More details on the Vader ROTJ saber - Please archive

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Brevin Din-Shay wrote:
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Darf, great pic, and another great topic. I really don't think the grips are metal, even despite the fact that your compelling pic shows what appears to be chipped metal.
If these are the same grips that were from the famous "MK ANH T-track" find, I found it hard to believe. The ends are completely different. Again, pics coming up to compare!
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First, thanks for the compliment,
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but it's not my pic. KL posted it earlier in the thread, hosted on his server. I just reposted the same pic after noticing that silver spot on the grip.

If I'm not mistaken, T-Track isn't sold in small sections like the grips used to convert sabers. It's used in cabinets, so I think it would come in long rods (get yer mind outta the gutter
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) if it was of the metal variety, or in rolls if it's of a more flexible type.

Perhaps Steveday can clear that up, since he works for a company that produces T-Track.

I think the material would have to be custom cut by the end-user for whatever application they wanted to use the T-Track. Whatever end profile you see may have been done by Bapty's (in the case of ANH) or ILM. (in the case of ROTJ)

So if what's in the pic isn't painted metal chipping, what is it?


On a side note, I thought the Luke ANH and Vader ROTJ grips had the same profile. EDC markets them as one and the same. Is it simply because they're "close enough" or is there another reason?
 
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edit: I've put this message into a table, so that you don't have to scroll left and right to read it.

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DARTH SABER wrote:
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Hmmm, any idea what that white tube (or whatever it is) under the silver button might be??
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Oh, that bit. I don't know, but it appears in at least one other photo too. It almost looks semi-transparent, as you can see through it slightly.

Looking at that area, I just discovered something that supports my theory about the "button" being a tire valve. I'll post a photo in a short while, as I have to go pick up my wife from work now.

...

Okay, here's something to look at and discuss:

Vader_Button_Enhanced.jpg


The thread down the center of the button is clear enough, but there are highlights around the shaft that also look like a thread.

First of all, looking at the highlights and shadows on the photo, it looks like there is one light to the right and one to the left. Then there's the camera flash that's most prominent on the forward facing parts of the saber.

Being that the inside of the tube is relatively dark, and the lip of the hole that faces away from the camera has no direct light shining onto it, I was expecting to see a dark reflection of the dark lip and the inside of the tube.

Instead there are highlights and shadows around the circumference of the button shaft, which resemble a thread.

Compare that with the tire valves I had a few months ago, and they look very similar.

Vader_Tire_Valve.jpg


Does anyone have any clearer photos of this area? The enhanced image is part of "dv_ls_rotj_02.jpg". Great set of photos whoever took those!


Steve

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About the grips, even if they're not the same as MK's metal T-Track, that doesn't establish much about them not being metal. There are many different profiles of metal T-Track.

I'm just wondering, are the grips plastic or metal? I don't recall this being discussed before, and from that latest pic that David posted, it appears to be metal. The scratches, and black rubbing off in the corners between the base and the "ridge" is pretty convincing to me.


BTW, THANK YOU DAVID for showing that it wasn't a Graflex bottom. I got a top as a freebie from Howard (Thanks bud!!
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), and I was thinking about getting a bottom to finish it off. Looks like a custom sinktube will do now.
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Hey JD,

Great info, and excellent pic!!! Boy is that a ginormous pic!!!
I've cropped and resized it so if you replace it with this file we all won't have to keep scrolling to the right.
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gripcloseup1b.jpg


HEre's the URL if you'd like to replace this pic in your post: http://www.oohyeahzone.com/rpf/gripcloseup1b.jpg

Since you'll be taking the pic down, if anyone wants to access the original file, go here:
http://www.oohyeahzone.com/rpf/gripcloseup1.jpg

Oh, and if you have more pics to host, send them to me at KL@oohyeahzone.com and I'll host them "for a long time".
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I wouldn't be 100% convinced that the bottom is not a Graflex just because there's no writing on the bottom end. Couldn't it simply have been just a puttied over butt-end, for some reason?
It would seem more logical that it WOULD be a Graflex bottom.

Besides, this is (still to me) obviously once LUke's ESB Graflex, so unless we're saying that even Luke's ESB was not an original Graflex bottom?
 
KL, aside from the absence of writing on the bottom, it looks like it's almost concave. Or it's just an aptical illusion.

But it does appear to have the rolled metal like on a Graflex bottom, and like you said it's got those grip holes that appear to be leftover from ESB.

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So what about it? Are those grips metal, or a plastic substance?
 
