Star Wars Studio Scale RUMORS.

I had never heard this but that's a real shame he feels that way, if true!

Of course, if it is true, its sad news, and pretty blasé IMO, but then, having seen a lot of Des Chung's concepts over the years, i cant find anything i can gel with. Nothing at all that jumps off the page like a Johnston or McQuarrie sketch, for me, those were the guys who had amazing vision, as even the rather hoopty OT concepts, still create a stir in me that takes me years back. Im glad ive all but forgotten much of the ridiculous rubbish that was churned out in the PT, but opinions vary i guess :)

lee
 
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Look we can not like the look of the prequel ships without bashing Doug Chiang. The dude is an accomplished artist, with a TON of raw talent. GL said He wanted the prequels to reflect an age where the republic was at the hieght of its power - right before it falls in its face. He dictated a more organic "chromed" design to the ships reflecting their owners wealth and power... it was an asthetic decision made by GL that Doug Chiang queued to as his employers wishes... that's why it looks like it does. Not because he's a no talent hack... Really.

Do I like the style of the McQuarrie Sketches - to be honest yes I do... but the concept drawings of the Naboo fighter were pretty slick... AND just what his boss wanted. Talented AND a professional... Wow What a concept that is :D IF he's invovled in the design of the new trilogy I'm no where near prepared to say that alone will make it stink. You "could" make the case that his concept drawings are "too good" not leaving enough wiggle room for the skilled modeler to deviate from the picture - beacause lets face it NONE of the McQuarrie sketches look exactly like the models created from their inspiration. Basically the same - but definitely different. Lets hope the new modelrers are stoners with a gift for rattle can paintjobs and weathering :D

And JJ gets a great team around him for the gig.

Jedi Dade
 
They should hire Ron Cobb to manage all the designs... Bring everything back to a used universe look/feel.

And Chang still sucks, he was just another lucas "yes" man .......:angel
 
...or Joe Johnston, if you can lure him away from his directing gigs.

Its far more likely Joe Johnston will be brought in to direct one of the standalones released along side the New Trilogy. He did a solid job with Captain America and there is probably nobody else out there more capable of reproducing an authentic feeling Star Wars movie than him. As a OT traditionalist I would openly rejoice if I heard he got one of those gigs. Can you imagine the kind of film we could get if he took a crack at one of those long hinted at Boba Fett scripts. You can take my money now!
The Art department is going to be very stretched as it is, given the number of films that are going to be produced over the next ten years, so the team they are hiring is going to be fairly long term, to give the continuity of universe over that period the same look.
Which is why Doug Chiang and Ian Mc Craig have been brought back. Like them or hate them the Prequels and the introduced footage cut into the OT means there is now an established design theme to the SW environments that would be impossible to totally jettison now. So what we are most likely to see is a blend of the two, with hopefully a stronger emphasis on the OT elements, but just how much will depend on the director and producers.
Unfortunately now the planets of Star Wars universe are so well established its going to be very difficult to shift them much from concept. The over elaborate ,colour saturated CGI worlds that Ryan Church and Erik Tiemens mostly introduced in ATOC and ROTS just didn’t feel right to me and the design work done by Stephan Martiniere , Feng Zhu, Alex Jaeger, Sang Jun Lee and others moved it even further away. These guys are brilliant, brilliant artists in their own right but what was chosen from their work just didn’t seem to fit well into the SW universe as I knew it ,but hey I’m wayyyyy old school. The younger generations seem to love the look though. Its something we are just going to have to live with nearly forty years after the original was made and the new one gets released. Time and technology has moved on and so have the people.
BUT if anything does make me hopeful that they might get the balance right it is in the amount of care they have shown so far in trying to assemble a team of people who properly loved the old Star Wars. There is no doubt they want to do right by the fans and that they have actively listened to the criticisms leveled at the Prequels. For the billions that this has cost them so far, the desire to get it right is a given. They can't afford a Lone Ranger level of failure with this scale of investment!
So lets hope they do employ some of the old school modellers like Lorne Peterson, John Goodson and the rest be they at ILM or 32Ten so they get to work their not inconsiderable magic in moving preproduction artwork into beautifully real and detailed scale models again.
 
...or Joe Johnston, if you can lure him away from his directing gigs.

