jedimaster
Sr Member
Looking forward to some pix... I have 4 x- wings to build. This has just changed everything.
X wings were not white!!!!
- Thread starter SD Studios
- Start date
dexter1138
Well-Known Member
I thought they were Reefer White and Grime mixed 50-50, looks very close to the final model. Edlund and Peterson have both said on the record the ships weren't white.
Dex
Pics below, not White, not White, not White, not White even with flash on a few.
Dex
Pics below, not White, not White, not White, not White even with flash on a few.
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This makes me happy that I've decided to build some BSG stuff lately, and not any SW. I can't wait to see what the outcome of this thread is.
dexter1138
Well-Known Member
Not White!
Dex
Dex
OK a little more fuel onto the fire.
Preface - I do not claim the following to be fact but it makes sense to me.
I read in my digging a LONG time ago that the original color of the ANH models was actually a Krylon primer called "Plantium gray primer". Knowing what color plantium is, and the color of the other primers they make, I thought it very odd that they would bother to make an off-white super light gray primer. So I investigated, and it turns out that at one time they actually did make a primer with that name, but it its no longer made. I scoured and found a place that claimed to have it - I ordered it, but received a case of the standard Med gray primer avaialble today (This was many years ago BTW)...
So long story a little shorter I find it very plausible that the originals were a very light gray offwhite color that came out of a rattlecan. But also that this formula no longer is available, and we can only speculate as to the real original color.
Fuel Added...
Jedi Dade
Preface - I do not claim the following to be fact but it makes sense to me.
I read in my digging a LONG time ago that the original color of the ANH models was actually a Krylon primer called "Plantium gray primer". Knowing what color plantium is, and the color of the other primers they make, I thought it very odd that they would bother to make an off-white super light gray primer. So I investigated, and it turns out that at one time they actually did make a primer with that name, but it its no longer made. I scoured and found a place that claimed to have it - I ordered it, but received a case of the standard Med gray primer avaialble today (This was many years ago BTW)...
So long story a little shorter I find it very plausible that the originals were a very light gray offwhite color that came out of a rattlecan. But also that this formula no longer is available, and we can only speculate as to the real original color.
Fuel Added...
Jedi Dade
SD Studios
Well-Known Member
Lunch break!
Wow. Look at you guys getting all frazzled. :lol
"Looks like I hit a nerve there, huh?"
You DO know, this is all firmly tongue in cheek...right?
RIGHT?
Ralphee. You can calm down. I am not claiming to be "god" or better than anyone else. I am just funnin'. Getting in a snit over my joking posts is kinda silly.
Take a valium. They are TOY-EEEES! :lol
That being said, I would love to see people here do a better job on these models. I think some better reference and general coaching and info on how the originals were done (or techniques to make the replicas LOOK like that) will take many of these amazing builds to "the next level". I am happy to help out as time allows.
I just don't have the time to write a doctoral thesis right at the moment. I have a quarter million pics to go through as well. Literally.
Soon. Soon.
Somebody gimme an e-mail or place to send pics to and please post them for me. I don't want to get into all of that mishigas. Oy.
Probably a new thread as well. Too much angst here. :lol
Wow. Look at you guys getting all frazzled. :lol
"Looks like I hit a nerve there, huh?"
You DO know, this is all firmly tongue in cheek...right?
RIGHT?
Ralphee. You can calm down. I am not claiming to be "god" or better than anyone else. I am just funnin'. Getting in a snit over my joking posts is kinda silly.
Take a valium. They are TOY-EEEES! :lol
That being said, I would love to see people here do a better job on these models. I think some better reference and general coaching and info on how the originals were done (or techniques to make the replicas LOOK like that) will take many of these amazing builds to "the next level". I am happy to help out as time allows.
I just don't have the time to write a doctoral thesis right at the moment. I have a quarter million pics to go through as well. Literally.
Soon. Soon.
Somebody gimme an e-mail or place to send pics to and please post them for me. I don't want to get into all of that mishigas. Oy.
Probably a new thread as well. Too much angst here. :lol
Steve, you'll get a set, of course!
I also think Blue 1 is an aberration - it was the first one made, and wasn't dirtied up like the rest were (at least until it was modified into Red 2). You are 100% correct in that everything we laid our eyes on in the archives was grey, tannish gray, taupe 'n grey, green gray, blue gray, etc etc.
Lee, I think Red Jammer was re-weathered when it was finished off. Probably made dirtier - in fact, definitely made more "tan" because you can see the overspray that was applied so completely in some areas that it obscures decals.
