Origins of the AA/SDS Armor
- Thread starter jeezycreezy
- Start date
Gilmortar
Sr Member
protrude, the picture that Braks provided is showing the back side of the ab plate, showing that the ab buttons are vacc'd to the plate and not added on...
And maybe the suit is from an ROTJ, but we are still looking into all ASPECTS of what it could be.
Those who know troopers up and down may not need comparisons but even for the "experts" it never hurts to go back and look at the source material again and PROVE it.
Also by showing comparisons instead of just stating "facts" other members can easily see what we are talking about, because at the end of the day, who am I that you should believe me?
You shouldn't.
Don't just have blind faith in me.
Believe me because you can see what I say for yourself in the pictures I post.
The point of this whole thread is to show these things not tell people how it is.
As my pappy used to say,
"Enough with the Preaching, and get on with the teaching"
A picture says 1000 words.
And maybe the suit is from an ROTJ, but we are still looking into all ASPECTS of what it could be.
Those who know troopers up and down may not need comparisons but even for the "experts" it never hurts to go back and look at the source material again and PROVE it.
Also by showing comparisons instead of just stating "facts" other members can easily see what we are talking about, because at the end of the day, who am I that you should believe me?
You shouldn't.
Don't just have blind faith in me.
Believe me because you can see what I say for yourself in the pictures I post.
The point of this whole thread is to show these things not tell people how it is.
As my pappy used to say,
"Enough with the Preaching, and get on with the teaching"
A picture says 1000 words.
Prob not the greatest two pics ever posted but hopefully these angled shots will show that the lines and the buttons are raised, not recessed.
[attachmentid=4860] [attachmentid=4861]
Jackie_Chan_Fan
New Member
I just looked at AA's website to check out the pics of the suit. Its a very nice suit but it doesnt look like a real ANH suit. Thats not to say its a bad suit by any means. Overall its looks to be a good suit at a good price from a good guy. I still think AA is a good guy overall despite my doubts about the "original mold" claims.
I like TE's new suit, it seems to have nice shoulders and so forth. I have a feeling that the AA suit is made sturdier than a TE. SDS's website says its 2.5mm. Thats pretty thick.
I wonder if it is less detailed looking.
I just noticed that SDS's Hero helmet is also 2.5mm thick. Wasnt the SDS stunt 1.5mm? (i remember reading so on their page)
Doesnt changing the thickness so drastically effect the sharpness of the form?
2.5mm has to be pretty dam sturdy though. I'll give AA credit for that. I'd love to have one of these suits but i simply can not afford one
AA if you're out there and want to do a good deed for a poor man, please send me one and i'll write an honest review
It is hard to say without having one, but it doesnt look entirely right to me. (better pictures might help bring out that classic trooper look) Anyways, It also isnt that bad. So its a nice purchase i think. Now if i could only afford one.
Again its hard to say if its better or worse than a TE. The new TE suits look really nice.
My whole stance on the SDS thing is that I was hoping so much that SDS would bring us drop dead accurate products. I expected to SDS to deliver a product that would just click the old "uhuh, thats the mother f'n real thing baby" switch in my brain. But the helmets proved to be too different in many areas. The flare etc. There are many things right with the SDS helmet but just as many WRONG things about it.
So again my stance on the whole SDS as of current is that damn, i just wish it was the dream come true moment I had been hoping for. Its a disapointment but its not a complete disaster. I mean the products are decent. It's the claims that get my goat. That said i still think AA is a good guy, he's just doing what everyone else has done.
Hell i thought TE's armor was all original until i learned otherwise. TE's helmets are certainly incredible to say the least (same goes for Gino, Meatsock, and authentic props) They're all drop dead gorgeous helmets that seem to be closer to the originals they were cast from.
