Thanks that would be really good if you could, though I have no idea what Mune put on my label (though I had asked it to say it was a model kit - which it is), perhaps this is all he put and that is what actually made it contentious?
Blade Runner Blaster news: model kit version of the Tomenosuke Blaster is coming
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androidandy
Sr Member
Aren't the UK laws against any replica gun that could look like a real gun? That is why Coyle shipped his in separate boxes with unrelated parts disassembled so when x-rayed they wouldn't look anything like a a gun at all, and why toy guns are against the law there too (unless they look totally ridiculous any way). I would say considering how these things look, I would count "myself" as the lucky exception if my gun came through, and be careful pointing out that they did, because they could still be seized as the law seems to have read before. Maybe the laws have relaxed since they first went on the books, but I had heard some crazy stories of nerf guns being seized, as well as a bunch of the other BR gun kits. I really hope that somewhere along the process here, you get someone with some compassion and common sense that will be on your side. Unfortunately the Stanford Prison experiment shows how easily power can go to someones head.
Andy
Andy
Exactly. i read through the law a couple years ago when I was thinking of relocating to the UK and it doesn't matter at all what it's made of. The important thing is what is LOOKS like. As the law calls it a "realistic imitation firearm" can be deemed as such if you need to do a close inspection to tell whether or not it's a real firearm. Honestly, if you want to be hard about it, the PKD is borderline in that regard. Anyone that knows a little about guns will see the ORANGE grips and general fatness of it and understand that it's not a real working firearm, but on the other hand, you can take a black piece of pipe and duct tape it to a piece of wood and an old lady with so-so eyesight will think it's a weapon.
If it were me, I'd strongly point out to it having ORANGE grips and being much "fatter" than a real firearm. Also mention the LED LIGHTS on the sides and point out that it's from a "futuristic science fiction film" or something. If they bring up the fact that it has the STEYR logo on the side (i.e. a real weapons manufacturer) point out that prop makers often use "scrapped parts cobbled together" when making sci-fi weapons.
Another idea might be to send them a couple real sci-fi-looking posters from Blade Runner, showing off that it isn't from anything "real". Note however, that since Tomenosuke likely don't have any license to repro Steyr or Bulldog parts, there IS a chance (however slim) that customs might start ANOTHER fight about the "copyright nature" of the prop. (On the other hand, you could then point to the whole Stormtrooper bucket conflict where AA IS allowed to make unlicensed copies in the UK...)
I mentioned a few pages up as well that if you read the exact wording of the VCRA law, it's rather unclear whether or not a replica in KIT form falls under the law or not. Even IF a PKD ends up being regarded as a RIF, it might not actually be so in KIT form. For all they know, you were never even going to BUILD it... to preserve its value.
Another thing I also mentioned earlier- since this is a KIT, customs also don't know if you were planning on painting a large part of it in a BRIGHT COLOR- something that will also negate its status as a RIF.
Finally... do you have a lot of replicas? Do you have them photographed online anywhere, such as yourprops.com?
if so, you could TRY to claim that you were obtaining it for a n online museum/gallery (something that IS a valid defense for importing a RIF...)
Hope these ideas are helpful to you but again, as Andy says... it matters NOT if it's made of plastic. What matters is what it LOOKS like. Good luck, and please keep us informed!
If all else fails... why not contact a newspaper or two... "Scifif fan gets toy ray-gun confiscated" might well cause a stirr as to what tax money is being used for...
If it were me, I'd strongly point out to it having ORANGE grips and being much "fatter" than a real firearm. Also mention the LED LIGHTS on the sides and point out that it's from a "futuristic science fiction film" or something. If they bring up the fact that it has the STEYR logo on the side (i.e. a real weapons manufacturer) point out that prop makers often use "scrapped parts cobbled together" when making sci-fi weapons.
Another idea might be to send them a couple real sci-fi-looking posters from Blade Runner, showing off that it isn't from anything "real". Note however, that since Tomenosuke likely don't have any license to repro Steyr or Bulldog parts, there IS a chance (however slim) that customs might start ANOTHER fight about the "copyright nature" of the prop. (On the other hand, you could then point to the whole Stormtrooper bucket conflict where AA IS allowed to make unlicensed copies in the UK...)
I mentioned a few pages up as well that if you read the exact wording of the VCRA law, it's rather unclear whether or not a replica in KIT form falls under the law or not. Even IF a PKD ends up being regarded as a RIF, it might not actually be so in KIT form. For all they know, you were never even going to BUILD it... to preserve its value.
