More details on the Vader ROTJ saber - Please archive

There is a LOT to take in from this thread so far.

I'm gonna back up and hit on the major points.

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DARTH SABER wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
What about the stuff on the bottom of the saber??
Im referring the "putty" looking stuff under the D-ring..Kinda looks like metal epoxy with a whitish grey color to it.
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The answer Dan gave is also what I believe. The bottom either popped out and was puttied, or possibly they machined a new bottom. Weird!


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dcarty wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
Great thread! For whatever reason this saber fascinates me too (kind of like the A-10 Warthog--mean, ugly, and dangerous).

One detail I have noticed that seems to get missed from time to time on our replicas is that the Linhoff bar for the D-ring has been painted black on the original.

You can see where the paint is chipping around the edges
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Thanks, Dave! Maybe I should rename it now.
Well, like KL pointed out, I think it's the lighting (again!!!).
Nice observation, though!


As for this WHOLE issue about the activation box having screws in it, I totally disagree. Besides blaming the lighting again, I know of a person who has spoken with someone that knows exactly what the original box was made from - a British momentary contact switch. The part that looks like threads are actually coils.

Maybe he'll chime in. I'll give him a PM.


(Hey, KL...would you consider asking the Admins to merge this thread with your archived one?)

Momentary switch, that's right! I had an un-named older prop guy tell me what this original part was and I just kept forgetting what the heck the name was.

Is it wrong of me to say I could care less if it's a screw or a spring as it make no difference? It's still painted over and you aren't supposed to see it anyhow.

PD - your pic isn't showing (anymore). Can you email it to me and I'll host it?


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obi1kenny wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
Here is a pic:



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Whoaa... now THIS is a super-clear pic!! And I think it now explains why the front cylinder top is unclear whether there's a slot or not, and why the possible slot line directions seem inconsistent between pics - cos it has faint 'lines' from being so beat up! You could read there to be a horizontal line, or a vertical line, depending on your "point of view". And YET another optical illusion!!

Which brings me to the obvious question: What should a prop replicator do? Slots or no slots?
With the lines as faint as they are, and since they probably tried to putty it over to cover the slot lines, I would go for no slot lines (which is great since my Ob1kenny kit doesn't have them... )

As for the threading showing through:



I'm not sure that the bottom pic is clear enough to show that there is no threading. My bet it is probably... yep, you guessed it - an optical illusion...

Brevin - yep, no probs - I too think that we shoudl certainly archive this thread, either merged with the PIC thread, or on its own.

Even if the bottom pic has or doesnt have threading you can still see that theres a cylinder missing hence exposing whatever is inside...
On the top pic you can clearly see that the stem/coil is recessed farther back than the edge of the head..

True, Pat...but if we're seeking 100% accuracy here, the key point on this subject is whether the coils are spiral (like a screw) or horizontal.


Do ya get me?

Any electricians in the house???
I wonder if those coils are springs for a button?? They knda look like theyre going in an angle..

Great thread ...

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Oohyeah KL wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>

----------8<---------- snip ---------->8----------
As for the threading showing through:

<IMG SRC="http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0TQDeAvsWy2!sfOJj!QmL*plBfcRYv0xp0Z2e7ElTm7USqOC9EI2kO*yoavEXQBBYAOsFYd2!JHA3G6LlxHw91L7VuzRafs!8dzAGJ9DzTD7Kwn*UDuNfuA/ROTJ-THREAD.jpg
" BORDER="0">

I'm not sure that the bottom pic is clear enough to show that there is no threading. My bet it is probably... yep, you guessed it - an optical illusion...

Brevin - yep, no probs - I too think that we shoudl certainly archive this thread, either merged with the PIC thread, or on its own.
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Funnily enough I was looking at this earlier this afternoon.

The following image shows that the thread is there all along, but somehow the lighting washed out the shadows and it disappeared - to the eye anyway, but not to the camera!




The image on the left is original with only the levels adjusted for maximum contrast and range, while the image on the right has been lightly sharpened and then adjusted using photoshop adjustment curves.

I set the curves to create a very high contrast within a short range of luminance values and inverted the bright areas.

The result is that the details that were washed out by the lighting now become visible, clearly showing the threads on the nearest screw.


...As for the coil idea. If it's a momentary action switch, then it would have springs inside rather than coils (relays have coils). One photo that was posted earlier shows a taper on the underside of the head, which makes me think it's a flat-head blade-type countersunk screw rather than a spring or coil.

When I first started looking for this part, I had a hunch it was an electrical device and one of the things I've been trying to track down is an old style of electrical lighting wall switch. The style I saw once has two round buttons, one over the other, and they were mounted to the backside of a wall plate. One button turned the light(s) on, the other turned the light(s) off (this was before the single throw rocker switch was invented, which is what we have in our homes today).