I just wish the dream was a reality but the quest goes on. Atleast we have some nice products out there to enjoy along the way. And nice is subjective. Ultra detail freaks such as myself will certainly be more picky when compairing items (IE: SDS vs TE vs MEATSOCK, vs GINO, vs GF, vs FX, vs RTMOD, vs ORIGINALS)
But hell, you could do a hell of a lot worse than the SDS armor. So i say to whoever bought it, enjoy it. These wars of details we get into are in the best interest of ALL of us buyers. We just want to full fill that childhood dream to its fullest.
I just wish we could be nicer about it
I still find my SDS stunt to be a disapointment in many ways, but at the same time its a good item. Its from AA, its a very low numbered SDS and it's nice and sharp. Sure it has the stupid looking flare, the ears that look half modified, the flat rear tube... stickers...@$.@$. But its still unique. It's just not the dream come true moment we all were hoping for.
BTW yes the stomach buttons look too big, the ab armor looks too wide, the chest armor's bevel is too round.
I like TE's new suit, it seems to have nice shoulders and so forth. I have a feeling that the AA suit is made sturdier than a TE. SDS's website says its 2.5mm. Thats pretty thick.
I wonder if it is less detailed looking.
I just noticed that SDS's Hero helmet is also 2.5mm thick. Wasnt the SDS stunt 1.5mm? (i remember reading so on their page)
Doesnt changing the thickness so drastically effect the sharpness of the form?
2.5mm has to be pretty dam sturdy though. I'll give AA credit for that. I'd love to have one of these suits but i simply can not afford one
AA if you're out there and want to do a good deed for a poor man, please send me one and i'll write an honest review It is hard to say without having one, but it doesnt look entirely right to me. (better pictures might help bring out that classic trooper look) Anyways, It also isnt that bad. So its a nice purchase i think. Now if i could only afford one.
Again its hard to say if its better or worse than a TE. The new TE suits look really nice.
My whole stance on the SDS thing is that I was hoping so much that SDS would bring us drop dead accurate products. I expected to SDS to deliver a product that would just click the old "uhuh, thats the mother f'n real thing baby" switch in my brain. But the helmets proved to be too different in many areas. The flare etc. There are many things right with the SDS helmet but just as many WRONG things about it.
So again my stance on the whole SDS as of current is that damn, i just wish it was the dream come true moment I had been hoping for. Its a disapointment but its not a complete disaster. I mean the products are decent. It's the claims that get my goat. That said i still think AA is a good guy, he's just doing what everyone else has done.
Hell i thought TE's armor was all original until i learned otherwise. TE's helmets are certainly incredible to say the least (same goes for Gino, Meatsock, and authentic props) They're all drop dead gorgeous helmets that seem to be closer to the originals they were cast from.
I just wish the dream was a reality but the quest goes on. Atleast we have some nice products out there to enjoy along the way. And nice is subjective. Ultra detail freaks such as myself will certainly be more picky when compairing items (IE: SDS vs TE vs MEATSOCK, vs GINO, vs GF, vs FX, vs RTMOD, vs ORIGINALS)
But hell, you could do a hell of a lot worse than the SDS armor. So i say to whoever bought it, enjoy it. These wars of details we get into are in the best interest of ALL of us buyers. We just want to full fill that childhood dream to its fullest.
I just wish we could be nicer about it
I still find my SDS stunt to be a disapointment in many ways, but at the same time its a good item. Its from AA, its a very low numbered SDS and it's nice and sharp. Sure it has the stupid looking flare, the ears that look half modified, the flat rear tube... stickers...@$.@$.
But its still unique. It's just not the dream come true moment we all were hoping for.BTW yes the stomach buttons look too big, the ab armor looks too wide, the chest armor's bevel is too round.
Guys
It is virtually Impossible to Compare a Screen used Set of Armour to that of the New AA armour using Screen caps from Movies.
and i shall tell you why.
I was lucky enough to have a chat with Peter Diamond, and amoungst the many questions i asked hi one was "what were the Original Suits like to wear"
He told me that every extra in Stormtrooper Armour Himself included altered it, in his exact words
" we chopped bits off here and we chopped bits off there because they were so damn uncomfortable to wear"
So trying to prove the authenticity of an Item used in a movie 25+ yrs ago to a crisp brand new set of armour made in 2005 armour is just not going to hold any wieght at all
It is virtually Impossible to Compare a Screen used Set of Armour to that of the New AA armour using Screen caps from Movies.
and i shall tell you why.
