Clay vs Wax vs Clay (Materials discussion)

So I'm on the hunt for the perfect material for my sculpting. A lot of these have very specific uses, but I'm still lacking the perfect one. I came VERY close recently, only to discover the formula for that specific clay had changed.

I'd love for people to post their impressions of the types of clay they have used (and what they are best used for). Here's my thoughts and the materials I've used so far. ALL my impressions are hands-on sculpting; no machining here (Jarman, you tried to use Chavant to mill once, right? With very mixed results?)

WED:
For me, this was a terrible material. I work slowly and often am looking for very sharp, very fine details. It was great for speed sculpting, if I had to finish something that day, but for the large scale heads/sculpts I've been doing lately, it wasn't capturing the detail correctly.

CHAVANT NSP SOFT:
This clay is an oil-based clay that does not dry out. This was the very first clay I tried using. At first I loved it--it was easy to mold quickly into rough shape. When it came time to work on the details, that's when it shows its weaknesses. Now I use it for small, simple shapes that I want to finish in a day or two (such as the skull on the end of Meredith's sword).

CHAVANT NSP MEDIUM:
This clay is an oil-based clay that does not dry out. My second go-to clay, I really like this one. It's hard enough that I need a hairdryer on hand to slap it on to a mold, but it does require an armature. It also has the minuses of plastiline clay: it sticks to your hands and tools. I also had difficulties with a few techniques; keeping Chavant in a melted form was really really tough.

CHAVANT NSP HARD:
Another oil-based clay. It's great for small items, but I didn't really enjoy working with this. Hard enough to capture detail, it could stand on its own and I even stuck a cast into the freezer and sanded it once. However, it stuck to my hands/tools and was a pain to smooth out (even with alcohol).

APOXIE SCULPT:
A 2-part clay that hardens, this is fantastic for add-ons or items that you don't want to create a mold for. And you can drill/sand it once it hardens (3 hour cure time). For small items, it's great. For large head sculpts that you want to fiddle with, terrible.

KLEAN KLAY:
Now discontinued, I wasn't a big fan of this; it was too soft for my purposes. However it had a good feel on the hands. A comparable material to Chavant Soft.

MONSTER MAKERS CLAY:
This is actually the main reason I'm starting this thread. I was gifted a 5 lb block of this clay (which is half wax/half clay mix) and simply fell in love. You could heat it until it was melted, pour it on your sculpture, move it around to rough shape, and when it cooled completely down, it would be as hard as wax and you couldn't even budge the surface without heating it up slightly with a hairdryer/blowtorch. And it wouldn't stick to my tools or my hands. Just perfect. I immediately bought another block. When I got the second block, it was as soft as Chavant Soft. It still had all the other qualities (didn't stick to my hands, could be heated up, etc), but the formula had changed dramatically enough, from harder than Chavant Hard to as soft as the weakest.

So. I toss this out in the ring: What clay do you use/have used? What do you prefer? I am THIS CLOSE to saying "screw clay!" and buying all the wax on the market and finding out how I deal with that. I'm looking for a super hard clay that I can shape when warm and literally carve/mold with my hands ONLY when heated up a bit. Thoughts?

Have you tried polymer clays? I prefer them for their versatility and ease to work.
I use sculpey exclusively, in various formulas. I have yet to use the firm, but I regularly use basic sculpey for bulking out over armatures/foil/cardboard, and then I switch to Super Sculpey and/or Sculpey III for detail work.

Tastyburger said:

Have you tried polymer clays? I prefer them for their versatility and ease to work.
I use sculpey exclusively, in various formulas. I have yet to use the firm, but I regularly use basic sculpey for bulking out over armatures/foil/cardboard, and then I switch to Super Sculpey and/or Sculpey III for detail work.

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I haven't used Sculpey for years so I didn't add it to this list (the above is everything I've tried in the past year only, augh). My "ideal" clay would be something that I could also re-use from sculpt to sculpt. I don't mind a high price point as long as I can recoup that by using it until forever. Also, it MUST be sulfur-free.

Can you go a bit more into depth with how sculpey is to work with? Does it cling to your hands/tools? How large of a sculpt do you usually work with (is it better for things about the size of your fist or mask making over a head/shoulders armature?)