Until the actual item is found, I still have another theory that it could be an old electrical circuit breaker. These had a button which popped out when the breaker tripped, a small window showing either green or red (the trip status) and another button to reset the breaker.

I think I'll have to make a 3D model of it, with as much detail as we already have, then see if showing it at another angle makes it easier to identify.


Steve

Cool, good work on the contrast pics Steve..


I have not yet made this saber from a real Graflex and was wondering if you veterans could answer a couple of questions...

1) Most of you use a PVC pipe to connect the bottom and top, yes??

2) Does the PVC pipe fit perfectly inside the Graflex or does it need altering???

3) What size PVC pipe do you use??

4) was a PVC pipe used to connect the top and bottom on the original Saber??


This is so funny...For every OT saber that comes up in a thread a member pops into mind also...
Almost every OT has a fanatic RPF member attached to it...

Obi Wans ANH saber- Gav, Serafino

Lukes ESB- Jameskenobi

Vaders ANH- PaulN (And your truly)

Vaders ROTJ- Brevin

Lukes ROTJ v.2- MJF

As far as the threading and screw slot details, looking at some of the closeups of the box, switch, breaker, it looked to me like they had painted it several times. Easily enough to fill in the slots and possibly the threads as well. You can see a pretty thick layer of flaked/ chipped paint on it.



What throws me off the switch idea is, if they are screws, how would they function as push buttons? Why wouldn't they be a solid button?

Great work, Steve! Thanks for that!


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DARTH SABER wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>

This is so funny...For every OT saber that comes up in a thread a member pops into mind also...
Almost every OT has a fanatic RPF member attached to it...

Obi Wans ANH saber- Gav, Serafino

Lukes ESB- Jameskenobi

Vaders ANH- PaulN (And your truly)

Vaders ROTJ- Brevin

Lukes ROTJ v.2- MJF
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You got Paul wrong!! He should be "Vader ESB"!!!!!

Yeah your right...He's even got that obscure photo named after him..."Pauls favorite pic".


Anyhow, does anyone have any answers for the questions I asked a few posts back ???

Anyone??

Why would they use screws? Well, clearly this isnt the hero version. Even if there was one at all. And the age of this thing... mabey at one time it might of had covers over the screws?

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DARTH SABER wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>

Anyhow, does anyone have any answers for the questions I asked a few posts back ???

Anyone??
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Yes, I could answer all of your questions, but you dissed me by not mentioning me on your list. So I will pass, as most everyone knows here that this damn ROTJ saber has consumed about 2 to 3 years of my life and is only major project that I have worked on constantly. But David is great if you are more of the drain pipe and resin saber kinda guy.




OK, I'm just kidding, really. But when I think of this ROTJ saber I think of the guy that helped me out the most and that would be Scott - WadaYado.


For answers to you question, go here:
http://www.geocities.com/elvistrooper/Gc/index.html


And check out more of my older pics here:
http://www.printroom.com/ViewAlbum.asp?userid=obi1kenny&album_id=53593

And if you want to go way way back and learn a little bit about the first project I ever posted here, then check here for the solid machined graflex:
http://www.printroom.com/ViewAlbum.asp?userid=obi1kenny&album_id=53348


And if this thread is going to be archived, then I would also like to post this pic, just for the hell of it:

Steve: Great work, both on the pic and on the spring/coil debate!
Yeah, it would seem more logical for there to be a spring in there since it's a switch.

Pat, I'll answer your questions here even though Ken went ahead and posted his link.
(Answers in bold.)
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DARTH SABER wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>

1) Most of you use a PVC pipe to connect the bottom and top, yes??

I'm not sure about most people, but that's how I do it. I think the two simplest ways are with either Ken's insert or a piece of Delrin that has been shaved down with a lathe. It also allows for the hex bolts to be attached.

2) Does the PVC pipe fit perfectly inside the Graflex or does it need altering???

It doesn't fit perfectly. It's a little undersized, so in order to keep it tight while drilling into it, you have to use something like washers at the base of the headshell to keep it from moving. Even the slightest misalignment can ruin your hex bolt installation - i.e., having them all flush with the tube.

3) What size PVC pipe do you use??

1-1/4" regular white PVC.

4) was a PVC pipe used to connect the top and bottom on the original Saber??

Great question. Nobody has a clue, as far as I know!

----------------------
This is so funny...For every OT saber that comes up in a thread a member pops into mind also...
Almost every OT has a fanatic RPF member attached to it...

Vaders ROTJ- Brevin

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Yeah, and every time I see a thread about this saber, I think about Wada Yado, SinkTube Jedi, TallDarkandDisfigured, and (gasp!) even Obi1Kenny!


