Likewise, Solo4114 - you feel a need to put your two cents just like everyone else. I could say practice what you preach - but, this is a forum where we discuss. My comments didn't take anything away from people that choose to do what they do. My original comment in this current debate was a little comment that has been blown out of proportion... one could reckon by those that feel a need to justify what they're doing or feel a sense of entitlement about it. Again, had someone not boasted about feeling entitled to a downloading an illegal copy - we wouldn't be having this conversation... we could just be talking about a hopeful OT release.

It's unfortunate some of us take this a personally as they do and these discussions get unnecessarily heated.

The debates on the legalities of this forum and its wares have gone on for a long time. A new debate isn't going to change anything about it - the consequences of offering recasts or stepping on a licensee's toes is known.

Holier than thou: characterized by an attitude of moral superiority. I've never claimed to be morally superior, I can be just as guilty as the next person - but, I don't try to justify when I do something wrong by making outrageous claims - I accept responsibility. Does ranting and raving about feeling no guilt about bootlegging a product count as holier than thou? I guess that's debatable.

Keep singling me out about "entitlement" if that makes you feel better about yourself, but the fact is you get off being the self-appointed moral policeman of the forum and that speaks volumes about your true nature. Everyone here can see your constant need to draw attention to yourself by stirring up the same tired old argument any chance you get and it's clear that most of us either don't agree or just don't care. That's the last word I'm going to say on the subject and hopefully the thread can get back on it's original track without any further sermons from you, but I'm sure you'll feel the need to have the last word as you always do. I'll be putting you on "Ignore" after this post so I won't have to read it and I feel sorry for everyone else in the thread who does.
 
Likewise, Solo4114 - you feel a need to put your two cents just like everyone else. I could say practice what you preach - but, this is a forum where we discuss. My comments didn't take anything away from people that choose to do what they do. My original comment in this current debate was a little comment that has been blown out of proportion... one could reckon by those that feel a need to justify what they're doing or feel a sense of entitlement about it. Again, had someone not boasted about feeling entitled to a downloading an illegal copy - we wouldn't be having this conversation... we could just be talking about a hopeful OT release.

No, your comment was a deliberately snide and insulting comment. The fact that you don't recognize that is a different problem. And that was all on you. That wasn't "just having a discussion." That's crapping on other members of this community because you felt that they slighted some intellectual property? On a site that is basically dedicated to copyright infringement anyway?

We wouldn't be having this conversation if you didn't feel the need to pop in and scold people like a schoolmarm. You seem to be laboring under the delusion that (A) it's your responsibility to wag your finger at people who say they might want to pirate stuff, and (B) that anyone is really interested in listening to you do so.

It's not. And they aren't. So take it elsewhere.

If you want to discuss the merits or perils of piracy, super. Start a thread and see who's interested in a debate. But don't come into a thread that's generally about speculation on an official release of the OOT and waste everyone's time tut-tutting about what uncouth ruffians those scallywag pirates are. Nobody asked you to defend the Star Wars IP. You're not Lucasfilm's legal counsel, so give it a rest.

It's unfortunate some of us take this a personally as they do and these discussions get unnecessarily heated.

They get heated because you act like a jerk to them and then act all innocent about it after the fact. This is why I generally have you relegated to a block list -- to which you will return shortly. You come into a discussion on some Star Wars topic, generally crap on the people who you feel are denigrating the franchise in some way, and then act offended and taken aback when people crap on you right back.

To be clear:

You are the one who has started this "debate." You are the one who came in here and decided to lecture people on the legality and morality of downloading the OOT. You are the one who decided to characterize the people who do this.

So don't act hurt or insulted when someone calls you on it. If you act like a jerk to people, you can't be surprised when they return the favor.

The debates on the legalities of this forum and its wares have gone on for a long time. A new debate isn't going to change anything about it - the consequences of offering recasts or stepping on a licensee's toes is known.

Nor is a debate on the legality of downloading an unlicensed copy of a movie. Everyone knows whether it's legal (it isn't). Everyone's made their own decision about whether they're ok with downloading it or not. They don't need you telling them "That's ILLEGAL, you scoundrel!"