I was lucky enough to have a chat with Peter Diamond, and amoungst the many questions i asked hi one was "what were the Original Suits like to wear"
He told me that every extra in Stormtrooper Armour Himself included altered it, in his exact words
" we chopped bits off here and we chopped bits off there because they were so damn uncomfortable to wear"
So trying to prove the authenticity of an Item used in a movie 25+ yrs ago to a crisp brand new set of armour made in 2005 armour is just not going to hold any wieght at all
exoray
Master Member
That would only account for trimming differences on the edges, molded and formed areas like the middle of the ab plate would have not been altered by the actors...
The differences posted here so far have zero to due with trimming they are forming differences...
My question is why if the original suits had formed buttons why does the AA ab plate have press in ones? Why change something so unique?
I would propose that it would eliminate the need to paint or at the very least make it possible to paint the buttons with out requiring much skill.
Anyone can paint the add on buttons so he does not require skilled labor.
Anyone can paint the add on buttons so he does not require skilled labor.
Gilmortar
Sr Member
Its not that we are comparing to "Screen Captures" its that I want to do poses of Each said suit, in a pose similar to that of movie shots/publicity photos. I am comparing AA to TE/GF/Gino/Etc. to prove/disclaim the opinion that AA/SDS has molded these from original molds.
"I would propose that it would eliminate the need to paint or at the very least make it possible to paint the buttons with out requiring much skill.
Anyone can paint the add on buttons so he does not require skilled labor."
I'm sorry Darth Mawr, I don't understand what you are saying. It might be the fact I haven't eaten all day and I am somewhat incoheirant, but could you explain?
"I would propose that it would eliminate the need to paint or at the very least make it possible to paint the buttons with out requiring much skill.
Anyone can paint the add on buttons so he does not require skilled labor."
I'm sorry Darth Mawr, I don't understand what you are saying. It might be the fact I haven't eaten all day and I am somewhat incoheirant, but could you explain?
I'm sorry, I should have quoted exoray's post before me. He asked why make the buttons add on when the orignal armor's buttons were molded into the ab plate.
I believe that AA now uses add on buttons on his ab plate so that he can purchase pre colored buttons or at least paint the buttons seperately then add them to the assymbly at a later time. This eliminates the requirement of a skilled artist to paint the buttons or the need to create a mask. Anyone can complete the ab plate with professional results despite their artistic abilities.
OK....now I'm confusing myself .
I believe that AA now uses add on buttons on his ab plate so that he can purchase pre colored buttons or at least paint the buttons seperately then add them to the assymbly at a later time. This eliminates the requirement of a skilled artist to paint the buttons or the need to create a mask. Anyone can complete the ab plate with professional results despite their artistic abilities.
OK....now I'm confusing myself
.
exoray
Master Member
For those the missed these claims there were a cut and paste of AA email to xmart in a previous thread located here...
Previous Locked Thread
If you read the first few post you will clearly see that the "original moulds" is referenced a few times even to the point of claims that they are all there...
Also a very interesting note in this email AA sent out and that has been touched upon in this thread already...
There was no overlap on the ANH armor that AA built for the movie (to increase,) the halfs butted together and a strip was applied, so this quote alone begs a few questions and raises a few eye brows...
Ouch, Flynn. That overlap quote isn't good. It certainly does make one wonder.
In regard to the comparisons, while many are "SURE" the AA suit is a GF/TE recast, I think for the sake of fair play, we should NOT be initially comparing the AA suit to a TE/GF but to a movie suit as that is what it is supposed to be. If we find that it doesn't match up to the movie suits then the question of "what does it match?" can be addressed. I know this may seem like we are playing dumb but I think it would be good to FIRST show whether the AA does or does not match the movie suits as I would think the movie suits are the bar by which all suits are measured.
