Terminator: Dark Fate

Axlotl said:

No. Why? Did he died?

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No but he was already being associated with the next Alien already so I thought you were being "ironic".

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4462546/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_5

MooCriket said:

It's going to be a direct sequel to Judgement Day!
http://screenrant.com/terminator-6-timeline-judgment-day-sequel/

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Here is the THR interview with Cameron and Miller that answers a lot of questions. .

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/fe...nce-unveils-a-terminator-21st-century-1043027

I am pretty skeptical of a vehicle for Arnold and Linda Hamilton to pass the baton to younger actors but after watching the 45-minute interview, I am cautiously optimistic. I particularly like that Miller kept focusing on keeping the story "grounded" AND following the rules written by Cameron in the first 2 movies because the last 3 movies were NOT and IMO that was a big reason they sucked. Writers include Josh Friedman from T:SCC and David Goyer from Dark Knight trilogy (although their credits include some turkeys too).

OK, saw that Hollywood Reporter itw...

So the Terminator will be back in a new film (that will start where T2 ended) in the shape of a grandpa... Awesome idea, but I guess they took it from Geof Darrow's HARD BOILED comic book published by Dark Horse in the mid 90's.
They don't tell a lot about the look and capabilities of the next bad guy but they say it'll be canon with what was established in the first two films...

Mhh...

A cloud of nano robots maybe ?

I'm not getting the future war proper am I?

CessnaDriver said:

I'm not getting the future war proper am I?

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None of us are, it would seem
Faaaaiiil

CessnaDriver said:

I'm not getting the future war proper am I?

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My wireless network is named Skynet, so we'll see what happens. :lol

It doesn't matter if Cameron is back.

If you recall, Cameron gave a glowing review of Genesys too, and also wrote the 1-dimensional Avatar.

I'm still adamant Terminator doesn't need to continue, with or without him. It never needed to continue past 2, which even he used to agree on.

I was thinking it might be interesting to see an alternate outcome post T-2 where the T-800 is sent back to protect John but fails, and Judgement Day isn't averted leaving Sarah with nothing to do but prepare for the war with the aging T-800 by her side. She would effectively fill John's role as the leader of the Resistance and the movie would end with her sending Kyle back to 1984 right before she and the Resistance are wiped out by the machines. Also thought it was worth noting that I've only seen T1,T2, and Salvation, so they very well may have done this in one of the other movies, but I think it could be cool.

harrisonp said:

I was thinking it might be interesting to see an alternate outcome post T-2 where the T-800 is sent back to protect John but fails, and Judgement Day isn't averted leaving Sarah with nothing to do but prepare for the war with the aging T-800 by her side. She would effectively fill John's role as the leader of the Resistance and the movie would end with her sending Kyle back to 1984 right before she and the Resistance are wiped out by the machines. Also thought it was worth noting that I've only seen T1,T2, and Salvation, so they very well may have done this in one of the other movies, but I think it could be cool.

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Doesn't that still negate the entire point behind the movies? It's a neat concept, but if Sarah could just step up and do it herself, then John was never needed at all, thus 1 and 2 have no reason to even exist.

Another reason this series should just end. Doing past 2 pretty much contradicted the whole point of the movies existing in the first place.

I say they get ILM to max out the cg version of Uh'nold at the age he was in T2. The real Ah'nold can do the voice only. I know ILM can do it , they always come through. Of course they might have to Cg Linda too. Haven't seen her lately. Lets really make it a sequel, like only a few years have passed. Anything else is a reboot . Old terminators just suck !

There is no point in the Terminator series where the timeline "made sense." The paradoxes started with T1. They got steadily more convoluted with each movie whether the flick was good or bad.

If Cameron's new ones are any better then it's because he backed the process up by 3 movies. And he planned all 3 of his new ones at once, which makes them into more like one big movie in the continuity sense.

AssCred said:

Doesn't that still negate the entire point behind the movies? It's a neat concept, but if Sarah could just step up and do it herself, then John was never needed at all, thus 1 and 2 have no reason to even exist.

Another reason this series should just end. Doing past 2 pretty much contradicted the whole point of the movies existing in the first place.

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I think any movies existing at all past T2 effectively negate the plot, save for maybe seeing the "original" timeline Kyle came from in a sort of prequel/sequel. In regards to the Terminator continuity I like the idea that an individual traveling through time can never change their own future, only the future of the past that they have now found themselves in. All the futures/pasts/possible futures exist separate from one another, and so anything like a Terminator leaving 1995 in T2 and going back in time to kill Sarah as a child wouldn't affect the T2 "present" as we know it, as it would have now created its own tangential timeline. That new timeline would of course become one that the machines are successful in, with no Sarah or John Connor ever being born, but "our" Sarah and John from T2 would be fine.