Another thing I also mentioned earlier- since this is a KIT, customs also don't know if you were planning on painting a large part of it in a BRIGHT COLOR- something that will also negate its status as a RIF.
Finally... do you have a lot of replicas? Do you have them photographed online anywhere, such as yourprops.com?
if so, you could TRY to claim that you were obtaining it for a n online museum/gallery (something that IS a valid defense for importing a RIF...)
Hope these ideas are helpful to you but again, as Andy says... it matters NOT if it's made of plastic. What matters is what it LOOKS like. Good luck, and please keep us informed!
If all else fails... why not contact a newspaper or two... "Scifif fan gets toy ray-gun confiscated" might well cause a stirr as to what tax money is being used for...
Looks awesome Dave....
Carl
Carl
That is nuts. Our gun laws are more strict here in OZ than the UK but my metal Coyle kit made it through customs here with no dramas. I had my B709 form ready in case but it wasn't even asked for. I'm so tempted to order one of these if there are any left. I assume Nwerke that you got yours with no issues?
When I fill in the application here in OZ for our B709 import permits, I give as full a description of the gun as I can. The application has to be sent to our state police weapons licensing branch and they send me the permit.
For the Coyle one (though I didn't need the permit) I had something like
"It is an unassembled model kit (or replica) of a prop gun used in the Blade Runner movie. While some parts are made of a metal alloy, these parts are quite soft. This replica also has moving parts but it could in no way be made to fire a live round. The barrel is also plugged for 2/3 of it's length. When assembled this does not resemble any real world gun. It is intended for display only as part of a private replica prop collection."
With other resin replicas even ones that look more like real guns I've said
"It is a solid cast resin pistol prop replica of the gun used in "movie XYZ". It has no (or few) moving parts, cannot be made to chamber or fire any sort of ammuninition". It is intended for display only as part of a private replica prop collection."
Where I thought necesssary I've gotten very specific. I've also included links to pictures of the prop on occasions.
Here in OZ in my state, the fact that is a non-firing replica is the main thing. As soon as it can fire something (anything) it becomes a problem. If it looks like a real gun or is based on one, I usually need a permit to import though nothing is needed to buy a replica locally. Also non-firing replicas do not require a licence to keep in my state. I cannot however seem to get them to let me import a replica of a select fire weapon as that is a different class of gun.
For the Coyle one (though I didn't need the permit) I had something like
"It is an unassembled model kit (or replica) of a prop gun used in the Blade Runner movie. While some parts are made of a metal alloy, these parts are quite soft. This replica also has moving parts but it could in no way be made to fire a live round. The barrel is also plugged for 2/3 of it's length. When assembled this does not resemble any real world gun. It is intended for display only as part of a private replica prop collection."
With other resin replicas even ones that look more like real guns I've said
"It is a solid cast resin pistol prop replica of the gun used in "movie XYZ". It has no (or few) moving parts, cannot be made to chamber or fire any sort of ammuninition". It is intended for display only as part of a private replica prop collection."
Where I thought necesssary I've gotten very specific. I've also included links to pictures of the prop on occasions.
Here in OZ in my state, the fact that is a non-firing replica is the main thing. As soon as it can fire something (anything) it becomes a problem. If it looks like a real gun or is based on one, I usually need a permit to import though nothing is needed to buy a replica locally. Also non-firing replicas do not require a licence to keep in my state. I cannot however seem to get them to let me import a replica of a select fire weapon as that is a different class of gun.
BeastMaster
Well-Known Member
Description says 'Tomenosuke blaster kit (display replicas)' the box was also opened and contents clearly man-handled/inspected.
I've actually gone through a route called Restoration, so not having to go through civil proceedings. You have to state that you accept that the item was lawfully seized, but contest the seizure. You have to provide all your evidence to the contrary in writing and provide supporting evidence. So thank you guys for putting up pictures for me and providing me with support.
Whats really quite alarming about the Notice of seizure is the fact it warns that further seizures can actually result in an unlimited fine or up to 7 years imprisonment.
So it's kind beginning to feel like a very thin line where props are concerned and what might be termed Realistic Imitation Firearm.
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Whats really quite alarming about the Notice of seizure is the fact it warns that further seizures can actually result in an unlimited fine or up to 7 years imprisonment.
So it's kind beginning to feel like a very thin line where props are concerned and what might be termed Realistic Imitation Firearm.
