Alien: Covenant (Prometheus Sequel)

Re: Paradise (Prometheus Sequel)

There's no assumption about it.. it's implicitly stated in the opening of the film. That's an Engineer, and it's seeding life. Pretty clear cut to me.

Fair enough. I will admit that the scene made little sense to me.

If I was engineering a new species I don't think I would do it in a way that kills me. I mean why bother?
 
Re: Paradise (Prometheus Sequel)

Yeah. Most trillion dollar expeditions don't leave any records as to where their funds were going or where the ship was headed. And most scientists never ever publish their findings about their discoveries that were found on Earth. No. Let's keep it all a secret, go to that mysterious place where the origin of all human life might be, and hope to god nothing goes wrong because if it does, nobody back home will have any clue as to what we were doing in the first place.

You're forgetting something. This is Weyland Enterprises (which is later renamed Weyland-Yutani, but is otherwise known as "the company") we are talking about. The Company that has tried to get ahold of the alien organism many times, sacrificing human beings in the process. It's suggested they're a mega-corp. Don't you think the company would keep a mission like seen in Prometheus secret, especially when their CEO may have ordered the Company to remain silent about it? Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised the trillion-dollar loss on the mission in Prometheus is what lead to the merger of the Weyland Corporation and the Yutani company.

Besides, Weyland himself may have made it mandatory that the scientists hold off in revealing their findings on Earth so that no one else on Earth knew about it. For all we know, the scientists approached Weyland first for sponsoring at least three of their last digs (after the first two, they probably discovered and noticed the drawings with the star maps and were running low on money to check any other places). After discovering the one at the beginning of the film, they went back to Weyland with their discovery and Weyland recommended not letting anyone know of their discovery until after they met with the Engineers (much like instead of revealing to the world you're working on a cancer drug, you hold off until you have a success on that cancer drug before releasing all of the findings).
 
Re: Paradise (Prometheus Sequel)

You're forgetting something. This is Weyland Enterprises (which is later renamed Weyland-Yutani, but is otherwise known as "the company") we are talking about. The Company that has tried to get ahold of the alien organism many times, sacrificing human beings in the process. It's suggested they're a mega-corp. Don't you think the company would keep a mission like seen in Prometheus secret, especially when their CEO may have ordered the Company to remain silent about it? Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised the trillion-dollar loss on the mission in Prometheus is what lead to the merger of the Weyland Corporation and the Yutani company.

Besides, Weyland himself may have made it mandatory that the scientists hold off in revealing their findings on Earth so that no one else on Earth knew about it. For all we know, the scientists approached Weyland first for sponsoring at least three of their last digs (after the first two, they probably discovered and noticed the drawings with the star maps and were running low on money to check any other places). After discovering the one at the beginning of the film, they went back to Weyland with their discovery and Weyland recommended not letting anyone know of their discovery until after they met with the Engineers (much like instead of revealing to the world you're working on a cancer drug, you hold off until you have a success on that cancer drug before releasing all of the findings).

Well said!
 
Re: Paradise (Prometheus Sequel)

Well said!

Thanks. In fact, I just stumbled across this when I was looking at the link to the Weyland Industries website. I know it doesn't count as canon, since it's a website and it is not featured in the film itself, but when you go to Project Genesis, after the page loads, a dialogue box pops up with a picture of Shaw. If you read the text, it states that it's a part of the dossier of Shaw's research and that, "All content is considered classified until the mission is fully concluded." It's the kind of thing the Company would have in a file if someone within the company was accessing it.

Besides, the Prometheus mission wouldn't be the only big money secret the Company has.
 
Re: Paradise (Prometheus Sequel)

I read the opening scene much differently...but of course that's why I want to see it again!

Keeping myself from reading or watching anything about the movie before I saw it (which i think was the right choice!) has really put me behind in the speculation race, but I'll do my best to catch up.

I thought that the Engineer in the opening sene was committing suicide on the homeworld...after seeing the fleet off to go and destroy their creations. They wanted to kill themselves as well. Of course, it's just a theory. They seem like suicide missions. But then why were their holograms running? Actually I can't think of any reason they would be running...

Ugh. I think I'm gonna have to spend another $12.
 
Re: Paradise (Prometheus Sequel)

I thought that the Engineer in the opening sene was committing suicide on the homeworld...after seeing the fleet off to go and destroy their creations. They wanted to kill themselves as well. Of course, it's just a theory. They seem like suicide missions. But then why were their holograms running? Actually I can't think of any reason they would be running...

Only one logical explanation as to why their holograms were running: One of their pet projects got loose.
 
Re: Paradise (Prometheus Sequel)

I wonder if that was a case of "i dont have to outrun the goo, just the slowest engineer" or if it was some sort of sabotage from said engineer. I also wonder if it really matters anymore.
 
Re: Paradise (Prometheus Sequel)

I don't think it matters. It's not necessary to explain the outbreak on LV-233, how it occurred, and why they have not been back there in 2000 years. It happened, and reasons why they abandoned it are obvious.