I also don't think John's parentage is a closed loop paradox. I think "John Connor" was obviously Sarah's son in Kyle's original future from The Terminator, but I don't think the John Kyle served under was his son. John Connor sending Kyle back in time results in a John Connor being born, but I believe he is not the same John from the original future, and that Kyle having known the original John Connor and his "fate" is what made Sarah name the child from their union John and attempt to direct him towards that same "fabled leader" destiny. They effectively created a prophesy because Kyle had knowledge from the future, but John was no more fated to become a leader than anyone else, he just happened to be one in one timeline which inspired someone to make him one in another.

harrisonp said:

I also don't think John's parentage is a closed loop paradox. I think "John Connor" was obviously Sarah's son in Kyle's original future from The Terminator, but I don't think the John Kyle served under was his son. John Connor sending Kyle back in time results in a John Connor being born, but I believe he is not the same John from the original future, and that Kyle having known the original John Connor and his "fate" is what made Sarah name the child from their union John and attempt to direct him towards that same "fabled leader" destiny. They effectively created a prophesy because Kyle had knowledge from the future, but John was no more fated to become a leader than anyone else, he just happened to be one in one timeline which inspired someone to make him one in another.

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There is no way John isn't Kyle's son. Kyle explains that Sarah hid before the war and trained John to combat the terminators. In no way could she have done that without what happened during T1 taking place. It can only happen one way. Exactly how we saw it in T1. It's a closed loop with no before or after timeline - there is only one timeline and it cannot be changed. Just ignore Kyle's ramblings about possible futures and what-not - he explains himself he doesn't know tech-stuff. Only concentrate about the things he states as facts. Facts that can only have happened by his presence in '84 and saving Sarah from the terminator and fathering John. John had to be conceived exactly on that particular date and time, not before and not later - exactly on that precise time. And the nuclear war cannot be postponed, because Reese tells as fact that he grew up after, in the ruins. So we cannot have a timeline where he is born prior to it. It is very simple. No need to complicate things with unnecessary twists and turns. It's a very straight-forward narrative with a beginning, middle and end. All any future writer or filmmaker needs to worry about is to build upon that foundation. But all the sequels - even T2 just ignores the foundation and concentrate on the "no fate" BS instead of the known facts as described by Kyle.

roof that the original Terminator movie deals with fixed time that cannot be changed:

- He's about my height. He has your eyes. you trust him. He's got a strength. I'd die for John Connor.
- Don't suppose you know who the father is so I won't tell him to get lost?
- John never said much about him. I know he dies before the war...
- Wait. I don't wanna know. So was it John that sent you here?
- I volunteered.
- Why?
- It was a chance to meet the legend. Sarah Connor, who taught her son to fight, organize, prepare from when he was a kid. When you were in hiding before the war.
Reese is always the father and he dies before the war, as stated.
Sarah prepare John as they've gone into hiding before the war - meaning that they knew, which they couldn't have if Reese wasn't always the father.

- John Connor gave me a picture of you once. I didn't know why at the time. It was very old, torn, faded. you were young like you are now. you seemed just a little sad. I used to always wonder what you were thinking at that moment. I memorised every line, every curve. I came across time for you, Sarah. I love you. I always have.
The picture Reese has in the future is the one that is taken of Sarah at the end of the movie.

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That's why we'll never get a proper future war, because those facts are continually ignored in favor of doing something stupid, to keep basically redoing T1 again and again, in the present the new movie comes out in

batguy said:

There is no point in the Terminator series where the timeline "made sense." The paradoxes started with T1. They got steadily more convoluted with each movie whether the flick was good or bad.

If Cameron's new ones are any better then it's because he backed the process up by 3 movies. And he planned all 3 of his new ones at once, which makes them into more like one big movie in the continuity sense.

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I disagree. If you view it as what happened in T1 as the future already being altered (that John was Kyle's son, hence he sent his father back to ensure he would be born), there are no paradoxes. You aren't seeing the true original timeline in any movie. The timeline had already been altered, so you're seeing the origin of that alteration.

I disagree. If you view it as what happened in T1 as the future already being altered (that John was Kyle's son, hence he sent his father back to ensure he would be born), there are no paradoxes. You aren't seeing the true original timeline in any movie. The timeline had already been altered, so you're seeing the origin of that alteration.

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I suppose that's true. T1 could be seen as a totally closed loop.

But Reese's comment about "one possible future" and Cameron's overall attitude is more like "you control your own destiny."