Fried mon cal: Nice pic! I have one similar to it, and I forgot about how those slots look. IMO, they don't look like regular flat-head screws. They are much thicker, and also shorter. I wonder if that's for a special electrician's tool that can remove them in case the springs need to be replaced?

Ken:

I understand that the Vader ROTJ has grips similar in style to the Luke ANH, correct?

Are the grips metal or are they a plasticky substance?

Look at this pic (Hosted and posted by KL), and you can see an area of silver under the black on the grip in the bottom right corner.



Could that be the black paint chipping, exposing the metal underneath?

Thanks for the info guys, Hey Kenney I didnt mean to diss you BTW when I see Elvis swinging a lightsaber you pop to mind...
(Also, Thanks for the parts Kenney I got them today...they look wonderful...)

As for the PVC pipe on the original, I was looking at the pics that Oohyeah posted and noticed that under the silver button is some kind of white tubing peaking out in the hole...Does anyone else see this?? What is that??

You can also see it in the pic that darf posted above..

Ken, that's one of my favorite pics of you

Ok, first off it is a momentary switch. This coming from a professional movie prop maker in Hollywood that has also handled this saber.

Now don't ask me if they are screws or coils or what not. I don't know. I don't know too terribly much about momentary switches. I did try to get my friend who does a LOT of electrical work and who's MAIN job deals in none other than switches. He said right now there are HUNDREDS of momentary switches out there in use right now, and to look for a specific one that was use 20 years plus ago withOUT knowing the manufactorer would be like looking for a needle in a HUGE needle stack.

With having seen that thing in person and with all my pictures, I always thought they removed a few of the componants on the switch, and put two screws in the holes to attach it to the saber (most logical way to attach it...since the HUGE allen head bolts where to hold the blade assembley to the saber...yup, that's the only reason they were there). They didn't like the normal flat head screw heads showning so they put two big ciruclar black stickers on the top. In person they looked like stickers.

Now I like the way Ken did his box. He did a REALLY nice job. There's that whole debate on weather to put grooves in the cylinder tops or not. Personally I say not, just because the little stickers on the top pretty much smoothes out the grooves. Plus SD put grooves on his little cylinders, and I just didn't like the way that looked. Now I'm not knocking Steves work, or saying I hate all his stuff...his box was well done with nice and solid construction. One groove was left off round one side, but other than that very accurate. I just didn't like the way it looked with the grooves on the top of the cylinders.

So hey, there's my two pennies in the conversation

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DARTH SABER wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>

As for the PVC pipe on the original, I was looking at the pics that Oohyeah posted and noticed that under the silver button is some kind of white tubing peaking out in the hole...Does anyone else see this?? What is that??

You can also see it in the pic that darf posted above..
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I think that's the 3-cell bottom you can see. The dust/dirt that has accumulated in the recess has made it appear frosty and the camera flash makes it glare.

If you look in this photo that Oohyeah KL posted, you can see the bayonet type slot that's cut into the Graflex bottom tube:



Now, if you compare the location of the bayonet slot (in the above photo) with photos of the activator box assembly from different angles, you'll notice that the screws and the slot line up.

I believe that the screws go right through the empty switch housing and into the grooves of the Graflex tube. To further support this idea, in some photos (and the one KL posted above) you can see that the activator box is sitting at an angle with the tube - which is exactly what would happen if it was secured by screws going right through and the top/bottom tubes were twisted away from each other slightly.

JD - the needle in a needle stack is very true about a few Star Wars props, but we have determination ...besides, the Force is with us


Steve

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DARTH SABER wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
As for the PVC pipe on the original, I was looking at the pics that Oohyeah posted and noticed that under the silver button is some kind of white tubing peaking out in the hole...Does anyone else see this?? What is that??
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Pat, I'll upload some pics to my TEMPORARY AOL account in a bit of that area you're referring to. I must caution, though, that any pics I have will not be here permanently in the case this thread gets archived, so either save them to your HD or LMK someone who can host them for a long time.


JD: Way to go, bud! Thanks for the analysis, it was greatly needed.
(Although I must say, the comment about taking "20 years" to find the right switch was kinda depressing... )


Darf, great pic, and another great topic. I really don't think the grips are metal, even despite the fact that your compelling pic shows what appears to be chipped metal.
If these are the same grips that were from the famous "MK ANH T-track" find, I found it hard to believe. The ends are completely different. Again, pics coming up to compare!

Edit: DETAILED pic of grips and saber butt (resized, thank ya muchly, KL!). This should show definitively that it is NOT an original Graflex bottom, in addition to showing that the grips are not like the ones made from T-track.
Also, I think the lighting is yet again playing a trick on our eyes when it comes to the Linhof D-ring assembly.



More to come!