Amish Trooper
Sr Member
This will be the best miata ever. Oh and I love Devo lol
littlecabezas
New Member
the 66 Batmobile is the best ever, can't wait to see your updates. I really like the roadster idea, hope the bubble style windsheild is a part of your build.
Jack_Fauth
Active Member
you know i see all the stuff you are doing but i don't see how any of this will work, making a foam core frame is far from a body kit that won't blow off as soon as you hit the road. If this is just to sit in your drive way then hey good going. But real world ...i don't see it...sorry
Smiling Demon
Sr Member
I had my doubts but this is shaping up nicely!
This is the craziest thing i have ever seen ................. i love it.:thumbsup
What i want to know is when you sat down and visualised this in your head how did you come up the idea of Using Foam, i would never have thought of that in a million years ............
When its complete how structurally sound will it be you mentioned earlier you could lift the front end with one finger, i have visions of the first day you take this bad boy out on the road the foam frame will fly off (i hope it doesnt by the way) just intrigued how you came up with the idea.
What i want to know is when you sat down and visualised this in your head how did you come up the idea of Using Foam, i would never have thought of that in a million years ............
When its complete how structurally sound will it be you mentioned earlier you could lift the front end with one finger, i have visions of the first day you take this bad boy out on the road the foam frame will fly off (i hope it doesnt by the way) just intrigued how you came up with the idea.
creebobby
Well-Known Member
Good questions.
Enter: epoxy resin.
View attachment 49361
I plan to use epoxy resin and fiberglass/carbon fiber tape to strengthen the foam skeleton. Once the skeleton is solid enough so that a pretty half naked girl can sit on the front corner without it breaking (or alternately, so that I can drive all day at 90mph without danger of it breaking apart) I plan to attach a skin (possibly cardstock pepakura style, possibly facets of black coated aluminum flashing, possibly cardstock covered with fiberglass, possibly silk glued on shrunk and then doped like an airplane, etc. etc.).
The end result might be semi-faceted, but I planned that from the beginning.
Here's a dummy section that I epoxied this morning:
View attachment 49362
You can't tell in the picture, but the whole thing is glazed like a doughnut in epoxy resin. I also cut fiberglass tape into 1/2" strips and laid those onto the tops of the ribs. The cutting made the tape a bit too stringy and messy, so I've since ordered the tape in 3/4" width - the exact width of the ribs - in both fiberglass and carbon fiber.
Enter: epoxy resin.
View attachment 49361
I plan to use epoxy resin and fiberglass/carbon fiber tape to strengthen the foam skeleton. Once the skeleton is solid enough so that a pretty half naked girl can sit on the front corner without it breaking (or alternately, so that I can drive all day at 90mph without danger of it breaking apart) I plan to attach a skin (possibly cardstock pepakura style, possibly facets of black coated aluminum flashing, possibly cardstock covered with fiberglass, possibly silk glued on shrunk and then doped like an airplane, etc. etc.).
The end result might be semi-faceted, but I planned that from the beginning.
Here's a dummy section that I epoxied this morning:
View attachment 49362
You can't tell in the picture, but the whole thing is glazed like a doughnut in epoxy resin. I also cut fiberglass tape into 1/2" strips and laid those onto the tops of the ribs. The cutting made the tape a bit too stringy and messy, so I've since ordered the tape in 3/4" width - the exact width of the ribs - in both fiberglass and carbon fiber.
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creebobby
Well-Known Member
Good suggestion.
Yes, Polyester resin (i.e. bondo brand) will melt styrofoam.
I got epoxy resin because there is no chance of it eating foam - (no solvents).
Earlier I'd gotten polyester resin and set up tests - it ate through every primer I tried, including a coat of spray-paint over a thick coat of Killz. The solvents in the spray paint weren't enough to penetrate through the Killz, but the polyester resin seeped through over the few hours it sets and slightly deformed the surface into a pock-marked bacon.
The only thing I could find to work perfectly was to coat the foam in a layer of aluminum tape, then resin over that.
But I hadn't tried (or found) a styrofoam specific primer.
In any case, I went with epoxy to eliminate the problem altogether -
However, it looks like I might be very allergic to the epoxy.
I laid up that sample yesterday with nitrile gloves on, being very careful not to get any on my skin. Within an hour of finishing I was weirdly itchy and sunburnt/rashy feeling in various phantom places all over my body, but mostly face and neck (the only skin exposed when I did the work). I still feel a little weird and itchy today.
Since the epoxy works so nice with the foam (and it was so darn expensive), I'm tempted to try another session with a Tyvek suit, respirator, swimming goggles and barrier cream (all these suggestions I found online). Still, I'm a bit spooked, because apparently expoxy resin allergy gets worse with each exposure.
I saw on an RC plane message board that they use water based polyurethane varnish to seal EPS. I already have some of that, so I might try a tester piece.
Does anyone have any other suggestions?
Yes, Polyester resin (i.e. bondo brand) will melt styrofoam.
