Back to the Future Marty's Holographic Cap (BTTF)

Re: Where to buy accurate BTTF2 cap?

I found this cap... the crown looks pretty good (it's fitted for a size 7 1/2", which is a large size, hence the slightly wider rear panels). The brim is shorter than the 2015 cap, so ignore that.

https://i.imgur.com/WrpQLlU.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/XkI6DRj.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/GbaxMVg.jpg

What do you think?

It looks decent, but the shape of the panels seem to be off. The height of this cap is also too short.
GbaxMVg.jpg

21231322_10210469609564575_8090717888451378248_n.jpg
 
Re: Where to buy accurate BTTF2 cap?

I found this cap... the crown looks pretty good (it's fitted for a size 7 1/2", which is a large size, hence the slightly wider rear panels). The brim is shorter than the 2015 cap, so ignore that.

https://i.imgur.com/WrpQLlU.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/XkI6DRj.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/GbaxMVg.jpg

What do you think?

Besides the brim, that's probably about as good a match as you're gonna get. I don't think the overall height is too short at all. Looks fine.

That said, I'm stI'll at a loss as to why they can't attempt a hat from my pattern. I mean, if you send them this, they're just gonna take it apart to get a pattern for the panels, right? Using my pattern cuts out the extra steps of finding a similar hat, buying it, shipping it to the factory, disassembling the hat, and making a pattern from the pieces.

What am I missing that makes this extra work logical?
 
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Re: Where to buy accurate BTTF2 cap?

That said, I'm stI'll at a loss as to why they can't attempt a hat from my pattern. I mean, if you send them this, they're just gonna take it apart to get a pattern for the panels, right? Usinful my pattern cuts out the extra steps of finding a similar hat, buying it, shipping it to the factory, disassembling the hat, and making a pattern from the pieces.

What am I missing that makes this extra work logical?

I agree with you 100%. With a lot of these factories, it's very "monkey see, monkey do". They like deconstructing something to make sure they're using the same construction method. But really... a cap is a cap! I'm seriously thinking of just pieces of thick cotton twill up using your pattern and make out that I'm sending them a deconstructed hat to see if that will work.

As for the shape of this blue/white cap, I think the angle is making some of you see the triangular top parts of the panels as longer than Marty's cap. But, Marty's is being viewed from a lower angle, thereby shortening those triangular parts and relatively "stretching" the rectangular parts.

I'll print out Spyhunter's pattern and see how the panels compare...
 
Re: Where to buy accurate BTTF2 cap?

Ok, using the pattern @Spyhunter2k posted on the previous page, I made up this cap crown (stuck it on top of the sample cap I found):

3Lm29PP.jpg
vyoIim8.jpg
jisyvw7.jpg
JHHCRm1.jpg


Although it looks pretty good here, in person, I find that the "blockiness", the corner points and overall shape just a little too exaggerated from the original. I'm thinking that half way between this mock-up and the blue & white cap lies the perfect pattern. Also, I don't think the six panels are the same width. I believe the front four panels should be a bit narrower, leaving the rear panels to be adjusted as necessary for a fitted cap.

If I get some time, I may try to draw up my own modified pattern and make another mock-up based on them.
 
Re: Where to buy accurate BTTF2 cap?

I do think you are on the right track Indy. I believe you are very close to getting it perfect.
 
Re: Where to buy accurate BTTF2 cap?

Ok, using the pattern @Spyhunter2k posted on the previous page, I made up this cap crown (stuck it on top of the sample cap I found):

https://imgur.com/3Lm29PP.jpghttps://imgur.com/vyoIim8.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/jisyvw7.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/JHHCRm1.jpg

Although it looks pretty good here, in person, I find that the "blockiness", the corner points and overall shape just a little too exaggerated from the original. I'm thinking that half way between this mock-up and the blue & white cap lies the perfect pattern. Also, I don't think the six panels are the same width. I believe the front four panels should be a bit narrower, leaving the rear panels to be adjusted as necessary for a fitted cap.