Regarding what I would like to see in Paradise - David was very cruel and condescending to the humans on the Prometheus, especially Shaw, but not so much Weyland, his creator. He did say he wanted him dead and to be free, yes, but he also appeared to be enamored with him. He had a revelation of sorts at the end when Shaw wanted to go to where the Engineers came from, so I would like to see that dynamic explored, and a completely different character arc for David. He sees another facet of Shaw, and possibly humanity, and is now free of his creator, and the restrictions of his orders for this mission, so there are lots of interesting places that character arc could now go.

What I think would be less interesting is that when Shaw reasembles him, he then continues the same bad guy behavior from Prometheus.

As far as where the story goes, this needs to be a meet-your-maker story for Shaw, challenging her faith, a dynamic and revelatory story for David about what it is to have free will, and an exploration of who exactly the Engineers are and why they are doing what they are doing (or did).

Shaw is in a highly advanced ship that was barely explored in the film. All we know about these ships are that they have a very tough shell, still work after 2000 years, complex navigation, cryo sleep chambers, and that they apparently crash very easily :) The capabilities of that ship and what else is inside it could be very interesting to explore, as far as a coolness factor. It is also interesting to note that Shaw has some leverage to use against the Engineers. She has a ship that may be fully loaded with those ampules of death, as the crashed one had.

There were five stars in the cluster of the "invitation". They found the most habitable moon with LV-223, which apparently was just an installation to store ampules full of the nasty stuff. The Engineers home world is probably in one of those other systems, and Damon implied the Prometheus may have been in the wrong place to start with. This other place may not be the "paradise" Ridley is referring to, since the Engineers must have a creator as well, and Ridley said it is obviously not God. I like his description of the Engineers as "dark angles". An exploration of who the Engineers are and where they come from would be very bold and interesting, and Ridley's suggestion that their paradise is probably more like our hell is going to make for some dark story telling. Why they do what they do, and why they intended to destroy (or remake) us, if that is what they were really planning on doing 2000 years ago, needs to be fully explained.

Getting to more formally meet the Engineers as real characters who communicate with Shaw and David is something really I want to see, as well as exploring their culture, ideas on creation and their views on their own creator, or even worship. Potential for some really hard, intellectual sci-fi story telling here, but it will have to be blended with some good action and horror elements to sell it to the studio and make it dynamic. I really don't want to see any more xenos and face huggers in another film either, EVER, but they did open that door with the sculpture on the wall of the temple, and showing a blended version of one being born at the end. If they are simply another creation of the Engineers, it is odd their image would be on a temple wall. That temple may have been meant for humans, or the Aliens themselves. The giant head implies the Engineers were the ones being worshipped here. Perhaps the original version of the Alien species are what created the Engineers? There could be many reasons for them having that sculpture on the wall of that temple, but I would rather they never go back to this and leave it open. Ridley is right. The Aliens are done.
 
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Re: Paradise (Prometheus Sequel)

We also only saw male jockeys.
I did not see any indication that the Engineers were male, other than the physical appearance we would associate as male. They may have very well been sexless, and the lack of nipples and a belley button seem to imply this.

Besides, the Prometheus mission wouldn't be the only big money secret the Company has.

It may just be a line of dialogue, but Vickers saying "my company spent a billion dollars to find the place AND bring you here" sounded to me like they had already been to this system prior to the Prometheus being sent. "to find this place AND bring you here".
 
Re: Paradise (Prometheus Sequel)

Regarding what I would like to see in Paradise - David was very cruel and condescending to the humans on the Prometheus, especially Shaw, but not so much Weyland, his creator. He did say he wanted him dead and to be free, yes, but he also appeared to be enamored with him. He had a revelation of sorts at the end when Shaw wanted to go to where the Engineers came from, so I would like to see that dynamic explored, and a completely different character arc for David. He sees another facet of Shaw, and possibly humanity, and is now free of his creator, and the restrictions of his orders for this mission, so there are lots of interesting places that character arc could now go.

What I think would be less interesting is that when Shaw reasembles him, he then continues the same bad guy behavior from Prometheus.

While I completely agree with you, I can't imagine there won't be some line still in David to "bring one back." It really made me wonder on my second viewing if David is working from one set of directives (from Weyland) or from two, one from Weyland and one from the company. He seemed relatively intent on putting Shaw into cryo, but then was distracted by Weyland going to meet his maker.
 
Re: Paradise (Prometheus Sequel)

I am curious how they plan to handle the story of Shaw and David. It'll be difficult to handle something so big with only two characters that the audience can empathize with.

As for your comment about the Nostromo, it wouldn't surprise me if that ship was actually older than Prometheus. That may be a way of explaining the technological differences. Prometheus was obviously top of the line, but everyone's making the assumption that Nostromo was a new(ish) ship in Alien, when there's no evidence to that effect.. the ship may be forty or fifty years old by the time we see it. I think a mention was made somewhere that Weyland Industries was already well into various mining operations all over explored space, before Prometheus.

