Prometheus (Post-release)

Kit Rae · Jul 22, 2012

CB2001 said:
But the problem is that we don't even know for certain if the "Proto Alien" (aka "The Deacon") featured in the film is the first xenomorph ever.

Considering the mural on the wall of the ampule chamber shows a xeno, eggs, face hugger, and chest burster, that indicates it already existed, and was probably being worshipped, or at least involved somehow in the Engineers worship.

Colin Droidmilk said:
But for me, this is space jockey badness. Gone from the head is all sense of the original's intriguing pathos - precisely as I predicted, by the way. Then there are the robot claw hands and the attempt to disengage the figure from the chair - with its sacrilegious break-up of the original's seamless flow from figure-belly to 'telescope'-support-thing.

Ridley specifically asked for the biomechanical elements to have more of a mechanical look in Prometheus. He purposefully wanted it to be different. I look at what we saw Alien - not just the pilot, but the whole derelict ship - as something much older and more "grown". As if the longer the organism had been in the chair, the more biologically fused it became with it.

Colin Droidmilk said:
By the way, are we Prometheus naysayers going to find ourselves alone in calling the 'Alien' version the 'space jockey' now, as Prom-fans go over to calling it an 'engineer'?

How many people actually liked the term "space-jockey"? I remember the first time I read that term used in The Book of Alien back in 1980. I thought it was very dumb and hokey. I know it was just a term the crew came up with, but it sounded like something a non sci-fi fan would come up with. Glad they never used that in the actual film. I always called it the pilot, even though we had no idea if that thing he grown into was a navigational device, a weapon, or what.

CB2001 · Jul 22, 2012

Kit Rae said:
Considering the mural on the wall of the ampule chamber shows a xeno, eggs, face hugger, and chest burster, that indicates it already existed, and was probably being worshipped, or at least involved somehow in the Engineers worship.

And if that's true, the report I read where someone said this film conflicted with the Alien vs. Predator films would also be incorrect too.

NAZGÛL · Jul 22, 2012

So people now complain about the film without having actually seen it?

Kit Rae · Jul 22, 2012

joatrash said:
I never really did like the idea of a HUMAN skull behind the clear dome.

It makes sense with the later invention that the Alien takes on characteristics of the host, but It's not something really visible in the film. As I recall, Giger said he put it in there more as something subliminal, but I think it is more to the point that he just loves skulls!

I never knew there was a skull in the design until I saw a photo of Giger sculpting the head, and read a caption saying Giger used a REAL human skull in the sculpt. I doubt anyone would do that today, and it's just another element of the original that adds to the horror.

Noeland · Jul 22, 2012

CB2001 said:
But the problem is that we don't even know for certain if the "Proto Alien" (aka "The Deacon") featured in the film is the first xenomorph ever. For all we know, the Deacon could very well be a similar xenomorph in appearance, but has no relation to the ones we see in Alien/Aliens/etc. I mean, there are thousands of species of birds, but it doesn't mean that all birds came from the same place in the world. Has Ridley Scott gone on record saying, "this is the very first alien from the series, ever?" The closest I've read is that he decided to do Prometheus without featuring the alien we know (and if what he says is true, then that means the Deacon is not the same alien species, but a distant cousin).

Scott has gone on record several times now to say that the ship on LV-426 is thousands of years old. It was already there during the events of Prometheus. The creatures we see in Prometheus have no direct lineage to the creatures in Alien, or the following films, except to show us that the technology the Engineers use creates similar types of bio weapons/life cycles, and it indirectly suggests that the engineers created the eggs found in the cargo hold of the ship in Alien.

And, I think the term "space jockey" is OK. I still use it. But I'm one of those fans who never defined that film or franchise by that creature, and was never all that enamored by the mystery of it. I never really cared what it was, it was just a cool set piece in the film for a few moments.

ghostryder · Jul 23, 2012

CB2001 · Jul 23, 2012

alienscollection.com said:

LOL! I hope it's a bit bigger than the standard Legoman. :lol

blakeh1 · Jul 23, 2012

Noeland said:
Scott has gone on record several times now to say that the ship on LV-426 is thousands of years old. It was already there during the events of Prometheus. The creatures we see in Prometheus have no direct lineage to the creatures in Alien, or the following films, except to show us that the technology the Engineers use creates similar types of bio weapons/life cycles, and it indirectly suggests that the engineers created the eggs found in the cargo hold of the ship in Alien.

