How to build a set of spinning concentric rings? (Mass Relays, Gravity Drive, etc.)

A

Auram

Member
I've begun working on a Mass Relay model from Mass Effect and one of the things I've been stuck on is whether it is possible to get the concentric rings in the MR to spin.

Obviously you can motorize the outside ring to spin on the x-axis, but I'm unsure how you could get the inner ring to spin on the y-axis without a second motor and a slip-ring setup on the spindle holding the inner ring to the outer ring. One other thought is to mount magnets on each ring so that they will oppose each other, causing the inner ring to spin.

You can see this same 'design' with a 3-axis setup in a few other spots. Event Horizon's Gravity Drive or the machine that's built in Contact (pictured below).

One final note, the scale I'm working on is very small, meaning my MR rings are approximately 1inch at their largest dimension, so that may further limit my options, but nevertheless, I would love to hear any ideas!


tumblr_m6jkaic3Ta1qj80i1o1_1280.jpg
 
Re: How to build a set of spinning concentric rings? (Mass Relays, Gravity Drive, etc

I'm thinking that you could possibly offset the X or Y axis by a little bit, basically don't put it exactly on the 90* so the inner rings want to naturally attempt to reorient due to the weight change. not sure if that would work but its a thought.
 
Re: How to build a set of spinning concentric rings? (Mass Relays, Gravity Drive, etc

Sadly, youre not going to be able to do it without gearing it somehow. Perpetual Motion is impossible in gravity.
 
Re: How to build a set of spinning concentric rings? (Mass Relays, Gravity Drive, etc

Szyntax said:
Sadly, youre not going to be able to do it without gearing it somehow. Perpetual Motion is impossible in gravity.
Click to expand...

That's what I was kind of expecting, but it never hurts to ask. I think I'll be able to live with a single axis rotating if need be
 
Re: How to build a set of spinning concentric rings? (Mass Relays, Gravity Drive, etc

i thought of something i saw in a rotocasting machine that may help you out though it would require the rings to be hollow on 1/4 at least between the 90* pivot points.

Inside the pivot point of the ring in the hollow section a looped string or say a hairband or other similar bit wound wrap around a pully gear and that band would travel down the ring to its next rings pivot point. I would give you the spin your looking for but the band inside would be constantly sliding along the rings curve so it may eventually weaken and snap.

here is a youtube vid I found just off hand that shows what im getting at, no motors, just bands and pullys.

$20 Rotational Casting Machine - YouTube
 
Re: How to build a set of spinning concentric rings? (Mass Relays, Gravity Drive, etc

I think you are going to need motors for each ring. There's not much difference between the Gravity Drive from Event Horizon and one of those thingies the astronauts roll around in to test balance and puking from motion sickness. One's a bitchin prop that looks awesome and has a static center, one has a guy in it trying his best not to puke.

Chris
 
Re: How to build a set of spinning concentric rings? (Mass Relays, Gravity Drive, etc

If the inner ring was unevenly weighted it might flop around nicely with the movement of the outer ring. Of course tests would be needed to see if the overall effect was close enough.

Nick
 
Re: How to build a set of spinning concentric rings? (Mass Relays, Gravity Drive, etc

guyverx said:
i thought of something i saw in a rotocasting machine that may help you out though it would require the rings to be hollow on 1/4 at least between the 90* pivot points.

Inside the pivot point of the ring in the hollow section a looped string or say a hairband or other similar bit wound wrap around a pully gear and that band would travel down the ring to its next rings pivot point. I would give you the spin your looking for but the band inside would be constantly sliding along the rings curve so it may eventually weaken and snap.

here is a youtube vid I found just off hand that shows what im getting at, no motors, just bands and pullys.

$20 Rotational Casting Machine - YouTube
Click to expand...