"USCSS NOSTROMO: The Nostromo was built during the years 2100 to 2103 A.D., registered to the Weyland-Yutani Corporation out of Panama (United Americas). In 2116, it was licensed with the Interstellar Commerce Commission (ICC) after refitting and refurbishment both as a commercial towing vehicle and for carriage and transportation of mining and exploratory equipment between Earth (Sol System) and 20 Reticuli."

That is from the Nostromo blueprints included in the ALIEN VAULT book. Dunno how "canon" you want to consider that, but it's authorized printing. Nostromo is not older than Prometheus. It's just low tech cause it's a tug. Makes perfect sense. I work at a nuclear power plant; people think it must all be high tech stuff. Nope, it's looks like its from the 60's, cause that's when it was designed. It works, so no point in spending the money to upgrade it. Same with Nostromo.

Charlie
 
Re: Paradise (Prometheus Sequel)

One possible scenario, Fox go back to the future and take Prometheus in an Aliens direction. Finding out about the engineers and all thats great about them might help us all sleep a little better at night but not the bill payers and profit speculators. All it takes is one Aston Martin driver at the meeting to say my kid had to think too much about the first one and boom, theres a ship full of Weyland/Yutani defence units heading back to LV whatever to see whats in them other pyramids or even back to the homeworld. "Dont you wanna meet ya maker Kowalski?" "Sure, right after he meets his" slapping the prototype pulse rifle he`s holding. Shaw and David? Never happened.

Just sayin. Scott has a potential two movies to make before returning to this story and at the end of the day he could walk away content he made the most talked about film in a loooooong time. He could also walk away saying "They wanted @#$%ing Space Jockeys and i gave em @#$^ing Space Jockeys up the ya ya and their still not @#$%ing happy."

I can even see "EAT THIS" written in paint on the side of the engineer ship by security palukas as they scream into the homeworld atmosphere.:thumbsup
 
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Re: Paradise (Prometheus Sequel)

While I completely agree with you, I can't imagine there won't be some line still in David to "bring one back." It really made me wonder on my second viewing if David is working from one set of directives (from Weyland) or from two, one from Weyland and one from the company. He seemed relatively intent on putting Shaw into cryo, but then was distracted by Weyland going to meet his maker.

I thought the same as I was watching that scene, and I have no doubt Weyland would have wanted his R&D guys to study it. I just really don't want the story to go back and repeat what has already done.

Now that David is free of his creator (if he truly is) I don't see a need to for him to go there. I think it will be more interesting to explore his freedom as an individual rather than as a servant following orders.
 
Re: Paradise (Prometheus Sequel)

Sometimes it is not the answers that are the important part in a story. It's the journey and the troubles you encounter and how you deal with them trying to find those answers that are the more rewarding story.

This is the reason many films fail... because... they "skip" the arduous journey and the troubles getting to things... and just go directly to it, then to the next, then the next, in a visual overload that never sticks. The harder it is to reach something, without knowing if you'll even find the answer at the end... the better it will feel when you finally come face to face with the answer.

If they just show Shaw and David landing in space jockey front lawn, gets invited to tea and gets everything presented in the first 5 minutes and everything in the beginning of the movie... then what is it worth? There's no journey, no discovery in that... and sometimes the answer isn't just given to you... you have to earn it... run through hoops to get to it... and it may even be denied to you to get it for various reasons.

How far are you willing to go for your answers? Isn't that the question raised? No one but David and to an extent Shaw made any real effort in attempting to find any answers... so I hope that doesn't carry over into the next one.
 
Re: Paradise (Prometheus Sequel)

Prometheus Sequel? Screenwriter Solves the Mystery of the Final Scene | Entertainment | TIME.com

Not really a mystery, but relevant comments from Lindeloff.

TIME: In that final scene, David wants to go to Earth, and Elizabeth wants to go to the alien home world. Where do you think they’re going?
Lindelof: I think they’re going where she wants to go. His fundamental programming has been scrapped. Weyland [the man who built and programmed him] is dead and so now his programming is coming from God knows where. Is he being programmed by Elizabeth, or is it his own internal curiosity now that Weyland isn’t telling him what to do any more? He’s always been interested in Elizabeth, remember that: He’s watching her dreams when she’s sleeping in much the same way that he watches Lawrence of Arabia. He’s a strange robot that has a curious crush on a human being, and when Weyland is eliminated, I think he is genuinely interested in what she’s interested in. He reaches out partly for survival, but partly out of curiosity, and I think he’s sincere that he’ll take her wherever she wants to go.
 
Re: Paradise (Prometheus Sequel)

Fair enough. I will admit that the scene made little sense to me.

If I was engineering a new species I don't think I would do it in a way that kills me. I mean why bother?

And as typical from a cult/insane religion, the older Engineer is sending the younger one to their deaths while the old one just keeps on trucking.
 
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