And really, there would be no point in doing anything if our futures were "set". Why should the machines bother sending back Terminators in attempt to change things? It's the kind of idea that doesn't go anywhere good. I don't know anyone who thinks life is all predestined, nor does anyone want it to be.

It's obvious that Cameron didn't have his whole multi-generational Terminator franchise planned out when he was running around L.A. in 1983 shooting stuff. Ugh, what an amateur!

batguy said:

I suppose that's true. T1 could be seen as a totally closed loop.

But Reese's comment about "one possible future" and Cameron's overall attitude is more like "you control your own destiny."

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Reese states himself he doesn't know tech-stuff, so why get hung up on ramblings he doesn't know the first thing about or the inspirational speech a son from the future gives his mother through proxy in the past - a traumatized young woman who has just learned that the future will be a nightmare and billions will die. Instead, focus on the facts, as there are plenty strewn around and they all point to a fixed timeline. The timeline in T1 is basically like the movie. It remains the same every time you view it. And that's the same that happens with the loop:

Kyle pops up in 1984, saves Sarah and the terminator is destroyed - Sarah has her picture taken before she hides before the war, training John - the war happens - John Connor becomes the leader of the resistance and gives his own father a picture of his mother - Kyle volunteers to go back in time to protect Sarah from the terminator - Kyle pops up in 1984... and so on. and so on - over and over again. It never changes.

batguy said:

And really, there would be no point in doing anything if our futures were "set". Why should the machines bother sending back Terminators in attempt to change things? It's the kind of idea that doesn't go anywhere good. I don't know anyone who thinks life is all predestined, nor does anyone want it to be.

It's obvious that Cameron didn't have his whole multi-generational Terminator franchise planned out when he was running around L.A. in 1983 shooting stuff. Ugh, what an amateur!

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Whether anyone wants it to be is irrelevant. It won't change facts just because you don't like them.

Though, in T2 things are changed. So... in that movie, the time travelers doesn't just travel through time, but swap timeline as well - a whole different thing. And once the change has happened, all bets are off. The whole future can be changed, altered, prevented. There is no such thing as predetermined once you've already started changing things. If you can change it, you can stop it from happening. And since you are not from that timelines future, it doesn't matter if you change things, because you will never go back to your own timeline, where the future war always happens exactly like it's supposed to be. But the thing is: you are not really changing anything in the timeline you have arrived at, because, timelines are fixed, so the change you make from what happened in your own timeline, was always supposed to happen in this new timeline you jumped to... as that is a fixed event too. So again... fixed timelines.

Yes, the multi-verse concept is the only one that holds up to the idea of time-traveling into the past.

I will concede that T1 implies a closed-loop timeline.


I don't agree that Cameron's decisions to imply the closed loop were ever really fitting with the overall theme/ethos/message of the franchise. He probably just did the closed-loop bits in T1 because they seemed clever at the time.

Go back to 1982, get in a room with Cameron, and get him to think about the possibility of Terminator sequels for 5 minutes straight. That would probably have been enough to make him leave out the closed-loop stuff in T1.

I am speculating but I think it's on the mark. Sometimes choices that were made in classic movies were really just mistakes, and don't deserve to be treated as commandments on stone tablets.

Will the new Terminator be tall, thin, and blue?

AssCred said:

It doesn't matter if Cameron is back.

If you recall, Cameron gave a glowing review of Genesys too, and also wrote the 1-dimensional Avatar.

I'm still adamant Terminator doesn't need to continue, with or without him. It never needed to continue past 2, which even he used to agree on.

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I agree with your point on Avatar 100%, but feel Cameron only said what he did about Genesys because his best friend was in the film. It's a well known fact just how close he is with Arnie. At least he is negating that error in judgement by not acknowledging the film in his cannon of Terminator now.

I would love for Cameron to return to a much better form of filmmaking and hit this out of the park...but what he has done in recent years seems to go strongly against him having a critical well done Terminator at this point in his career.

batguy said:

And really, there would be no point in doing anything if our futures were "set". Why should the machines bother sending back Terminators in attempt to change things? It's the kind of idea that doesn't go anywhere good.

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Because it is a computer - it follows logic. It doesn't really send it back to change anything, but to follow the logical course, because when becoming self-aware it now knows the source of its origin - a T800 Terminator microchip. So... logic dictates that it has to send one back. It has to because it has already happened. So Skynet is just going by what it's logically supposed to do - it knows it won't succeed, because history told it it wouldn't, but it has to send the terminator back because it already has sent one back. Get it. The proof is in the records, so it has to do it. Logic dictates it!

Spock would be proud.