In regard to the comparisons, while many are "SURE" the AA suit is a GF/TE recast, I think for the sake of fair play, we should NOT be initially comparing the AA suit to a TE/GF but to a movie suit as that is what it is supposed to be. If we find that it doesn't match up to the movie suits then the question of "what does it match?" can be addressed. I know this may seem like we are playing dumb but I think it would be good to FIRST show whether the AA does or does not match the movie suits as I would think the movie suits are the bar by which all suits are measured.
GINO
Sr Member
Braks,
The problem with that is (correct me if I'm wrong), people on both sides of the fence agree that the SDS doesn't match the originals. Many think it was cast off a TE/GF so don't you think it would be more efficient to make that comparison now and put that controversy to rest since that really is where all the hostility is stemming from?
The problem with that is (correct me if I'm wrong), people on both sides of the fence agree that the SDS doesn't match the originals. Many think it was cast off a TE/GF so don't you think it would be more efficient to make that comparison now and put that controversy to rest since that really is where all the hostility is stemming from?
Gilmortar
Sr Member
That is definatley a good point Gino. Mainly the one thing I am pushing to NOT see, is like in the 22pager:
"You are just saying that cuz you are a 'so-and-so' supporter and want them to make money"
Its more of the fact that AA/SDS has said, We are using the real original molds to make these suits.
I want to solidfy or debunk these statements. If AA/SDS is using the real molds, That is awesome. I might get a suit. If they are using molds not from the originals, well, people will say, "I told ya so".
If they aren't the real molds, and in fact, a recast from other providers suits, then shame on AA/SDS.
MY quest, is to solidfy or debunk the said comments and prove once and for all what the truth is.
If in my process I expose the molds are original, so be it. If in my process I expose the molds are not real, so be it. If in my process I expose they are recasts of said suits, so be it. But I'm going to find something one way or another.
"You are just saying that cuz you are a 'so-and-so' supporter and want them to make money"
Its more of the fact that AA/SDS has said, We are using the real original molds to make these suits.
I want to solidfy or debunk these statements. If AA/SDS is using the real molds, That is awesome. I might get a suit. If they are using molds not from the originals, well, people will say, "I told ya so".
If they aren't the real molds, and in fact, a recast from other providers suits, then shame on AA/SDS.
MY quest, is to solidfy or debunk the said comments and prove once and for all what the truth is.
If in my process I expose the molds are original, so be it. If in my process I expose the molds are not real, so be it. If in my process I expose they are recasts of said suits, so be it. But I'm going to find something one way or another.
Guess it depends on whether your goal is to simply try to prove that AA is a recaster or if you want to show the origins of the armor. Like I said, before, perhaps it seems like playing dumb but you never know how instructive it might be to those who are not so seasoned.
J.T.
I address you because you are the starter of this thread. The question posed is the claims of the AA suits being from the original molds. I have had three suits total 2 being T.E. one assembled by TE. Some say that some of the components came from other molds. The armor still looks 'right'.
We are all assuming that the AA came from the same SET of molds. Chest-back could be original, legs from a trimmed down GF, arms TE. The only true comparison would be from an original suit and the AA side by side. Both sets of legs of my TE suits are slightly different due to the construction/trimming.
This is a great quest. I hope someone could provid some side by side comparisons. If the AA suit has some found (non original molds) components than so be it. If the results are close enough to fool the naked eye then who cares for $1,000??????
Finaly, 'Original Molds' is a loose term. I wouldn't want anything from the original molds from 1977. Molds warp from usage. Thus the first time you 'reshape' or 'restore' the molds, hey are not 'original'. In the end it comes down to what looks right. The purist will pay for their convictions ($30,000 for an original helmet). I'm happier with a $1,500 suit that if a crack a bicep trooping who cares a can get another one.
Chris
p.s. had a couple martinis so excuse the spelling
I address you because you are the starter of this thread. The question posed is the claims of the AA suits being from the original molds. I have had three suits total 2 being T.E. one assembled by TE. Some say that some of the components came from other molds. The armor still looks 'right'.