I've see the "TIE Killer" Y as it looks today (it is in a private collection), and it has been locked away for almost 30 years - and it sure as heck looks WHITE in the unweathered areas. Besides those unweathered areas, you can see a few missing greeblies/armature cover/blue electrical plug covers, and underneath the "primer" is WHITE. raw resin and WHITE. So there's that to think about, which just makes things worse.
I also think Blue 1 is an aberration - it was the first one made, and wasn't dirtied up like the rest were (at least until it was modified into Red 2). You are 100% correct in that everything we laid our eyes on in the archives was grey, tannish gray, taupe 'n grey, green gray, blue gray, etc etc.
Lee, I think Red Jammer was re-weathered when it was finished off. Probably made dirtier - in fact, definitely made more "tan" because you can see the overspray that was applied so completely in some areas that it obscures decals.
I've see the "TIE Killer" Y as it looks today (it is in a private collection), and it has been locked away for almost 30 years - and it sure as heck looks WHITE in the unweathered areas. Besides those unweathered areas, you can see a few missing greeblies/armature cover/blue electrical plug covers, and underneath the "primer" is WHITE. raw resin and WHITE. So there's that to think about, which just makes things worse.
Steve, you shoudl get a Flickr account - it lets you make sets, groups, etc
Like this (of course, I need to organize mine a little better...)
roboterkampf's photosets on Flickr
Like this (of course, I need to organize mine a little better...)
roboterkampf's photosets on Flickr
Thanks Jason, so white WAS used in some way shape or form, on some of the the props, that were used in filming....i got all that.
Steve, sorry dude, your right, i took the blue pill, all is well, cant wait to see more, oh wait, i just plain cant wait to see bud.
lee
I'd be happy to post anything you want
I too, think your mistaking humour for angst. So where all on an even keel.
Lets re thread this thread with the reason you started it, and back pedal to the pics.
Feel free if you haven't already done so guytcowen@mac.com
I too, think your mistaking humour for angst. So where all on an even keel.
Lets re thread this thread with the reason you started it, and back pedal to the pics.
Feel free if you haven't already done so guytcowen@mac.com
is the pilot in the first picture wearing a Formula 1 motor racing helmet
-... . .- --..
Sr Member
I'm not sure I understand the implied "controversy" here.
Is the original poster claiming that by looking at a thirty-something year old model in the Archives that he knows precisely how that particular model was painted every step of the way?
Or is he arguing that it isn't white in its finished state?
If it's the former, he's claiming some direct knowledge of a finishing process for which we all know he wasn't present. If the latter, he's not telling us anything we don't already know. Does anyone here actually think that the finished models are white?
We have in-progress pictures of some of these things painted in what appears to be white primer. We also have in-progress pictures of some of them painted in what appears to be black primer. If the OP is claiming that these miniatures were never white, is he also arguing that they weren't ever painted black?
Can he look at the Mona Lisa and tell us that it was never white? I mean, like a finished X-Wing miniature, it's not white now, but how does he know that it wasn't white to begin with?
Is the original poster claiming that by looking at a thirty-something year old model in the Archives that he knows precisely how that particular model was painted every step of the way?
Or is he arguing that it isn't white in its finished state?
If it's the former, he's claiming some direct knowledge of a finishing process for which we all know he wasn't present. If the latter, he's not telling us anything we don't already know. Does anyone here actually think that the finished models are white?
We have in-progress pictures of some of these things painted in what appears to be white primer. We also have in-progress pictures of some of them painted in what appears to be black primer. If the OP is claiming that these miniatures were never white, is he also arguing that they weren't ever painted black?
Can he look at the Mona Lisa and tell us that it was never white? I mean, like a finished X-Wing miniature, it's not white now, but how does he know that it wasn't white to begin with?
CaptCBoard
Well-Known Member
When I first started working in the movie model biz, in 1984, I was determined to do one thing-- get my hands on original castings from an X-wing. That never happened. But in my search, I did come across the people who had worked at ILM. The models were all based out using Krylon Platinum Gray Primer. This primer was very similar to Testors Camouflage Gray, which was just a tad bit darker and slightly pink. At the time I found this out, the Krylon paint was still available. I looked for it years later and found that despite it having the same name, the color was much darker.
I also found out that the technique of gloss white over black primer and then rubbing through the white with steel wood was done as an experiment on a couple of the models. They did use the technique in spots, though, like the nose so they could get that 'almost shiny yet broken down' look.