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So it would appear it comes down to the eye of the beholder?!?!
tobor
Active Member
Hi guys, I’ve had mine seized as well, got the letter today.
I think I’ll go down the restoration path myself, as I don’t want to go through civil proceedings, as there is very little chance I’ll get it, according to the police who gave me a visit today.
The reason it was seized is that their firearms expert says it can be converted into a real gun.
The police came to check me out, but one look at all the props and models in my display cabinets and they were happy I wasn’t trying to make a real firearm.
I will send in letter asking for it to be returned. But as an expert has already told them it can be made into a real gun, I don’t think I can convince them otherwise.
I think I’ll go down the restoration path myself, as I don’t want to go through civil proceedings, as there is very little chance I’ll get it, according to the police who gave me a visit today.
The reason it was seized is that their firearms expert says it can be converted into a real gun.
The police came to check me out, but one look at all the props and models in my display cabinets and they were happy I wasn’t trying to make a real firearm.
I will send in letter asking for it to be returned. But as an expert has already told them it can be made into a real gun, I don’t think I can convince them otherwise.
You are kidding!!!
tobor
Active Member
Hi Marv,
I was a little surprised when two police officers turned up at my house.
As soon as they saw my collection they realised the situation, and explained why they were there and why the kit was seized. They were only in my house for about five minutes.
They said I could try and get it back, but they didn’t hold out much hope.
I think I will ask that if it can’t be sent to me, can it be returned to Japan. That way some of the money could be refunded.
I was a little surprised when two police officers turned up at my house.
As soon as they saw my collection they realised the situation, and explained why they were there and why the kit was seized. They were only in my house for about five minutes.
They said I could try and get it back, but they didn’t hold out much hope.
I think I will ask that if it can’t be sent to me, can it be returned to Japan. That way some of the money could be refunded.
From Document C2-25A - Firearms Import Policy - HM Revenue & Customs
6.15.1 Readily convertible
The Firearms Act 1982 established the criteria for determining whether an imitation or replica firearm is readily convertible (to fire a shot bullet or missile). A firearm is regarded as “readily convertible” if:
• it can be converted or adapted without any special skill on the part of the person converting it, and
• the work involved does not require equipment or tools other than those in common use by persons carrying out works of construction or maintenance in their own homes.
Sounds to me like the "firearms expert" that said these were easily convertible into firing weapons was a w a n k e r and you guys have got a case!
6.15.1 Readily convertible
The Firearms Act 1982 established the criteria for determining whether an imitation or replica firearm is readily convertible (to fire a shot bullet or missile). A firearm is regarded as “readily convertible” if:
• it can be converted or adapted without any special skill on the part of the person converting it, and
• the work involved does not require equipment or tools other than those in common use by persons carrying out works of construction or maintenance in their own homes.
Sounds to me like the "firearms expert" that said these were easily convertible into firing weapons was a w a n k e r and you guys have got a case!
I'm not going to give up hope on it. My letter went to them yesterday. This is on the form 12A it says to refer to re Restoration:
If they offer to restore a seized thing, it will normally be on payment of a fee, which will vary depending on the specific circumstances. They may also ask you to pay any duty and/or VAT due. If you accept the offer and comply with any conditions related to it, the seized thing can be returned to you.
Perhaps the fee will be large?
Yep. No form requested.
So you HAVE to fight this, in other words! If Restoration fails, you have to take civil action as to not win this leaves you in a position where you can be imprisoned on a whim. All that needs to happen is that any of your future imports are ALSO unjustly seized...since we've seen their standards are crap, it's not something I'd be comfortable allowing to stand as a record.
Yes. Vague rules allowing varied interpretations are sometimes a problem but as Dave posted, that's not the case here which leaves arbitrary misapplication of quite clear rules. The ones that are inspected and let through are those which were inspected by an officer who knows his or her job. The ones being stopped, not so much. Doubtless they don't want to appear wrong so will fight their corner...if people have documented examples of their blasters being okayed by other UK customs officers that could be important...
Don't take that as gospel. Most likely this is a well-intentioned, honest mistake. There is no reason a Customs agent shouldn't change his mind if he looks like a fool for not doing so. Get the name of this claimed firearms expert and have him explain how a plastic solid barrel can be turned into a gun. It's so ludicrous that as Dave says, sounds like a case to me right there.
Should be no more than reasonable cost recovery, but may be detailed somewhere on their web pages.