We are all assuming that the AA came from the same SET of molds. Chest-back could be original, legs from a trimmed down GF, arms TE. The only true comparison would be from an original suit and the AA side by side. Both sets of legs of my TE suits are slightly different due to the construction/trimming.
This is a great quest. I hope someone could provid some side by side comparisons. If the AA suit has some found (non original molds) components than so be it. If the results are close enough to fool the naked eye then who cares for $1,000??????
Finaly, 'Original Molds' is a loose term. I wouldn't want anything from the original molds from 1977. Molds warp from usage. Thus the first time you 'reshape' or 'restore' the molds, hey are not 'original'. In the end it comes down to what looks right. The purist will pay for their convictions ($30,000 for an original helmet). I'm happier with a $1,500 suit that if a crack a bicep trooping who cares a can get another one.
Chris
p.s. had a couple martinis so excuse the spelling
Gilmortar
Sr Member
Originally posted by Lear60man@Nov 7 2005, 11:47 PM
J.T.
I address you because you are the starter of this thread. The question posed is the claims of the AA suits being from the original molds. I have had three suits total 2 being T.E. one assembled by TE. Some say that some of the components came from other molds. The armor still looks 'right'. We are all assuming that the AA came from the same SET of molds. Chest-back could be original, legs from a trimmed down GF, arms TE. The only true comparison would be from an original suit and the AA side by side.
If the AA suit has some found (non original molds) components than so be it. If the results are close enough to fool the naked eye then who cares for $1,000??????
Finaly, 'Original Molds' is a loose term. I wouldn't want anything from the original molds from 1977. Molds warp from usage. Thus the first time you 'reshape' or 'restore' the molds, hey are not 'original'.Â
p.s. had a couple martinis so excuse the spelling
[snapback]1111939[/snapback]
Well first, its TJ...lol...
Yes, we know the question at hand is if AA is using original molds.
"I have had three suits total 2 being T.E. one assembled by TE. Some say that some of the components came from other molds. The armor still looks 'right'."
I don't understand what you are implying. Could you elaborate? Are you saying that a TE suit, is mixed and matched between ANH, ESB, and ROTJ? Yeah, I know. Mines like that.
"We are all assuming that the AA came from the same SET of molds. Chest-back could be original, legs from a trimmed down GF, arms TE. The only true comparison would be from an original suit and the AA side by side. "
Yes, I and others are trying to find someone with an AA suit so we can get comparison pics. Now as for "the only true comparison...original suit and the aa side by side."
True and False. We are comparing to see if the suits are original, and if not from the original molds, then whose they are from. So we need to compare all aspects, original, TE, GF, Gino, ETC.
"If the AA suit has some found (non original molds) components than so be it. If the results are close enough to fool the naked eye then who cares for $1,000??????"
I care. I dislike Recasters. And this isnt a Recasting 101 class, so dont tell me that all the other armorers are just recasters, you know what I'm saying. GF and Ginos all have private artistic reproductions parts in the armor. So hence, there are still differences between originals, so if those are still present with AA, thiere is a problem.
"Finaly, 'Original Molds' is a loose term. I wouldn't want anything from the original molds from 1977. Molds warp from usage. Thus the first time you 'reshape' or 'restore' the molds, hey are not 'original'. In the end it comes down to what looks right."
If I had the original Stormy chest piece mold, and somewhere in the ages it cracked, If I had glued it back together and reworked and bondoed the seam so its nice and smooth still, ITS STILL ORIGINAL. Original Molds is not a loose term. If AA is using the EXACT SAME ORIGINAL MOLDS that were used to mold the EXACT SAME ORIGINAL SUITS from 1977, 1981, and 1983, then thats what we are talking about, no matter if they were reshaped or reworked.
Its not my job to devert people from purchasing whatever armor they want. But I feel that it is somewhat my part to AWARE people of the truths of anything about each. Just like people posting shady auctions on ebay. AA/SDS is saying they are using the original molds for their armor. I want to make sure this is true.