Nilo Rodis-Jamero springs to mind too, some amazing sketches from both these guys. Id love to see Ease Owyeung's vision too ( I'm a huge fan), but really wishful thinking on that.
Just be nice to see it go back to what we know, rather than some guy doing it his way, and kinda ruining the whole feel of the SW universe with those awful and rather mundane SR71 influenced designs on Starships i have treated myself to ignore. Im still to find a Chang design that even comes close to ANY of the even early concept art and vision.
Im old school through and through, but a JJ fan, so yeah, really hope Abrams takes heed, which i think he is trying to!

lee
 
And Chang still sucks, he was just another lucas "yes" man .......:angel

When your paycheck (likely a REALLY GOOD ONE) comes from someone the "JOB" requires people to be somewhat of a yes man. Its easy to play Monday morning quarterback... to me doing what your employer asks you to do is basically being a professional not being a yes man... it was Lucas's sandbox, and Chiang had to play in it. To expect anything else from ANYONE is unrealistic. Lucas would simply have hired another artist to give him what he wanted- and we'd be bitching about that person... Really what else would you reasonably expect?

With the new movie other creative ideas can be explored and hopefully it will be a result we enjoy... I just hope there is not a parallel to the JJprise. Offa...

Jedi Dade
 
I think Chiang did a well enough job. The Phantom Menace in my mind is the best of the PT. The design of Naboo was great. Ships and all. Art Deco, 30s streamlining and so on. Just like you threepio, cloud city and the tantive gives hints of. But then Lucas lost all integrity and guts (so you want Boba and no Jar-Jar?) and I totally lost interest.

The thing is the combination, Lucas-Mcquarrie-Johnston really was a once in a century thing. Look at these forums. All other sci-fi films combined haven't come up with as many memorable designs as the star wars models.
 
There is a big difference between established designers who have a distinct style (fingerprint) who are hired for that reason, and "yes men" who design around exactly what they are told to do. Lucas couldn't have sold Star Wars without Mcquarries paintings. Alien would never have worked without Cobb etc...

His decision to make things look artsy fartsy for the PT was a huge fail. From the ships to the blasters to the costumes, nothing was believable as being a piece of hardware. 2001,Alien,Blade Runner,Aliens, and the original trilogy work because they convey a sense of something real. In modern films Prometheus and District 9 did the same thing. The brain can tell...
 
So have we heard any more scuttlebutt regarding the construction of real models, etc.? I love a good rumor! lol!

Not a "model" per se, but I've heard that they're currently building a full scale Millennium Falcon at Pinewood? If true, it'll be interesting to see how close they can get it to what was used during TESB...
 
This would be awesome! There is no reason they couldn't use the falcon and the falcon models etc...



So have we heard any more scuttlebutt regarding the construction of real models, etc.? I love a good rumor! lol!

Not a "model" per se, but I've heard that they're currently building a full scale Millennium Falcon at Pinewood? If true, it'll be interesting to see how close they can get it to what was used during TESB...
 
I, for one, would love to see a careful mix of practical and CGI. There are going to be shots and sequences that are too difficult to execute with scale models and motion control (or too time consuming, expensive, etc.), but I think there will definitely be a place for legacy effects...especially with a nostalgic like Abrams at the helm.

While I'd love to see ALL of the space sequences done with models (I still think the RotJ model/VFX camera work is the best of its kind in film history), that wish will never be granted. They'd have to practically rebuild the scale model and mo-con industry from scratch, or go with an outfit like 32TEN...and give them a helluva lot of time to complete the work. I'm not sure about 32TEN's operational capacity, but I'd imagine they're not prepared for something as extensive as Episode VII is likely to be. So from a pure volume perspective, in terms of VFX production, it's likely that CGI would fill in where it's simply not possible to construct practical effects in the time available.


Again, I'd love to see a formal return to scale models and motion control...with all the advances in computer control technology, servo technology, precision machining, 3D printing, etc. Not to mention the huge leaps in compositing and CGI for cleanup, shot assembly, and effects animation. I mean...particle physics will be wonderful when it comes to blaster fire, turbolaser fire, proton torpedoes, concussion missiles, and so on. Much better (faster, and easier to change/correct) than rotoscoping all that footage.


So in my mind, I'd love to see real, physical models, lit by real lights, at the core of the VFX production. Then augment with the necessary CGI to "hide the wires" and add detail that is simply too difficult to invest in a physical model. Just having the reference footage of real model work will make creating realistic and appropriate CGI that much easier for the digital artists.


I live in Southern California, and I'd like to think of myself as a filmmaker...but only four years out of school, I'm really little more than a novice (and perhaps a bit less). It has been very frustrating, as a "filmmaker" (I'll just go with the term for the sake of simplicity), to have these aesthetic preferences (i.e., Original Star Wars Trilogy VFX) that one cannot achieve through CGI. Especially with the lower budgets available to independent productions. Yeah, even we can do CGI. We can rotoscope and create digital mattes, but if we want that definitive LOOK of the OT...well, we're kind of up ******'s creek without a paddle.