Still looks like a round metal disk on top of a Graflex bottom to me. The disk is sunken in the middle because of the Kobold bracket riveted on and curves up on the sides. So obviously there is a bottom to the tube underneath that this disk is attached to. Of course there's also the Graflex bottom tube slot visible in the midband gap. I see no reason to doubt it's a real bottom tube.

Another option for the inner support of this saber is black ABS pipe. It's used like PVC and can be found at some hardware stores. I hear it's more common in Canada.
I got it to go inside my ROTJ E-11, it should fit pretty tight in a Graflex too. It should look right since all we can see inside the Graflex tube slot is black.

Any more info on the maker of the UK cabinet catch?
Darco? There are several companies by that name.
I'd like to add more specific info to PoSW.

Metal T-track is bent sheet metal so the fins would be hollow. All the solid types so far have been black plastic.

As for the original question that started this thread. I don't think they did anything to the Graflex top. The archives book photo is very high contrast (look at that bright highlight on the flat black midband). If you trust the other pictures more the finish looks more standard, maybe a little more shiny from handling and perhaps a little polish.
 
Chris, what's your view on the Linholf bracket's color?

Do you think it was painted black? Cos ALL the shots I've seen of the MOM saber shows black. Surely it can't be the case that it's a reflection (or optical illusion
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) in ALL those shots?

I would have concluded it was black had it not been for that other non-MOM pic that showed it to be silver.
Could it have been painted black for MOM?
 
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lonepigeon wrote:
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---8< - Snip - >8---
Any more info on the maker of the UK cabinet catch?
Darco? There are several companies by that name.
I'd like to add more specific info to PoSW.

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Oops - it's Daro not Darco.
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Here are the details of the manufacturer:

Daro Factors Limited
80 - 84 Wallis Road,
London.
E9 5LW
England

WWW: www.daro.co.uk

The part is No. 236 Double Ball Catch (complete with stop).

B236%20double%20ball%20catch%20copy.jpg


They're have them in their online catalog at the bottom of this page.



Steve
 
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Oohyeah KL wrote:
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Chris, what's your view on the Linholf bracket's color?

Do you think it was painted black? Cos ALL the shots I've seen of the MOM saber shows black. Surely it can't be the case that it's a reflection (or optical illusion
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) in ALL those shots?

I would have concluded it was black had it not been for that other non-MOM pic that showed it to be silver.
Could it have been painted black for MOM?
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KL - it's a reflective chrome finish (well, apart from the dents and dings).

The black that you're seeing is just a reflection of the black felt in the bottom of the display cabinet and the darkened room that the exhibits were placed.

I can tell it's chrome because of a) the amount of reflectivity and the consistent blueish hue to reflected light. and B) because of the way the chrome is peeling off where it has been dented.

On the edges of some photos you can see the brass of the Linhof mount underneath. I never knew they were brass until I just took a look at that part of the photos.


Steve
 
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Oohyeah KL wrote:
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Hey JD,

Great info, and excellent pic!!! Boy is that a ginormous pic!!!
I've cropped and resized it so if you replace it with this file we all won't have to keep scrolling to the right.
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Errr...I posted that pic, KL!
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From the archives of "Brevin."
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aaaah... JD, BD, what's the diff... j/k..
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Sorry 'bout that!

Instead of taking the pic out from your original post above, I would suggest you just put the new image there instead.
That way people will know what the following posts are on about without having to scroll down to my post first.
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Anyway, as I said, shoot me the other pics and I'll host them.
 
Thanks for the Daro info Steve.

Steve summed up the Kobold bracket color already, I absolutely agree. The "Non-MoM" photo referred to actually IS a MoM photo. The pic is from the MoM book arranged and photographed particularly for the book. I don't know the exact details but I would guess the photo session was arranged by the Smithsonian and likely took place on the museum grounds or at the archives before the piece went out.

Can we fix the quote tags or whatever is messing up this thread?
 
The only thing I have to add to this, is that I really hate scrolling to the right!!! Please try and post long pics, up and down and not side to side (DAVID!) !!!
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Also, the Daro latches are easy to get and cheap, BUT the shipping to the US is very expensive!
I have posted the ordering info many times over the years since it was found. And I still have a nice size amount of them in stock that I sell for $5 each. So where ever you get them from don't pay more than that. If you order a large amount of them from the UK, then you can get them for about $2 each. Just a little FYI for you guys.


Now, please don't let this thread go off on the metal grip tangent, that has been debated many times before and these DV ROTJ grip were gone over many times. Dead horse.


Rear D-ring is not black.