I got epoxy resin because there is no chance of it eating foam - (no solvents).
Earlier I'd gotten polyester resin and set up tests - it ate through every primer I tried, including a coat of spray-paint over a thick coat of Killz. The solvents in the spray paint weren't enough to penetrate through the Killz, but the polyester resin seeped through over the few hours it sets and slightly deformed the surface into a pock-marked bacon.
The only thing I could find to work perfectly was to coat the foam in a layer of aluminum tape, then resin over that.
But I hadn't tried (or found) a styrofoam specific primer.
In any case, I went with epoxy to eliminate the problem altogether -
However, it looks like I might be very allergic to the epoxy.
I laid up that sample yesterday with nitrile gloves on, being very careful not to get any on my skin. Within an hour of finishing I was weirdly itchy and sunburnt/rashy feeling in various phantom places all over my body, but mostly face and neck (the only skin exposed when I did the work). I still feel a little weird and itchy today.
Since the epoxy works so nice with the foam (and it was so darn expensive), I'm tempted to try another session with a Tyvek suit, respirator, swimming goggles and barrier cream (all these suggestions I found online). Still, I'm a bit spooked, because apparently expoxy resin allergy gets worse with each exposure.
I saw on an RC plane message board that they use water based polyurethane varnish to seal EPS. I already have some of that, so I might try a tester piece.
Does anyone have any other suggestions?
Abelugo
Sr Member
man! too bad to head about your allergy to the resin! I had a schoolmate that got resin on his had and broke out in hives really bad in seconds. I've used so many solvents and resins in my jobs that I've gotten a thick skin to withstand most of it- safety is way more important than a prop. There is another way of getting to where you want to build a fiberglass mold, it's the plaster/vermiculite method, like Ed Roth used on his hot rods
USING VERMICULITE PLASTER TO MAKE MODELS AND/OR PERLITE/VERMICULITE CONCRETE FOR SCULPTING---THE SCHUNDLER COMPANY
might be a way to go, and could be cheaper.
Also I'm a member of the HAMB a DYI traditional hotrodder forum
here are some links that may help
http://www.edrothworld.com/home/?Show_Cars
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=520912&highlight=vermiculite
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48192&highlight=vermiculite
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32906&highlight=fiberglass+sculpting&showall=1
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=536189&highlight=fiberglass+sculpting&showall=1
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=480577&highlight=roswell+rod+fritz
USING VERMICULITE PLASTER TO MAKE MODELS AND/OR PERLITE/VERMICULITE CONCRETE FOR SCULPTING---THE SCHUNDLER COMPANY
might be a way to go, and could be cheaper.
Also I'm a member of the HAMB a DYI traditional hotrodder forum
here are some links that may help
http://www.edrothworld.com/home/?Show_Cars
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=520912&highlight=vermiculite
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48192&highlight=vermiculite
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32906&highlight=fiberglass+sculpting&showall=1
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=536189&highlight=fiberglass+sculpting&showall=1
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=480577&highlight=roswell+rod+fritz
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Edward H
Well-Known Member
You could use two part urethane casting plastic to coat your ribs as it should be safe for foam and will cure very hard. Then you can use regular polyester fleece streched over your ribbing like they use to make custom subwoofers and speaker boxes in cars. Instead of the epoxy resin the urethane resin should work with the fleece... Another plus is there are no toxic fumes with urethane. This is going to be kind of heavy but i assume you are going to just use this as the buck to make a mold from.
creebobby
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the ideas and links - I always love checking out Ed Roth's rods - his last one was Geo powered!
I laid up some more tests, trying to find something cheap and easy and non-toxic to coat the skeleton with so that Polyester resin won't eat it - I've had the best luck with a thick coat of elmer's white glue, and also with foamboard adhesive which comes in a caulking tube at HD. I think I'll use a combination of both to seal up the bones, then paint it all with polyester resin, then lay up 3/4" wide fiberglass woven tape along all the bones top and bottom.
Doc, I'm actually planning to use what I'm building now as the final kit.
I'm depending upon the honeycomb structure of the skeleton to lend its strength so I can keep the whole kit super light.
After I have the skeleton glassed, I will probably apply some spot bondo to the top surface to get the bones all level with each other, more or less. Then I'll apply a skin - I still have to run tests to see what material will work best, but I might use SIG Koverall - a heat shrinkable polyester fabric used for large scale model airplanes. I'll paint the skin with polyester resin, flip the thing over and fiberglass the skin from behind. I might just leave it like that - semi-faceted like an airplane or airstream - until the whole thing is done and functional and I feel like taking it to stage 2 (smoothed out), which would involve lightweight body filler and maybe more fiberglass and a lot of sanding.
My goal though is to not have to sand into fiberglass cloth ever. Like Ed Roth says in those links, the stuff is worse than itching powder - and highly carcinogenic.