I've thought about trying to learn the old-school methods, but there aren't any in-depth (if any) courses taught in the Los Angeles area. Moreover, because productions aren't using the old techniques for scale models (starships and vehicles, in particular) it's equally impossible to find apprenticeships to learn the legacy techniques. If any of that work is being done, it seems to be mostly in-house with "boutique" specialists. And if there are VFX companies still doing that kind of work, they have no use for someone who knows very little about the legacy processes, and they don't have the time, inclination, or budget to teach.


I've often dreamed of finding some crazy old wizard living in L.A., one of those guys who used to work in the VFX business and is willing to teach an equally crazy (if not crazier) youngster...but that's like finding a real-life Mr. Miyagi to teach you karate. It doesn't matter that I'm "the next generation" and want to actively promote a return to older methods (because throwing the baby out with the bathwater is WRONG), that doesn't change the fact that the opportunities no longer exist. The support infrastructure no longer exists. Like hand-drawn animation, this stuff lingers on more as a hobby than anything else, and that makes me profoundly sad.


So I'm trying, in my own feeble way, to do something about it. Some friends and I will be attempting to shoot some chroma-key motion control this year, using whatever rig we can get our hands on (I know a few people who know people), even if that's just a repeatable slider. I have access to a production space, lights, an ARRI Alexa-M with the 120fps high-speed package, Lomo Illumina lenses (and can get other lenses through friends), Panther dollies and jibs, track, and a ******-ton of Legos. That's right...Legos. I can't afford to pay a modeler to scratch-build a scale model. And I don't know if all this cobbling and fumbling in the dark will even yield a promising end-result. So thank the Maker for Star Wars Legos.


It'll be a test. A fun project, and a challenge to see if it's possible to recreate the old-school techniques from the ground-up, in a "garage" environment, with some fellow filmmakers and avid Star Wars fans. There's no question that I'd rather do all this with top-tier motion control rigs and legitimate scale models, but you've got to start somewhere (realistic).


All this to say, I think the future should learn from the past. And I hope The Powers That Be can recognize the benefit of looking to what has gone before, looking at what WORKED brilliantly before, and reintroduce it in a new and exciting way. I have high hopes for Episode VII...not only for the film itself, but also what it could mean for the VFX industry in general. If they seize the opportunity, this new trilogy could possibly change the VFX game for the better.




~J. D.
 
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You should look up John Dykstra... Learn the old ways padawan! lol


I, for one, would love to see a careful mix of practical and CGI. There are going to be shots and sequences that are too difficult to execute with scale models and motion control (or too time consuming, expensive, etc.), but I think there will definitely be a place for legacy effects...especially with a nostalgic like Abrams at the helm.

While I'd love to see ALL of the space sequences done with models (I still think the RotJ model/VFX camera work is the best of its kind in film history), that wish will never be granted. They'd have to practically rebuild the scale model and mo-con industry from scratch, or go with an outfit like 32TEN...and give them a helluva lot of time to complete the work. I'm not sure about 32TEN's operational capacity, but I'd imagine they're not prepared for something as extensive as Episode VII is likely to be. So from a pure volume perspective, in terms of VFX production, it's likely that CGI would fill in where it's simply not possible to construct practical effects in the time available.


Again, I'd love to see a formal return to scale models and motion control...with all the advances in computer control technology, servo technology, precision machining, 3D printing, etc. Not to mention the huge leaps in compositing and CGI for cleanup, shot assembly, and effects animation. I mean...particle physics will be wonderful when it comes to blaster fire, turbolaser fire, proton torpedoes, concussion missiles, and so on. Much better (faster, and easier to change/correct) than rotoscoping all that footage.


So in my mind, I'd love to see real, physical models, lit by real lights, at the core of the VFX production. Then augment with the necessary CGI to "hide the wires" and add detail that is simply too difficult to invest in a physical model. Just having the reference footage of real model work will make creating realistic and appropriate CGI that much easier for the digital artists.


I live in Southern California, and I'd like to think of myself as a filmmaker...but only four years out of school, I'm really little more than a novice (and perhaps a bit less). It has been very frustrating, as a "filmmaker" (I'll just go with the term for the sake of simplicity), to have these aesthetic preferences (i.e., Original Star Wars Trilogy VFX) that one cannot achieve through CGI. Especially with the lower budgets available to independent productions. Yeah, even we can do CGI. We can rotoscope and create digital mattes, but if we want that definitive LOOK of the OT...well, we're kind of up ******'s creek without a paddle.


I've thought about trying to learn the old-school methods, but there aren't any in-depth (if any) courses taught in the Los Angeles area. Moreover, because productions aren't using the old techniques for scale models (starships and vehicles, in particular) it's equally impossible to find apprenticeships to learn the legacy techniques. If any of that work is being done, it seems to be mostly in-house with "boutique" specialists. And if there are VFX companies still doing that kind of work, they have no use for someone who knows very little about the legacy processes, and they don't have the time, inclination, or budget to teach.


