Graflex Variations: Facts and vs. Replica

l33tLX said:

This is most definitely the real deal so rest easy.
That being said, there is a seller on ebay, where I'm assuming this was purchased, that has a reputation for polishing/buffing 3 cells and selling them. He goes heavy on these things, so that's where the finish comes from as well as the rounding of the beer tab rivet and slide switch.
One other thing to mention also is that the clamp is of much older vintage than the top and bottom tube. Possibly swapped from another graflex.
Every part I see there is vintage though for sure

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I've been looking at these photos for a few days now and comparing them with my authentic Graflexes and with the Parks that I have (currently half-way into being converted to a ROTJ Shared Stunt). I don't want top stir things up or be a wet blanket but I really disagree and feel that this is a Parks or similar replica that's been fooled around with. I offer my opinion and will gladly withdraw if I am mistaken but the things that just look way "off" to me are the general overly shiny finish inside and along the edges of the bulb clamp area, the clamp lever, the slotted screw, and the slide switch. The slide switch in particular -- and the fact that it has been sanded down -- are major clues to me. No one has yet to nail the look of the slide switch exactly; especially the usual matte finish of the baseplate -- which here is very shiny and has a grain to the metal identical to the one from my Parks. The clamp lever has this same grain and brightness to the plating. All of which are very suspicious to me when combined with sanding, or whatever was done to the finish, that hasn't left any evidence of aging/damage in nooks and corners where you would expect to see it. In fact you see the opposite -- very bright plating where the sandpaper/steel wool has passed over things.

Again, I'll be happy to be wrong about this, and if my arguments/observations can all be countered then so much the better but to me it just looks "off" and I can't stop feeling that it just isn't right.

Dave C

dcarty said:

I've been looking at these photos for a few days now and comparing them with my authentic Graflexes and with the Parks that I have (currently half-way into being converted to a ROTJ Shared Stunt). I don't want top stir things up or be a wet blanket but I really disagree and feel that this is a Parks or similar replica that's been fooled around with. I offer my opinion and will gladly withdraw if I am mistaken but the things that just look way "off" to me are the general overly shiny finish inside and along the edges of the bulb clamp area, the clamp lever, the slotted screw, and the slide switch. The slide switch in particular -- and the fact that it has been sanded down -- are major clues to me. No one has yet to nail the look of the slide switch exactly; especially the usual matte finish of the baseplate -- which here is very shiny and has a grain to the metal identical to the one from my Parks. The clamp lever has this same grain and brightness to the plating. All of which are very suspicious to me when combined with sanding, or whatever was done to the finish, that hasn't left any evidence of aging/damage in nooks and corners where you would expect to see it. In fact you see the opposite -- very bright plating where the sandpaper/steel wool has passed over things.

Again, I'll be happy to be wrong about this, and if my arguments/observations can all be countered then so much the better but to me it just looks "off" and I can't stop feeling that it just isn't right.

Dave C

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It's all vintage 100%
Top tube: bunny ears have rivet, red button has a sharp bevel
Clamp: lever is machined not cast, dark color non machined lever pin with no head
Bottom tube: manufactured by graflex not made by folmer with new York spelled out like a parks

This is an older clamp however on newer generation tubes. Normally you would find this style clamp, specifically the lever, on bottom tubes marked made by folmer graflex (with or without pat. no.), and top tubes with straight brass pins, and most of the time with the incorrect knurled red button

And again tree is a seller on ebay who does this to a lot of 3 cells. It would seem mixing and matching parts to obtain what he thinks are the nicest looking complete units. Very sad as to us collectors we appreciate all the dings, dents, and natural patina

Thanks to the both of you for your input. Like I said, I'm about 90% sure it's the real deal. Ignoring the polished areas, it looks good. And this was indeed bought from ebay from a seller who has sold quite a few 3 Cells. In fact he has another one up for auction that ends today. I won't get anymore specific than that as I don't want to break any forum rules. I unscrewed the glass eye and red button this morning and they look legit to me. Again, any input is much appreciated. Here are a few more pics.

It looks like fake ageing to me. Also if it has been really polished up, I'd expect an authentic unit to be showing more of a brass tone through the plating.
I may be wrong though.

MClass said:

Graflex experts, I need your help. After looking at all the reference material here I'm about 90% sure my Graflex is the real thing but I want to make sure before I convert it into an ANH Luke saber.

Profile:

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1571/25713842683_51dcf5bb2a_c.jpg

Red Button:
*Chamfered edges on the rivet holding the beer tab looks to have been polished off. Entire area looks shiny.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1489/25711741434_2effb0169d_c.jpg

Pins:

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1474/26224195612_069d0944fc_c.jpg

Clamp:

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1634/26250365981_c999c5cbc6_c.jpg

Glass Eye:

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1587/26250365531_338a262234_c.jpg

Internals:
*Internals on bottom half looks to have been removed, lots of corrosion.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1712/26224192082_f09f2df15c_c.jpg

Bottom stamping:

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1572/26043733960_dd997e5884_c.jpg

Am I good to go? Thanks for any input!