I laid up some more tests, trying to find something cheap and easy and non-toxic to coat the skeleton with so that Polyester resin won't eat it - I've had the best luck with a thick coat of elmer's white glue, and also with foamboard adhesive which comes in a caulking tube at HD. I think I'll use a combination of both to seal up the bones, then paint it all with polyester resin, then lay up 3/4" wide fiberglass woven tape along all the bones top and bottom.
Doc, I'm actually planning to use what I'm building now as the final kit.
I'm depending upon the honeycomb structure of the skeleton to lend its strength so I can keep the whole kit super light.
After I have the skeleton glassed, I will probably apply some spot bondo to the top surface to get the bones all level with each other, more or less. Then I'll apply a skin - I still have to run tests to see what material will work best, but I might use SIG Koverall - a heat shrinkable polyester fabric used for large scale model airplanes. I'll paint the skin with polyester resin, flip the thing over and fiberglass the skin from behind. I might just leave it like that - semi-faceted like an airplane or airstream - until the whole thing is done and functional and I feel like taking it to stage 2 (smoothed out), which would involve lightweight body filler and maybe more fiberglass and a lot of sanding.
My goal though is to not have to sand into fiberglass cloth ever. Like Ed Roth says in those links, the stuff is worse than itching powder - and highly carcinogenic.
creebobby
Well-Known Member
So I did a whole bunch of work on the front with balsa wood. Since I'm going to skin the kit with some kind of stretchable or shrinkable material, I need every inside edge to be pre-sculpted so that every edge of each piece of fabric has something to hold onto.
View attachment 50434
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creebobby
Well-Known Member
Mounting Pods!
I installed mounting pods onto the kit.
I cut a section of pvc pipe for each spot where a bolt will secure the kit to the stock miata hood. (Yes, I'm going to drill holes in my car.)
View attachment 50435
I used pipe big enough so that I can run fiberglass cloth through it to make the mounting spots super strong, but also so that I'll have room to adjust where the kit mounts.
View attachment 50436
Looking underneath the hood, I found ideal mounting spots that would go through both layers of the hood's honeycomb structure. I marked these on top.
View attachment 50437
I made new foamies and marked where to center the pvc pipe sections.
View attachment 50438
All eight mounting spots, installed and looking good:
View attachment 50439
I also made mounting pods for the headlights. The only knife that would fit in the headlight pockets was my trusty McGuyver Special:
View attachment 50440
Done!
View attachment 50441
Public Service Announcement - hot glue is very hot. I just got my first blistering hot glue burn for this project. Some super-heated glue dribbled off a mounting pod onto my finger. I was dancing around the yard shouting curses when my next door neighbor came out to get her mail. I might have appeared insane. (Of course the half of a styrofoam Batmobile in the yard isn't weird at all).
View attachment 50442
I installed mounting pods onto the kit.
I cut a section of pvc pipe for each spot where a bolt will secure the kit to the stock miata hood. (Yes, I'm going to drill holes in my car.)
View attachment 50435
I used pipe big enough so that I can run fiberglass cloth through it to make the mounting spots super strong, but also so that I'll have room to adjust where the kit mounts.
View attachment 50436
Looking underneath the hood, I found ideal mounting spots that would go through both layers of the hood's honeycomb structure. I marked these on top.
View attachment 50437
I made new foamies and marked where to center the pvc pipe sections.
View attachment 50438
All eight mounting spots, installed and looking good:
View attachment 50439
I also made mounting pods for the headlights. The only knife that would fit in the headlight pockets was my trusty McGuyver Special:
View attachment 50440
Done!
View attachment 50441
Public Service Announcement - hot glue is very hot. I just got my first blistering hot glue burn for this project. Some super-heated glue dribbled off a mounting pod onto my finger. I was dancing around the yard shouting curses when my next door neighbor came out to get her mail. I might have appeared insane. (Of course the half of a styrofoam Batmobile in the yard isn't weird at all).
View attachment 50442
Metalalien
Sr Member
I got one of those on my knee!
Themovieman
New Member
I cannot wait for the finished product. Looks like fun.
I love your progress updates and all the photos! Thanks for sharing them.
This is the first time I've seen half-naked girls suggested for testing the structural strength of a prototype auto body kit. Nice to know they have other uses.
The only thing that makes a project like this more satisfying is having naysayers post that what you're doing is impossible or doomed to failure. Unfortunately, you don't seem to have attracted many of those. It's an indication of how your project has captured everyone's enthusiasm and excitement!
This is the first time I've seen half-naked girls suggested for testing the structural strength of a prototype auto body kit. Nice to know they have other uses.
The only thing that makes a project like this more satisfying is having naysayers post that what you're doing is impossible or doomed to failure. Unfortunately, you don't seem to have attracted many of those. It's an indication of how your project has captured everyone's enthusiasm and excitement!
TMBountyHunter
Well-Known Member
Re: Mounting Pods!
Primary mode of operation: awesome holes for awesome bodykit
Secondary mode: speed holes for making the car go faster
Those will be dual purpose holes.
Primary mode of operation: awesome holes for awesome bodykit
Secondary mode: speed holes for making the car go faster