The Control box: the screws, if that is what they are and if they go all the way threw to some inner part, well they do not line up into the L slots on the graflex shell. Well, I take that back, the rear one might line up with the slot as the contol box is usually push way back on the midband. But there is no way that the front plug/screw lines up with the L slot on the top shell as the math does not work out that way and would come up very short. So there is no way the plugs/screws/cylinders line up with both of the L slots on the graflex shells, at the sme time.

I almost made my last control boxes so that there were flat head screws that went all the way through the plug spots into my inner tube, then I was going to leave short plugs out so that you could press them or glue then in on top of the screws. But I scraped that idea as I wanted to make it more dummy proof than that, no offense just and engineering term.
 
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obi1kenny wrote:
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The only thing I have to add to this, is that I really hate scrolling to the right!!! Please try and post long pics, up and down and not side to side (DAVID!) !!!
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Sorry, Ken and everyone else! As I said, I'm pretty inexperienced with photo editing...
Thanks to KL for cropping that SOB for me.
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I have LOTS to add yet again, but right now I'm too tied up for a good reply. Here's a hint - I now have my doubts about the grips being rubber.
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Darf: You're very welcome! It's been a little-known fact that the end of this saber is not a real Graflex.

Steve: Keep up the awesome work, man! What an asset you are in this thread!
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Brevin- Where's the "fact" that the bottom is not a real Graflex. I still see no proof it's fake, and actually proof FOR it being real.
 
Chris (and others who are thinking the same) - maybe I chose the wrong wording when I said "fact."

Again, I have very little time to give a substantial reply...but looking at it, I'd have to say that it's not a genuine Graflex bottom.

First of all, WHY would the prop people go to the trouble to cover it with putty?

Also, if you look closely again, the edges look uneven at different points on the endcap.


But my BIGGEST gripe/argument deals with this: The end doesn't even LOOK like metal, IMO! It looks like some dull type of filler material.


Who knows...perhaps we'll be debating this 'til kingdom come!


I'll be back later. Again, I've enjoyed reading everyone's posts greatly!!!
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Well, when you get a chance check my points above.
I see no filler putty. I see the same thing I've always seen a really scratched up round piece of metal riveted to the bottom of a Graflex. It could be (and likely is) a washer since the center hole would be covered by the bracket.
 
Well, Im going to parially agree with both of you...I do believe it is an original Graflex bottom but I also believ that the bottom of the flash has metal epoxy or some other kind of goop in there...It also looks like it was sanded smooth, which might be why it has the concave look...
If you were to sand it smooth it would be hard to sand the area just iside the lip of the rim hence less would be sanded on the edges and more would be sanded on the inside possibly giving it the concave look.

Im trying hard to see a metal disc but its not happening for me..I dont see a reflective or metal finish to hint a metal disc, instead I see a kind of lumpy uneaveven finish, similar to dried epoxy..
..Also it seems that if it were a metal disc it would have a sharp edge around it which would be easy to see, but instead it looks like the edges in some areas melt or merge right into the lip of the flash, which are similar characteristics to the effects of putty or glue..
 
I'm still not ready for a full reply yet (damn the weather and AOL!), but I'll give a few things a stab.


First of all, I can't believe you "let the cat outta the bag," Steve!
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I've been tempted to contact my close friends who know the origins of where to buy the door latch from, but my stubborn nature kept me from doing it. I always wanted to kinda stumble upon it in a search...
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Chris: I so badly wanted to answer you tonight with another pic, but I simply don't have it to back my thoughts up. Nevertheless, I'll try and explain.

As DS pointed out, that's exactly what I think (even though he said he was "partially agreeing with both of us.")
The pic I was planning on using to help my case showed a CLEAR difference between the top and bottom finishes. Like I said above, the end - not just the endcap - is very dull, and doesn't even look metallic! I'm not saying it ISN'T metal, I'm just saying that it looks strange...and since the Graflex stamp is obviously not there, I don't believe that part is original.

Now, you say that:

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It could be (and likely is) a washer since the center hole would be covered by the bracket.
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I just can't see where you are getting that from. But, back to my fundamental question - WHY would the prop makers bother to use this different part, whether it's putty, Bondo, resin filler, or a washer - in the first place?

I'll insert the pertinent pic in this post once I can get it uploaded.
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Also, I have a VERY compelling picture that shows support for threads in the activation box, not [EDIT] SPRINGS.
Believe it or not, the shot is from one of the two small rectangles at the bottom...again pointing towards the front cylinder.


I'd love to contribute more, but without pics, that's all I can give for now!
 
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