Here's the part that you seem to miss:

You came into the thread and called people who were going to download something "entitled."

Nobody asked you.

And when it is pointed out that you're acting like a dick, you defend yourself by acting as if you "needed" to say this stuff.

You didn't. And, to reiterate, nobody asked you.


Holier than thou: characterized by an attitude of moral superiority. I've never claimed to be morally superior, I can be just as guilty as the next person - but, I don't try to justify when I do something wrong by making outrageous claims - I accept responsibility.

Groovy. Nobody cares. Just like nobody in here acted as if they were somehow morally superior because they said they want to download something, which, by the way, still has nothing to do with you. And yet, you felt the need to chime in and give people grief. Have I mentioned that nobody asked you?

Does ranting and raving about feeling no guilt about bootlegging a product count as holier than thou? I guess that's debatable.

No. It's not.

That's just not what the phrase means, and you're wrong. You're just trying to justify acting like a dick to people, and failing at that.

And in case anyone's worried that this will highjack the thread any further, fear not.

 
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I care. I don't think creating a fan edit of copyrighted material you have purchased is wrong. I think the distribution of that material is wrong. I can assure you that there have been consumers who have downloaded fan edits of these films created by others who have never paid for a copy of the film in question and that is theft.

I don't think anyone's claiming it isn't theft/infringement, if that's what they do. But I also think that anyone who's doing that has pretty much decided they don't care.

There are two things I think that are worth discussing on this issue:

1. If you are intending to pirate a movie...you probably shouldn't talk about it on an internet forum. Even if Disney -- today -- doesn't care, nothing (well, other than laches) is stopping them from coming after you at a later date.

2. 1. It's possible that Disney will look at such actions not as evidence of a market waiting to be satisfied, but as evidence of a market already satisfied (again, assuming that George doesn't have veto power still). And that might make it less likely to get a true, restored, proper edition of the OOT. That, I think, is worth a debate, if people want to have one.

Bryan, I'd be curious as to your thoughts on the latter, and whether you think it'd have a material impact one way or the other. Or is the entire market viewed as so niche anyway that it's not really an issue?
 
I don't think anyone's claiming it isn't theft/infringement, if that's what they do. But I also think that anyone who's doing that has pretty much decided they don't care.

There are two things I think that are worth discussing on this issue:

1. If you are intending to pirate a movie...you probably shouldn't talk about it on an internet forum. Even if Disney -- today -- doesn't care, nothing (well, other than laches) is stopping them from coming after you at a later date.

2. 1. It's possible that Disney will look at such actions not as evidence of a market waiting to be satisfied, but as evidence of a market already satisfied (again, assuming that George doesn't have veto power still). And that might make it less likely to get a true, restored, proper edition of the OOT. That, I think, is worth a debate, if people want to have one.

Bryan, I'd be curious as to your thoughts on the latter, and whether you think it'd have a material impact one way or the other. Or is the entire market viewed as so niche anyway that it's not really an issue?

I think internally at LucasFilm there are a great many OT kids who now rule the roost and would love to see the original version of the film we saw in 1977. But those same people are very loyal to GL and his creative choices and right to present his film in the manner he intended and would honor his desire for the SE to be the definitive presentation of the films. Disney as the corporate parent has likely little interest in spending a great deal of financial and manpower resources to try and accommodate the small addressable market for this kind of product. As a publicly traded company they need to justify any capital expenditures to their shareholders and can't engage in what is really a vanity project. GL could have when he owned the company but clearly he never did and there is a good chance he is adverse to the idea. I have heard the Harmy's edits are well known within LucasFilm and well regarded but they wouldn't admit to it. So there is a knowledge of these efforts and there hasn't been an effort by LF or Disney to shut him down as of yet. Based on that, I think we can glean that they don't consider it a sizable market and not worth the effort to police or provide a liscenced version. At least based on the current distribution agreements with Fox still in place.

Having said that, I'm not a fan of these edits of any film and the subsequent file sharing. I do think it's wrong. And I think pointing that out is fair game as part of the discussion. I realize others see it differently but to me it's simply equivocation. Also I wish they never created the IGNORE feature' I think that's the dumbest thing on a discussion forum I have ever seen. It's like self selecting social media content where we create little bubbles for ourselves.
 