If I get some time, I may try to draw up my own modified pattern and make another mock-up based on them.

It's close. Looking at the screen cap above and especially the group pic Emma posted on a previous page, the actual screen-used hats were very boxy.

That said, I agree that the points at the top are a bit too pronounced. I think I should have radiused the outside top corners just a bit more on my pattern, but honestly I think the true pattern isn't right in the middle of this latest mockup and the blue/white hat. I think it's about 85% in the direction of my pattern, and about 15% backward toward the pattern of the blue/white hat.
 
Re: Where to buy accurate BTTF2 cap?

Well, Spyhunter2k, you're right. I made another test cap that was about half way between the blue/white one and the previous pattern and... it still turned out a little too soft and small looking. I'm going to make another pattern from scratch and see how this one turns out... wish me luck!
 
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Re: Where to buy accurate BTTF2 cap?

Well, @Spyhunter2k, you're right. I made another test cap that was about half way between the blue/white one and the previous pattern and... it still turned out a little too soft and small looking. I'm going to make another pattern from scratch and see how this one turns out... wish me luck!


Sounds good! We really appreciate your efforts to nail down the correct shape.

I also think you're correct in thinking the two rear panels are slightly wider than the others. Looking at the screen-used hat from the side, the bottom of the rear panels seems almost the same width as the bottom of the sides, which means the rear panels must actually be wider once you take into account the fact that the hat base is curving away from us at the rear.

So instead of the bottom measurements of each of the six panels being an equal 16.67% of the total 100% bottom circumference, maybe it's closer to 15% for the front and side panels, and 20% for the two rear panels.
 
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Re: Where to buy accurate BTTF2 cap?

I also think you're correct in thinking the two rear panels are slightly wider than the others. Looking at the screen-used hat from the side, the bottom of the rear panels seems almost the same width as the bottom of the sides, which means the rear panels must actually be wider once you take into account the fact that the hat base is curving away from us at the rear.

So instead of the bottom measurements of each of the six panels being an equal 16.67% of the total 100% bottom circumference, maybe it's closer to 15% for the front and side panels, and 20% for the two rear panels.

Here's a quick little analysis I did, to try to place where the panel seams intersect with the outside edge of the hat, based on this image posted earlier. This is a rough estimate of what an overhead view would look like. (The front of the hat is the top of the circle)

Screen Shot 2017-10-22 at 9.43.28 PM.png

I started by deforming a circle to conform to the hat as we see it (flattening it and applying perspective distortion) then marking where the seams landed along the perimeter.

I then reversed my deformations as best as possible, and saw where those marks landed on a normal circle. Then drew intersections to the center of the circle for all. Should be pretty darn close in my opinion and might be something to go off of for the next mockup.

EDIT: For a further breakdown, the central angles are:

Front Pieces: 48 degrees each (13.333% of the whole circumference each)
Side Pieces: 58.5 degrees each (16.25% of the whole circumference each)
Rear Pieces: 73.5 degrees each (20.4167% of the whole circumference each)


Screen Shot 2017-10-22 at 9.43.28 PM.png
 
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Re: Where to buy accurate BTTF2 cap?

Here's a quick little analysis I did, to try to place where the panel seams intersect with the outside edge of the hat, based on this image posted earlier. This is a rough estimate of what an overhead view would look like. (The front of the hat is the top of the circle)

View attachment 768188

I started by deforming a circle to conform to the hat as we see it (flattening it and applying perspective distortion) then marking where the seams landed along the perimeter.

I then reversed my deformations as best as possible, and saw where those marks landed on a normal circle. Then drew intersections to the center of the circle for all. Should be pretty darn close in my opinion and might be something to go off of for the next mockup.