I've often dreamed of finding some crazy old wizard living in L.A., one of those guys who used to work in the VFX business and is willing to teach an equally crazy (if not crazier) youngster...but that's like finding a real-life Mr. Miyagi to teach you karate. It doesn't matter that I'm "the next generation" and want to actively promote a return to older methods (because throwing the baby out with the bathwater is WRONG), that doesn't change the fact that the opportunities no longer exist. The support infrastructure no longer exists. Like hand-drawn animation, this stuff lingers on more as a hobby than anything else, and that makes me profoundly sad.


So I'm trying, in my own feeble way, to do something about it. Some friends and I will be attempting to shoot some chroma-key motion control this year, using whatever rig we can get our hands on (I know a few people who know people), even if that's just a repeatable slider. I have access to a production space, lights, an ARRI Alexa-M with the 120fps high-speed package, Lomo Illumina lenses (and can get other lenses through friends), Panther dollies and jibs, track, and a ******-ton of Legos. That's right...Legos. I can't afford to pay a modeler to scratch-build a scale model. And I don't know if all this cobbling and fumbling in the dark will even yield a promising end-result. So thank the Maker for Star Wars Legos.


It'll be a test. A fun project, and a challenge to see if it's possible to recreate the old-school techniques from the ground-up, in a "garage" environment, with some fellow filmmakers and avid Star Wars fans. There's no question that I'd rather do all this with top-tier motion control rigs and legitimate scale models, but you've got to start somewhere (realistic).


All this to say, I think the future should learn from the past. And I hope The Powers That Be can recognize the benefit of looking to what has gone before, looking at what WORKED brilliantly before, and reintroduce it in a new and exciting way. I have high hopes for Episode VII...not only for the film itself, but also what it could mean for the VFX industry in general. If they seize the opportunity, this new trilogy could possibly change the VFX game for the better.




~J. D.
 
While I'd love to see ALL of the space sequences done with models (I still think the RotJ model/VFX camera work is the best of its kind in film history), that wish will never be granted. They'd have to practically rebuild the scale model and mo-con industry from scratch, or go with an outfit like 32TEN...and give them a helluva lot of time to complete the work. I'm not sure about 32TEN's operational capacity, but I'd imagine they're not prepared for something as extensive as Episode VII is likely to be. So from a pure volume perspective, in terms of VFX production, it's likely that CGI would fill in where it's simply not possible to construct practical effects in the time available.

I've thought about trying to learn the old-school methods, but there aren't any in-depth (if any) courses taught in the Los Angeles area. Moreover, because productions aren't using the old techniques for scale models (starships and vehicles, in particular) it's equally impossible to find apprenticeships to learn the legacy techniques. If any of that work is being done, it seems to be mostly in-house with "boutique" specialists. And if there are VFX companies still doing that kind of work, they have no use for someone who knows very little about the legacy processes, and they don't have the time, inclination, or budget to teach. ~J. D.

Umm I work for a little company called New Deal Studios, we worked on some of the biggest movies to come out last year. So yes, productions are still using models for movies. They range from fully detailed, on screen models, like the ones used in The Dark Knight Rises to Green/blue bucks to be replaced by CGI later, to landscapes. So miniatures for Star Wars are definitely doable. And we do hire interns/PA's if you're looking to learn.

New Deal Studios | 310.578.9929
 
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There are no nicer people to work for than Shannon, matt and Ian of New Deal studios. They treated me great when i was there. I would recommend if you could get an internship go for it. Youll have a great time and learn alot. And meet a great bunch of people.


Al
 
Umm I work for a little company called New Deal Studios, we worked on some of the biggest movies to come out last year. So yes, productions are still using models for movies. They range from fully detailed, on screen models, like the ones used in The Dark Knight Rises to Green/blue bucks to be replaced by CGI later, to landscapes. So miniatures for Star Wars are definitely doable. And we do hire interns/PA's if you're looking to learn.
New Deal Studios | 310.578.9929

That's incredible. I'm a bit surprised they'd take on non-students. Do you have a rough idea of what the internship working hours/schedule are like?

There are no nicer people to work for than Shannon, matt and Ian of New Deal studios. They treated me great when i was there. I would recommend if you could get an internship go for it. Youll have a great time and learn alot. And meet a great bunch of people.

Al

I'd love to give it my best shot. A lot will depend on whether I can add it as a second job or not. Can't be unfair to New Deal, in terms of expectations, if their needs don't align with what I'm able to do at this point.


~J. D.
 
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