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At least you pointed out that **you** think it's wrong rather than proselytizing about it and acting like you're the judge, jury and executioner on the subject.

As far as the Ignore feature, sorry but just as there are people in our day to day lives we choose not to interact with there are also people on the internet who share that distinction.
 
At least you pointed out that **you** think it's wrong rather than proselytizing about it and acting like you're the judge, jury and executioner on the subject.

As far as the Ignore feature, sorry but just as there are people in our day to day lives we choose not to interact with there are also people on the internet who share that distinction.

It's entirely OT and perhaps worthy of a separate discussion but I would say a forum is like being in a room of people all having conversations. You can choose to ignore people's comments but you have no choice to hear them and I think that's for the best. It's good to be challenged by people you disagree with and can chose to ignore or confront, but al least you have that choice. I think that's important.
 
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It's entirely OT and perhaps worthy of a separate discussion but I would say a forum is like being in a room of people all having conversations. You can choose to ignore people's comments but you have no choice to listen and I think that's for the best. It's good to be challenged by people you disagree with and can chose to ignore or confront, but al least you have that choice. I think that's important.

When someone is condescending and unreasonable I think it's well within your rights to choose not to listen to them. Life is too short for a-holes and there are certain people who you just can't engage with in civil debate. There's only one person like that in this thread and that's why he has to be ignored.
 
Anyway, Solo4114 based on what we have heard about the current state of the cut of the OT films it would be a sizable project to return them to their original release cuts and then they would have to figure out a distribution deal with Fox, both of which have financial impacts. It's just a bridge too far.
 
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I think internally at LucasFilm there are a great many OT kids who now rule the roost and would love to see the original version of the film we saw in 1977. But those same people are very loyal to GL and his creative choices and right to present his film in the manner he intended and would honor his desire for the SE to be the definitive presentation of the films. Disney as the corporate parent has likely little interest in spending a great deal of financial and manpower resources to try and accommodate the small addressable market for this kind of product. As a publicly traded company they need to justify any capital expenditures to their shareholders and can't engage in what is really a vanity project. GL could have when he owned the company but clearly he never did and there is a good chance he is adverse to the idea. I have heard the Harmy's edits are well known within LucasFilm and well regarded but they wouldn't admit to it. So there is a knowledge of these efforts and there hasn't been an effort by LF or Disney to shut him down as of yet. Based on that, I think we can glean that they don't consider it a sizable market and not worth the effort to police or provide a liscenced version. At least based on the current distribution agreements with Fox still in place.

Interesting. I tend to agree that there's probably not much of a market for it, at least by Disney's estimation. My theory on why this might happen has always been related to the nature of the digital content created for the SE, and the fact that you probably can't upscale it too far. So, you'd probably need to rescan the old negatives (or interpositives, or some older version of the film) in its original form, after which you digitally cut, prune, and edit. So, if you're doing a 4K or 8K version of the SEs, your starting point is the OOT, at which point you've already spent the manhours/money, so why not release it and make a few extra bucks? It's just a theory, though.

Having said that, I'm not a fan of these edits of any film and the subsequent file sharing. I do think it's wrong. And I think pointing that out is fair game as part of the discussion. I realize others see it differently but to me it's simply equivocation.

Pointing out one's own opinion of the wrongness of the act is, I think, fair game as well. We can debate the morality of the act, and I think that can be useful (up to a point). Where I draw the line, though, is in denigrating the people engaged in the act. I mean, if you want to call them scofflaws, ok, that's legit. That's just strictly factual. Claiming otherwise is absurd, and claiming justification doesn't really eliminate the fact itself. Like, if you're speeding to get your wife to the hospital...you're still speeding. There's no disputing the fact that you were speeding. Just like there's no disputing the fact that if you're downloading a copy of this, it's infringement. There's no getting around that part. (Note: as far as I know, no court has addressed the issue of downloading a copy of a film or song you already own in another format, but absent any court ruling to the contrary, that's still infringement, even if one feels morally justified in doing so.)