EDIT: Let me add to this that having my sculpture hard overall and only soft in sections at a time was really useful, as I wasn't afraid of accidentally damaging the section I wasn't working on. And b/c I work with mostly large pieces, it was also important for me to move around... so I couldn't heat/cure a sculpture in sections, as I was constantly finalizing.

Sculpey contains sulphur, and is therefor, of no use to sculpters looking to mold with silicone.

I too am in this similar boat. Just got my chavant medium and hard, but haven't gotten a chance to work with it yet.

I used to use some sort of grey oil based clay. Firm enough for good detail, soft enough to be easy to work with. However, it would never melt to a pourable, liquid consistency.

I eventually picked up 40lbs of monster clay premium (this is the only clay they make now) and it rocks. Very hard at room temperature, softens up easy for sculpting. Never sticks to my tools or hands. Melts down to liquid for ready cleaning. Didn't smell like propane. Can be smoothed with citrisolve (non-toxic solvent). Best stuff ever.
The only limitation I've found is that it is just a little too soft for small parts like teeth. For that, I use...

Chavant NSP Medium
It's sticky which can be frustrating but it maintains a consistent firmness regardless of how thick it is, so it's been great for sculpting teeth.

GotWookiee said:

I eventually picked up 40lbs of monster clay premium (this is the only clay they make now) and it rocks. Very hard at room temperature, softens up easy for sculpting. Never sticks to my tools or hands. Melts down to liquid for ready cleaning. Didn't smell like propane. Can be smoothed with citrisolve (non-toxic solvent). Best stuff ever.

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You have a batch of the old stuff, I think. Hold onto that like your life depends on it! I have 5 lbs of that and I will use it to DEATH, but the new formula is as soft as Chavant soft.

booksandcorsets said:

Can you go a bit more into depth with how sculpey is to work with? Does it cling to your hands/tools? How large of a sculpt do you usually work with (is it better for things about the size of your fist or mask making over a head/shoulders armature?)



EDIT: Let me add to this that having my sculpture hard overall and only soft in sections at a time was really useful, as I wasn't afraid of accidentally damaging the section I wasn't working on. And b/c I work with mostly large pieces, it was also important for me to move around... so I couldn't heat/cure a sculpture in sections, as I was constantly finalizing.

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I know nothing about the interactions between sculpey and silicone, but I'm fairly sure it can be sealed to prevent issues. I believe the problem lies when you want to mold around unbaked sculpey, as opposed to baked.

That being said; I'm not sure if that's what you are looking for. If you want to recover the original material, sculpey won't work for you.

The basic clay is white and a little chalky, sometimes leaving a slight residue. Nothing that doesn't come right off with a wash. It's also less durable when baked that it's newer versions.

Super sculpey leaves no residue, is much harder when baked and could be used for projects of a fairly large size. I prefer building around armatures, as the clay is 10 bucks a pound.

Sculpey III is in-between. Some colors leave a residue; some don't. None of them really stick to tools or hands too bad. Of the three varieties, I still prefer Super Sculpey.

Sculpey III is good for colors, but I really don't care about that. Nothing a decent paint job can't fix, and it's less expensive to buy in larger volumes. III comes in small 3 ounce blocks, I think. The other varieties are 1lb and up.

Never used Sculpey firm, but it's supposed to remedy the inconsistencies between each of the three previous blends, with a harder product for better detailing.

I only just bought my monster clay back march, and I haven't heard anyone else mention changes in the formula. I have been told that they used to offer two formulas; premium and standard. Apparently, everyone bought premium so they only make that now.

GotWookiee said:

I only just bought my monster clay back march, and I haven't heard anyone else mention changes in the formula. I have been told that they used to offer two formulas; premium and standard. Apparently, everyone bought premium so they only make that now.

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The block I purchased in late August was very different in its softness at room temperature than the earlier one I was gifted (which was purchased 1-2 years ago). I showed the two batches to several other people and there was a very big difference.

If you want stupidly hard clay, try Chavant's Y2Klay. The stuff is like wood and can me milled or wet/dry sanded once hard. They use it to sculpt cars and interiors. Might be what you're after.