This is actually somewhat feasible from a build standpoint. I don't know if it'll make it in the final design, but it gives me a good spot to start from (and it may just be something I throw together for casting anyways). Thanks guyverx
 
Re: How to build a set of spinning concentric rings? (Mass Relays, Gravity Drive, etc

I don't really understand which directions you are trying to get the different rings to spin. If you are trying to get two things to spin in opposite directions on the same axis, there is a very simple gear box you can build.
Here is a picture I drew. This design is used for contra rotating propellers. Examples include torpedoes and those little RC helicopters that lack tail rotors.
The solid main drive shaft passes through a hollow second drive shaft. The gears are set up so that the two shafts turn in opposite directions. I picked up four small (3/8" wide) gears from this site for around $6, but with shipping it was around $20. The rod and tubing I picked up at a hardware store.
 
Re: How to build a set of spinning concentric rings? (Mass Relays, Gravity Drive, etc

Conqueror_Worm said:
I don't really understand which directions you are trying to get the different rings to spin. If you are trying to get two things to spin in opposite directions on the same axis, there is a very simple gear box you can build.
Here is a picture I drew. This design is used for contra rotating propellers. Examples include torpedoes and those little RC helicopters that lack tail rotors.
The solid main drive shaft passes through a hollow second drive shaft. The gears are set up so that the two shafts turn in opposite directions. I picked up four small (3/8" wide) gears from this site for around $6, but with shipping it was around $20. The rod and tubing I picked up at a hardware store.
Click to expand...

If you look at the two rings head-on, I'm trying to have one ring spin on the X axis (like a quarter you spun on a table, left to right in a circle), and the inner ring on the Y axis (like a quarter you flipped in the air for a coin toss, top to bototm). Here's a video of the item in question, at about the 10-second mark

Mass Effect Relay In-Game Version in HD - YouTube
 
Re: How to build a set of spinning concentric rings? (Mass Relays, Gravity Drive, etc

I want to build a set, too, although I'm doing it on a much larger scale and am planning to use stepper motors, LEDs, and slip-rings. However, while doing research to get design ideas, I did find a metal sculpture called "Ploroma" that does exactly what you are looking for, by using offsets of a function of Phi (1.618) instead of 90 degrees. Here's the link: http://ironjohnlogan.com/art

Hope this helps!
 
Re: How to build a set of spinning concentric rings? (Mass Relays, Gravity Drive, etc

Szyntax said:
Sadly, you're not going to be able to do it without gearing it somehow. Perpetual Motion is impossible in gravity.
Click to expand...

correction: Perpetual Motion is impossible in atmosphere. Gravity is actually essential for many designs of 'perpetual' motion devices. Friction and air resistance is what kills them, not gravity.
 
Re: How to build a set of spinning concentric rings? (Mass Relays, Gravity Drive, etc

Correction: Any sort of true Perpetual Motion machine is impossible in reality. Refer to the laws of thermodynamics.

Entropy is a harsh mistress.
 
Re: How to build a set of spinning concentric rings? (Mass Relays, Gravity Drive, etc

Anyhow, at that small of a scale, I suspect any sort of complex gearing system for each ring would be difficult. I'd go the route of a motor and reduction pulley drive for the outer ring, and experiment with offset weights inside the smaller rings. As the outer ring turned, the weight on each each inner ring would cause it to turn, giving the illusion of spin.

That's the theory, anyway.
 
Re: How to build a set of spinning concentric rings? (Mass Relays, Gravity Drive, etc

some of energy used for work gets lost as heat
 
Last edited:
Re: How to build a set of spinning concentric rings? (Mass Relays, Gravity Drive, etc

I think a few of the members here must have missed the note that mentioned the diameter of the largest ring. Unless nanotechnology has taken an incredible leap overnight.

TazMan2000
 
Re: How to build a set of spinning concentric rings? (Mass Relays, Gravity Drive, etc

Yeah, at that scale, good luck. But also take a look at the spinning paperweight seen in Aliens. It's a similar contraption and uses mostly weights and gravity, I think?? I haven't seen one in person in decades.
 
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