[/quote]Also I wish they never created the IGNORE feature' I think that's the dumbest thing on a discussion forum I have ever seen. It's like self selecting social media content where we create little bubbles for ourselves.[/QUOTE]

It's entirely OT and perhaps worthy of a separate discussion but I would say a forum is like being in a room of people all having conversations. You can choose to ignore people's comments but you have no choice to hear them and I think that's for the best. It's good to be challenged by people you disagree with and can chose to ignore or confront, but al least you have that choice. I think that's important.

In general, I agree. And in practice, even with people I put on ignore, I still read posts from time to time. But for me, at least, it helps to filter out folks with whom I either so strongly disagree or am so annoyed by that I just really don't want to hear what they have to say, even if I still want to come here. I would say it's the equivalent of walking very far to the other side of the room, to the point that I can't hear 'em at all above the din and closer conversation. I know they're there. I know I can listen if I want. If I choose not to, though, that's sometimes for the best.

If you've never used it, you may not know that the "ignore" feature allows you to still see that someone posted, and click on that post to read what they had to say, if you choose to. It just flips the choice around from "You can't avoid seeing this, but you can choose to ignore it," to "You can choose to read this, but if you don't do anything, you aren't going to see the content of the post." So, as ignore features go, I'd say that's probably more in keeping with the kind of environment you're describing.
 
I wish Disney would just start scanning everything they've got related to ANH right now. Do it at 8k and wring everything there is to get out of the existing film once and for all.

It's clear that Disney will be offering that movie for sale at 4k or higher eventually. Matter of time. The industry's steady march to higher resolutions & bigger TVs will make it inevitable.

The 35mm film isn't getting any younger. The camera negs, interpositives, early prints, discarded stuff, raw SFX elements . . . It's a crapload of stuff. It's probably a real task just to keep it organized. Waiting longer now is only giving it more time to degrade and get lost. They can decide how & when they want to package it for sale later. For now, just get the stuff digitally preserved.
 
I see the restoration projects as preserving art.
Preserving art is never wrong.
I hope Disney does the right thing.

Technically, that's already covered by the Library of Congress. Assuming you want to register your work for federal copyright protection (and you do), part of that is submittnig a copy of the work which is supposed to be preserved in the Library of Congress. So, there is an existing copy of the original version of the Star Wars films. 80 years after Lucas himself dies, those works will become part of the public domain, per copyright law.

In the meantime, copying and especially distributing copies of that work is really just infringement. It's not so much "preserving art" as it is "disseminating a particular artistic vision which the author now rejects." Not the same thing, exactly. The art is already preserved, it's just not widely available (legally).
 
80 years after Lucas himself dies, those works will become part of the public domain, per copyright law

Walt Disney has been gone 50 years now. In 30 more years will all that old Mickey & Minnie & Donald stuff be in the public domain? I doubt it.
 
UPDATE: The Digital Bits reports that Disney has not taken the appropriate steps to create a new 4K restoration of the original trilogy. It’s possible and could be done – the necessary elements are around and preserved. At this point, the only restored cuts that exists are the much-maligned Special Editions.
 
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Technically, that's already covered by the Library of Congress. Assuming you want to register your work for federal copyright protection (and you do), part of that is submittnig a copy of the work which is supposed to be preserved in the Library of Congress. So, there is an existing copy of the original version of the Star Wars films. 80 years after Lucas himself dies, those works will become part of the public domain, per copyright law.

In the meantime, copying and especially distributing copies of that work is really just infringement. It's not so much "preserving art" as it is "disseminating a particular artistic vision which the author now rejects." Not the same thing, exactly. The art is already preserved, it's just not widely available (legally).

Did Lucas ever submit a 1977 era version to the Library of Congress? I remember seeing in some video (probably a Harmy one) that he tried to submit a SE version but the Library refused to accept it.
 
UPDATE:The Digital Bits reports that Disney has not taken the appropriate steps to create a new 4K restoration of the original trilogy. It’s possible and could be done – the necessary elements are around and preserved. At this point, the only restored cuts that exists are the much-maligned Special Editions.

ok so what was all that "Star Wars in 4k talk" Gareth Edwards tweeted about a few weeks back?
 
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