And, I think the term "space jockey" is OK. I still use it. But I'm one of those fans who never defined that film or franchise by that creature, and was never all that enamored by the mystery of it. I never really cared what it was, it was just a cool set piece in the film for a few moments.

I like to think that the one that crashed on LV-426 was possibly one that may have been around when the mishap happened that killed the original group of engineers we see in Prometheus. Maybe it was part of that and the engineer there tried to escape and then of course we know what happened to him... If it had been there thousands of years wouldn;t that place it around that same time?

CB2001 · Jul 23, 2012

blakeh1 said:
I like to think that the one that crashed on LV-426 was possibly one that may have been around when the mishap happened that killed the original group of engineers we see in Prometheus. Maybe it was part of that and the engineer there tried to escape and then of course we know what happened to him... If it had been there thousands of years wouldn;t that place it around that same time?

So, you're thinking that the Engineer tried to escape on the nearest ship, and didn't check his cargo, thus leading to a facehugger and his death on another planet? Makes sense.

Jeyl · Jul 23, 2012

I'd like to think that the derelict from ALIEN was from an alien race that came from far far away and through blind luck crashed on LV-426. This whole "They are humans who created us!" is a bunch of nonsensical crap written and directed by a team who thinks that a decapitated head can still gasp without a thorax.

blakeh1 · Jul 23, 2012

Maybe he did know his cargo, he was just trying to get it to its destination before he bought the farm. maybe I am mistaken, but wasn't the premise that the Engineer's decided they should wipe out mankind around 2000 years ago, but whatever accident occured at that time stopped them, and the surving few went into stasis.

maybe they were preparing the eggs and readying the ship that came to crash land on LV-426 when that accident happened. On of the infected Engineers decided to try to complete the mission anyway and didn't make it as far as he hoped.

ghostryder · Jul 26, 2012

How Prometheus Should Have Ended - YouTube

Clutch · Jul 27, 2012

That would have been funny if all this hadn't been discussed to death already.

Jeyl · Jul 27, 2012

Clutch said:
That would have been funny if all this hadn't been discussed to death already.

It's not dead if the movie will still be around. I have a feeling it will be. Poor Charles. He says this release will be his most proudest work.

CB2001 · Jul 28, 2012

I know this is a thread that's been discussed to death and that it should die. I don't know if anyone else has brought this up in the tread (seriously it's hard to cover 71 pages worth of info to make sure), but it appears that Scott apparently had an idea about what the Space Jockey/Engineer and the ship on LV-426 we see in Alien was as far back as 2003, which apparently carried over into Prometheus. I'm watching the Blu-Ray (which includes of the 2003 audio commentary), and he says the following about it in between the changing of the "A Word of Warning" and "Kane's Descent" chapters: "I think the space jockey is actually somehow the pilot, and he's part of a military operation - if that's the word you want to apply to his world - and therefore, this is probably some kind of carrier. A weapon carrier, a biological or biomechanoid carrier of lethal eggs, inside of which are these small creatures that will actually fundamentally integrate - in a very aggressive way, into any society or any place it is dropped." In addition, during the bit where Ripley suits up, Scott talks about how the four Alien films mark basically one chapter of the whole story and that no one "has done a story about how the space jockey came to be or what the space jockey is." Even in the final shot, Signorney Weaver even states about how interesting it would be to "great to go back and see what their society is, if they have one."

I don't know if that still applies or is applicable, I just found out about it and thought it was an interesting detail that was let out long before Scott decided to do Prometheus. Has anyone else head this before?

NAZGÛL · Jul 29, 2012

Yeah, Ive heard him say that too.