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looks real but terribly restored

In my opinion, what he does is a little shady. Most of them are sanded and refinished to the point where the edges are rounded off (like on the rivet and slide button) and the seller doesn't mention it at all in the listings.

I assume he worked on them with a polishing wheel, not by hand. That would also explain the even surface with the heavy wear at corners, they take material off if you are no expert or use them to hard to get a "better" look.

Destroyed any aging that could give a additional hint - i still think it´s real, but not convinced enough to bet any money.

Thanks everyone for their input, it is much appreciated.

Yeah. The finish is so screwed up on that flash. You can see how buffed out it is and it wasn't even taken apart to do it. The grain takes the easiest direction of a polishing tool. Look at the ears..

Agreed. It's a real flash and the bottom has the correct spacing. The clamp is an earlier model than the top and bottom. Why someone would want to clean the "vintage" right off of one of these though...???

For MonkeyHeads ...Hi I didn´t made the interior tabs in my replica clamp but it secured the two halves pretty well just my two cents. Cheers!
http://www.therpf.com/showthread.php?t=236024

Fabian 71 said:

For MonkeyHeads ...Hi I didn´t made the interior tabs in my replica clamp but it secured the two halves pretty well just my two cents. Cheers!
http://www.therpf.com/showthread.php?t=236024

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Thanks for the tips Fabian! Your replica is outstanding by the way. Wish I knew a feasible way to raise the surface of the tube so it could be flush whenever I make a replica red button and glass eye.

Mind if I asked how you made yours?

"For the Jedi it is time to eat as well"

May be this could help http://www.therpf.com/showthread.php?t=238694

How very cool

Fabian 71 said:

May be this could help http://www.therpf.com/showthread.php?t=238694

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You're a saint! Have no idea if I can achieve that mechanism but I'm determined to give it a try! Thanks again

"For the Jedi it is time to eat as well"

I bought some Graflex's off this seller and same exact thing, polished to a mirror, not mentioned in the original listing, just said "blemishes"..

Lichtbringer said:

I assume he worked on them with a polishing wheel, not by hand. That would also explain the even surface with the heavy wear at corners, they take material off if you are no expert or use them to hard to get a "better" look.

Destroyed any aging that could give a additional hint - i still think it´s real, but not convinced enough to bet any money.

Click to expand...

I have a question for you graflex experts. Since I found out a Folmer New York graflex was used for the wampa cave, I've searched relentlessly for one. It seems impossible to get one the same model that L33tLX has in his picture some pages back. His has the right red button with the long knurling and smooth nonsleeved pins. I've owned two Folmer New Yorks in the last 6 months. I've since sold one but both had sleeved pins. The folmer new yorks are "rare" in the sense that only one pops up on ebay every couple of Weeks/Months and now go for crazy money (850+). However the pins and buttons are all over the place. Some pins are smooth and some sleeved. Some have the red button with short knurling and some not. Some have the right old style clamp lever that has the nonmachined lever pin while others have the nice machined lever pin. It's frustratingly all over the map.

So what is the consensus for the wampa cave saber? I know of the correct bottom but does any one know if it should have smooth pins? Shiny clamp lever with nonmachined lever pin?

The reason why I ask is I only have three graflexes left in my collection. I've bought and sold a few in the last few months in an effort to get enough to make an ANH, ESB, and TFA saber. One is your more common graflex bottom with the sleeved pins. One is a graflex bottom but with smooth pins. Finally the last is my Folmer New York but unfortunately with the sleeved pins and clamp with the new style lever. I feel like I can only split hairs on accuracy up to a point until it doesn't become financially possibly for me to go further. For instance I not even sure I'm going to spend another couple hundred getting a real kobold or exactra. Does it make sense for me to mix and match and put the graflex top with the smooth pins on my Folmer New York bottom in the name of accuracy? I know, guess it's a personal question but what would you all do?

Oh, and regarding that ebayer, I too had bought one of his heavily polished graflexes before I found this thread a long time ago. He does seem to sand down the graflexes pretty heavily. Some people would lament that the natural weathering and patina is lost. The chamfer on the beer tab is lost as well because he sands so heavily. Others like that his graflexes look shiny and corrosion free. I decided I wanted a graflex that was not polished so heavily and sold the one I bought from him. I agree though, he should place in the description that the graflexes have been polished so buyers are not surprised like I was.

more than likely, the buttons were swapped out or around from the few they had. The short knurl ended up on the rotating blade version used in obi's hut. The long knurl MIGHT have come on the ANH hilt which I think was also an early folmer.

I wouldn't obsess too much over it. Likely it was smooth pins and folmer no patent graflex. The button I would just get the right long knurls and be done. Don't worry whether they actually CAME on the flash, because there's no telling for sure.

Thanks Scott! So long knurl button, smooth pins and folmer no patent. I'll be doing some mixing and matching tonight. It's really hard not to obsess because I'm quite OCD and such great research has been done by the fellows here. But you're right at some point I have to draw a line for my sanity and pocketbook.

I did a lot of mixing and matching between my own Graflexes as well. And remember you can swap out just the pins too if you wanted.


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