale buyer without a line of credit. Question is, will they ship those pieces even if he pays them. I would hope something along those lines is the case and not "am I throwing good money after bad on something I've already lost money on." When he went from "I'm just a fan trying to help myself and other fans" to "I'm now a company making a profit". He just transitioned to a customer service role that will affect the future of that company. I hope that the long term result is that both sides can be assuaged.

stormtrooperguy said:

Cool tutorial on leather embossing! I'd love to see that in a separate thread so that it doesn't get lost here.

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Thanks. Well, I'm lucky to tie my shoes, let alone moving threads. Wish I had more time but I'm still putting finishing touches on my Dredd gear for Emerald City Comicon....a couple weeks left...only reason I found this was because I was headed to your pics I refer to in another thread you answered, to detail my gear. Thanks again for that. Everything has a purpose, I heard in this thread that someone is having Judge boots made....never would have known since I don't do facebook. Anyway, I am hoping if anyone else wants to try the embossing themselves, they won't fear trying. By the way, coating the back side with pva can help retain the embossing and painting a waterproofing on existing embossing will resist deformation when you wet the new embossed area, protecting it from the moisture exposure.

Actually Chris,

From what I read in your post and text transcripts, it seems like maybe you just kept contacting the guy after he had already said he would be replacing your suit. I can't speak for Kurt, I don't know all the details, so I won't even assume, but I have had people bug me so much after I had already answered something that I just have to not reply. Work still needs to be done and the more time spent answering the same question, the less time there is to respond to others, get actual work done, etc...

Everything that I have read here, even Kurt's own words is that he will make good on his promise to replace your defective and or faulty stuff.

Anyway, it seems that you have stated your experiences and others have chimed in. So people can make their own judgements from there. It is unfortunate that you feel the way that you do. I would personally love to see some resolution, but that takes all parties being willing to discuss and work through it in an adult manner, putting tempers aside.

I hope that something positive can still come from this and wish you luck.

I've been watching this thread just as a curious outsider. I have nothing against neither Kurt or Chris especially since I don't personally know either of them.....so here's my prediction:
After seeing more details come to light I feel in my gut that Kurt will eventually come thru regardless of everything said and done here. Does Chris have a right to be upset?.....or course he does. I just think Kurt handled the situation wrong which opened the floodgates of suspicion that Chris felt he wasn't going to get what he paid for. Cutting off communication completely was the biggest mistake. I know first hand how customers can at times be annoying and demanding and perhaps Kurt is having issues with other things in his life including his business which can add to stress and can test ones patience and temper especially if your a one man show. I too have somewhat been down this road in certain ways with my customers and the last thing I hate doing is explaining everything in my personal life to them of whats going on......the only difference is I've never completely cut off communication which only increases the problem if you do.......Its not the best way to handle people but time and time again I see guys doing business who fall back on this sort of "quick fix" to alleviate the pressure they might be feeling which only makes things worse, which to many can also be perceived as the first red flag on the road to getting screwed over. Dealing with some customers can be very stressful at times, pressure is not something I enjoy but eventually I've taken care of my customers ever though it didn't happen as fast as they wanted it to.
I'm not making excuses for Kurt.......from what I read here I feel he needs better quality control over his products, the "defects" should have been noticed and Chris' Jacket never should have been sent out in the first place. But dealing with overseas companies can add to the problems. I've looked at Kurts products and even though I'm not into costumes, it looks like a good product and I think he'll do well if he can get things under control. Somehow in my gut I don't see him sabotaging everything over this after hes gone to all this trouble of getting a new company off the ground.......I just don't think he's handled things well regardless of how he feels about Chris. He can choose to never deal with Chris again in the future if he chooses to but he should fix his customers problem for now....which I feel he will eventually.

Thats my gut feeling...if I'm right or wrong..only time will tell.

OK, Chris has had his say and Kurt has had his. At this point we have a lot of "I don't have a dog in this fight posts" that are only going to serve to egg on an already unfortunate situation. As Zendragon pointed out... projects of this nature ALWAYS include an element of risk. This is not WalMart or some large corporation. These are hobbyists, who often take on big projects, sometimes getting in over their heads (we have seen it countless times here on the site, even from seasoned people), while trying to provide a product to the fans. With that said, I am not giving anyone a pass as anyone who takes money is also taking on responsibility and a commitment to their customers. However, there has to be give and take on both sides.

Buyers, know what you are getting into and be willing to accept the risks involved. Accept that problems are almost an inevitability.

Sellers, be responsible to your customers and make sure your lines of communication are open and that your communication is often.

Beyond that, at this time, there is no point in allowing the thread to fester further. Closing this one down.