The question of why white was not used as the base color is simple. When subtle aging or weathering is applied, the camera only sees white in the most subtle areas. You can get close to a very large model that has been painted white, but if you set the camera at a distance, all it sees is white. The shadows go away, most of the other colors go away... and this is why the MF was a light gray. This does not mean areas can not be white, just the model as a whole. I have been on shoots where a model was repainted because of the distance to the camera. As modelers today, one thing to keep in mind is that none of the shots we have seen in these films were done with any element being digital or composited digitally. It was all chemistry and light.
If you have a gray model and shoot it one or two f-stops overexposed, that gray model will look white. If a gray model is composite-printed onto a second piece of film, it will look brighter, not as gray. When that is projected onto a screen, our eye sees the gray as white. Ever shot a gray model with a flash and have it look white? With the subtle nature of professional film and the knowledge and experience FX guys have, all kinds of whacky things have to be done to get the things to look right on film. When I was working on King Kong Lives (yeah, I know...) we had to paint the 1:6 scale operating theater 2-stops gray so when they exposed for the guy in the monkey suit, the operating theater would look white! If the room was left white, the guy in the suit would just look like a black, monkey shaped thing or a great looking monkey suit in a REALLY bright room, depending on which way the exposure was leaned.
Back in those days, they also had a post-production option to tinker with called 'printing lights'. By tweaking the RGB printing lights, colors and image density could be changed, commonly referred to as Color Correction. A lot of times, compromises had to be made between the elements in a given shot and the best image they could produce still had those dreaded garbage matte boxes around some elements!
The question of what color these things were should really be simply answered "Just paint it as you see it". I really understand the desire to get things right, but in this case right is either how it was actually painted versus how it appears on film. The question is not how it was painted, but what do you want to wind up with: A model of an X-wing or a replica of an FX shooting model. The FX model was the thing on the blue pylon. The model of an X-wing is what we all saw on film.
Scott
I also found out that the technique of gloss white over black primer and then rubbing through the white with steel wood was done as an experiment on a couple of the models. They did use the technique in spots, though, like the nose so they could get that 'almost shiny yet broken down' look.
The question of why white was not used as the base color is simple. When subtle aging or weathering is applied, the camera only sees white in the most subtle areas. You can get close to a very large model that has been painted white, but if you set the camera at a distance, all it sees is white. The shadows go away, most of the other colors go away... and this is why the MF was a light gray. This does not mean areas can not be white, just the model as a whole. I have been on shoots where a model was repainted because of the distance to the camera. As modelers today, one thing to keep in mind is that none of the shots we have seen in these films were done with any element being digital or composited digitally. It was all chemistry and light.
If you have a gray model and shoot it one or two f-stops overexposed, that gray model will look white. If a gray model is composite-printed onto a second piece of film, it will look brighter, not as gray. When that is projected onto a screen, our eye sees the gray as white. Ever shot a gray model with a flash and have it look white? With the subtle nature of professional film and the knowledge and experience FX guys have, all kinds of whacky things have to be done to get the things to look right on film. When I was working on King Kong Lives (yeah, I know...) we had to paint the 1:6 scale operating theater 2-stops gray so when they exposed for the guy in the monkey suit, the operating theater would look white! If the room was left white, the guy in the suit would just look like a black, monkey shaped thing or a great looking monkey suit in a REALLY bright room, depending on which way the exposure was leaned.
Back in those days, they also had a post-production option to tinker with called 'printing lights'. By tweaking the RGB printing lights, colors and image density could be changed, commonly referred to as Color Correction. A lot of times, compromises had to be made between the elements in a given shot and the best image they could produce still had those dreaded garbage matte boxes around some elements!
The question of what color these things were should really be simply answered "Just paint it as you see it". I really understand the desire to get things right, but in this case right is either how it was actually painted versus how it appears on film. The question is not how it was painted, but what do you want to wind up with: A model of an X-wing or a replica of an FX shooting model. The FX model was the thing on the blue pylon. The model of an X-wing is what we all saw on film.
Scott
Thanks Scott. Good info!
I just found the 2005 thread where you posted the same thing pretty much!
http://www.therpf.com/f10/paint-colors-x-wing-snow-speeder-915/
I just found the 2005 thread where you posted the same thing pretty much!
http://www.therpf.com/f10/paint-colors-x-wing-snow-speeder-915/