EDIT: For a further breakdown, the central angles are:

Front Pieces: 48 degrees each (13.333% of the whole circumference each)
Side Pieces: 58.5 degrees each (16.25% of the whole circumference each)
Rear Pieces: 73.5 degrees each (20.4167% of the whole circumference each)

These numbers would be accurate if the screen cap was a direct side-on view, which it is not. The camera is coming from the rear just a bit. I suggested above that the rear panels could indeed be slightly wider than the others, but even that could be incorrect depending on the camera angle. I could have been correct all along in thinking all six cap panel widths are equal.

Look at where the brim intersects the side panel base. It's already spot-on on in the red/blue sample Indy posted above made from my initial pattern. Compressing the panel widths forward too much would change this intersection point to where the brim intersects too close to the seam between front/side panels, instead of slightly beyond as it does an the most-recent sample and on the screen-used cap.
 
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Re: Where to buy accurate BTTF2 cap?

This is somewhat of a moot point in any case, as we'll have to make these in different sizes and, usually, the back two panels are adjusted only so each size does not require a completely different pattern, pieces, etc.
 
Re: Where to buy accurate BTTF2 cap?

These numbers would be accurate if the screen cap was a direct side-on view, which it is not. The camera is coming from the rear just a bit. I suggested above that the rear panels could indeed be slightly wider than the others, but even that could be incorrect depending on the camera angle. I could have been correct all along in thinking all six cap panel widths are equal.

Look at where the brim intersects the side panel base. It's already spot-on on in the red/blue sample Indy posted above made from my initial pattern. Compressing the panel widths forward too much would change this intersection point to where the brim intersects too close to the seam between front/side panels, instead of slightly beyond as it does an the most-recent sample and on the screen-used cap.

The real difference in panel size between my numbers and yours would be ~.25 inches each of the front and side panels on an average sized head, so I'm not going to get too hung up on it. :lol

That said I DID correct for the rotation of the hat in 3D space when mapping the seam intersections.
 
Re: Where to buy accurate BTTF2 cap?

Indy, here's a new panel template if you'd like to give it a go.

Changes are as follows:

  • The top corners have been given a more generous radius
  • The overall panel height has been ever-so-slightly reduced (from 6.62" to 6.5") to pull the top of the cap in a tiny bit closer to the head. In your sample, the top of the hat seemed to bulge outwards a bit, and this would hopefully eliminate this.
  • It also features a slight reduction in width of the top and side panels (to 3.75", about 15.625% of the total circumference instead of an equal 16.67%), and widened rear panels as you suggested (to 4.5", about 18.75% of the total circumference). Overall circumference is maintained at 24"
View attachment BTTF Cap Template V2.pdf
 
Re: Where to buy accurate BTTF2 cap?

Spyhunter2k, the new pattern looks great, but there is one thing I think needs tweaking. I do not thing the sides are actually perfectly vertical. My tweaked pattern had them sloping inwards so the new walls were about 1/4" in at each end (at the point where the triangles begin) making that point of the pattern a full 1/2" narrower than your original pattern. The sloping turned out to be too much, but I do think it's necessary, so could you slope your sides in say 1/8" on each side, making that point 1/4" narrower than the square version?
 
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Re: Where to buy accurate BTTF2 cap?

Is it possible that the corners of the test-piece are turning out too sharp because it is cloth and not lenticular? Perhaps the lenticular would not curve so sharply.

Also, the way the test-piece is sewn seems to be a bit different from the movie hat which has the join line between the panels and then widely spaced parallel stitches that border it.

As shown in this post....
https://www.therpf.com/showthread.php?t=144604&page=6&p=4306652&viewfull=1#post4306652

Is it possible those parallel stitches might actually reinforce the material in such a way that it does not curve so sharply?
 
Re: Where to buy accurate BTTF2 cap?

If anything, I think the stiffer lenticular material would be more prone to "pointing" than fabric, which is quite forgiving in this regard. The parallel stitching is really to keep the interior seams flat, I don't think it'd affect the overall shape very much.
 
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