Personally I've used Chavant LBT in a cold room and gotten crisp lines but I live in the UK where its always cold LOL

Seriously though, try a block of Y2Klay. It'll be harder than the original MM stuff but may work for you.

Nat

TheKingaSwing said:

If you want stupidly hard clay, try Chavant's Y2Klay. The stuff is like wood and can me milled or wet/dry sanded once hard. They use it to sculpt cars and interiors. Might be what you're after.

Personally I've used Chavant LBT in a cold room and gotten crisp lines but I live in the UK where its always cold LOL

Seriously though, try a block of Y2Klay. It'll be harder than the original MM stuff but may work for you.

Nat

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That's been recommended to me elsewhere too, so I'm definitely going to give it a try! Thank you!

But more importantly, there seems to be a tremendous lack of people using wax to carve. Does anyone here use wax for large pieces, rather than just for jewelry?

Cool thread!

I use wax quite a bit to sculpt model kit figures and busts.
I usually start the sculpt in Monster Clay or super sculpey, make a waste mold and pour up a wax for the final detailing.

Wax can take a long time to build up on its own, so most artists I know start their sculptures in a softer medium and then transfer it to wax later.

Also, Super Sculpey is safe for molding with silicone --

-- Norm

Monster Clay Monster Clay Monster Clay I love it! I've used all of chevant's products, klean klay, form-it clay, wed, water based, apoxi sculpt, etc etc.

I love the details that I can put into hardened monster clay. Also using minor solvents over it easily softens the details and allows me to do realistic skin tones very easily. The fact that it can be melted is just the icing on the cake as I now substitute it for plaster when I'm making a positive from an alginate lifecast. By pouring and doing a clay positive, i can correct imperfections much more easily and then do a silicone mold of that.

NormMeyers said:

I use wax quite a bit to sculpt model kit figures and busts.
I usually start the sculpt in Monster Clay or super sculpey, make a waste mold and pour up a wax for the final detailing.

Wax can take a long time to build up on its own, so most artists I know start their sculptures in a softer medium and then transfer it to wax later.

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I hadn't thought of waste molds but that might be a great way to get to what I'm looking for--thank you for your input. Do you use alginate for them or go a pricier route?

Waste molds make it a lot easier.

I use a product called Sil-putty which is a silicone putty, you mix by hand (equal amounts of A and B). It cures in a matter of minutes and you simply press it onto the sculpture.

Once it's cured, you cut it open in a zig zag pattern, remove the sculpture and then seal it back up with more silputty.

You can then pour up a wax copy.

Silputty is made and sold by Silpak.

Best,

--Norm

NormMeyers said:

Waste molds make it a lot easier.

I use a product called Sil-putty which is a silicone putty, you mix by hand (equal amounts of A and B). It cures in a matter of minutes and you simply press it onto the sculpture.

Once it's cured, you cut it open in a zig zag pattern, remove the sculpture and then seal it back up with more silputty.

You can then pour up a wax copy.

Silputty is made and sold by Silpak.

Best,

--Norm

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Have you purchased any of this stuff lately? It sounds great, but from their site being down, I'm starting to suspect Silpak is out of business.

I picked some up a little while ago.
It might be best to call them up - I had trouble opening the site from google for some reason today.

818-985-8850

Best

Norm

Bumping an old thread.

Has anyone worked with Cx5 now that it's out? I'm considering picking some of this up.

Sculpting Materials

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zYkiEOrnKs

I mainly used Roma Plastilina. Here are a few things I sculpted over the years.

I'd second the recommendation of Y2Klay, I've been using it since the day it came out and haven't looked back.

NSP Medium is great for organics and speed but when you want a hard edge detail you have to ozone can freeze it, same as with WED. I mainly use WED for all my mold walls, but occasionally when I need to sculpt something fast and organic, WED is a go to.

I've heard a few good things about CX5 but have yet to see if anything significant sculpted from it like a bust, everything is smaller in the figure range.

My mentor endorses Monster Clay highly, but I haven't used it yet since I've still got a half case of y2Klay left to use up.



Maybe an Admin can put a pin in this thread. Clays are never discussed enough and in the end its going to come down to personal preferences, but the more its talked about the easier it is to narrow the choices down to just the right clay for you.