Jeyl · Jul 30, 2012

CB2001 said:
I don't know if that still applies or is applicable, I just found out about it and thought it was an interesting detail that was let out long before Scott decided to do Prometheus. Has anyone else head this before?

I have, and no where in the commentary or documentaries does anyone say that the Space Jockeyw as a suit. I will not let that one go.

Also, there were some folks who wanted to go to the Space Jockey homeworld. In the Alien3 "Wreckage and Rage" documentary, Renny Harlin was approached and he wanted to go to the Alien home world. But the producers wanted none of that so they went with another alien movie with Ripley being the lone survivor of the previous movie again.

It's like 20th Century Fox did not want the alien franchise to do anything but focus solely on the xenomorphs in every possible way. It wasn't until the franchise was pretty much dead that they decided to finally do what Ridley Scott wanted to do.

Problem? Hire this writer to write the story.

Jon Spaihts, writer of The Darkest Hour..... A movie that is not only his sole credit at the time, but was also one of the most heavily panned films of the year. And in a move that surprised no one, the script wasn't that good, and Damon Lindelof was brought in to fix things and un-prequelize it. Again, the man who is carrying out a morbid love affair with JJ Abrams' mystery box was the guy they hired to rework the script. I'm very certain that his rewrites of World War Z will be hailed as a monumental achievement in script doctoring.

:eek
This picture represents those who created life on Earth. Please take that seriously.

knightdriver2001 · Jul 30, 2012

If I had to harbor a guess on the LV426 ship.

I would say that the chestbuster that popped out of the Jockey
was a queen and she had laid all of those eggs after the crash. She
just kept pumping them out for how ever many years she was down
there.

If she didn't die during that time, she made her way over to the colony
once all of there crew and family started getting face pumped. The face
hugger that Newts family brought back there (already attached) had birthed
the first alien which had somehow gotten the queen to come over or it was
a new queen entirely.

As for Prometheus, I was really excited to see this until i did. Was very
let down by the whole thing. just a poor concept from beginning to end.

Jeyl · Jul 30, 2012

knightdriver2001 said:
If I had to harbor a guess on the LV426 ship.

Here's my take. The derelict ship didn't crash. It actually landed on what I can assume was a holding area for the eggs. I just don't think that egg chamber is a part of the ship given the sheer size and how it's apparently under the ship. The reason the ship looks out the way it does and why you can't see the holding area was due to centuries of molten activity.

Whether the ship was loading or unloading the eggs, something happened to cause one of the eggs to be disturbed and unleash one of the face huggers. While the Space Jockey (NOT ENGINEER) tried to send out a warning to what happened, the face hogger got to him just in time for him not to finish the signal. Once it awoke, it's memory of the incident was wiped clean (as it happened to Kane) and before he could figure out why he was on the planet, boom.

Now, why the acid hole in the ground? I have some theories, but they're pretty far fetched. One theory I have is that the face hugger was able to excrete acid (Kane's melted instead of cracked helmet) and managed to get through the holding area into the Jockey's cabin. How? Well, there are some areas of the cargo hold where liquid drips upwards. :O

Birdie · Jul 30, 2012

Jon Spaihts, writer of The Darkest Hour..... A movie that is not only his sole credit at the time, but was also one of the most heavily panned films of the year. And in a move that surprised no one, the script wasn't that good, and Damon Lindelof was brought in to fix things and un-prequelize it

Actually, Spaihts was a script doctor on Darkest Hour. He rewrote Leslie Bonham's script, which was then rewritten again by director Chris Gorak.

Spaihts Alien prequel script was commissioned by Scott because Spaihts was seen as the 'go-to' guy for sci-fi thrillers due to a couple of unproduced scripts that were considered hot at that time.

Spaihts script was in place for a considerable period of pre-production, until Scott decided to run with the 'chariots of the gods' angle rather than a straight up prequel.

We don't know why Lindelof was brought in to re-write, but it's not inconceivable that it has to do with style rather than quality. The buzz has it that the original script was pretty good.

Prometheus (Post-release)

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