Solo: A Star Wars Story

"We're all fine here, now, thank you. How are you?" is not someone being a badass. It's someone doing a poor job at escaping a dangerous situation. It's not someone particularly great at getting out of a situation. The guy didn't escape his brushes with death for all those years because he was particularly good at what he did. I see it as *luck. And that luck is what gives his character a great deal of his charm. You essentially end up with a guy that thinks he's bulletproof and the best in the galaxy. In truth, you have a guy that got out of the majority of those situations because of luck over skill. He has skill, don't get me wrong. He just thinks he is better than he is because of all the luck he's had on his side.

*It was actually in part due to the force guiding destiny. Don't tell Han, though. He wouldn't like it.
 
Absolutely, and this is strongly supported by the new canonical post ROTJ material and TFA. His marriage fell apart, he was estranged from his son and wife, he lost his ship, and was relegated to flying a cargo ship with dangerous contraband while screwing over various gangs. What’s with all Han hero worship? He’s a charming screw up.

That's another reason I personally reject TFA, it's not canon to me, they make him a grand failure and coward after a massive character change where he embraces the rebellion, to the point he becomes a high ranking military leader, leads military strikes. That was poorly written for easy drama sake. Lazy.
JJ Solo is no Han Solo I know.

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Han always came off as more unpolished to me. He's not perfect at what he does, and sometimes he doesn't even do a good job of it. He's a smart-ass with a big mouth and it gets him in trouble. He usually finds his way out of trouble by cheating and using whatever means necessary to escape. I've never viewed him as some cold calculating badass mastermind. It's more like he's just always had "luck" on his side.

Things Han is to me:
A Liar
A cheater
A racer
A gunslinger
Resourceful
A Chance-taker
A smartass
A loudmouth
Sometimes a goofball
Someone who surprises himself from time to time
A loner
A reluctant friend

Things he is not:
Clint Eastwoodesque cowboy

There are echoes of many of those things in Eastwood characters too.
The point is I personally want/need to see the bad azz of ANH and not some making of Han Solo celebrity biopic.
 
That's another reason I personally reject TFA, it's not canon to me, they make him a grand failure and coward after a massive character change where he embraces the rebellion, to the point he becomes a high ranking military leader, leads military strikes. That was poorly written for easy drama sake. Lazy.
JJ Solo is no Han Solo I know.

Well, then there is no point discussing the character with you if you only accept a limited view of his character by cherry picking which films or ancillary material you deem worthy. Just because you don’t like TFA or the Aftermath books doesn’t invalidate them. Some people think the Earth is flat but that doesn’t make them right.
 
Well, then there is no point discussing the character with you if you only accept a limited view of his character by cherry picking which films or ancillary material you deem worthy. Just because you don’t like TFA or the Aftermath books doesn’t invalidate them.

No because all that came much later, SW77 is the baseline because that is as far as the character has developed. We can't skip ahead to when he cares about things.or when others picked up after Lucas. He hasn't changed yet. An early story of Solo has to deliver him to his state in SW77.
 
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I agree with all of that, Cessna - except that Eastwood’s character isn’t the only kind of ‘Cowboy’ - and Han is VERY far away from No Name. If it’s anyone, it’s Boba Fett.


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Solo is the classic anti-hero like the Eastwood cowboy comparison.
Fett is a straight up cold villian who dies like a chump, and of course was never even conceived
of for SW77.
 
Well, then there is no point discussing the character with you if you only accept a limited view of his character by cherry picking which films or ancillary material you deem worthy. Just because you don’t like TFA or the Aftermath books doesn’t invalidate them. Some people think the Earth is flat but that doesn’t make them right.

Bad analogy. Spherical Earth is a fact - Han Solo is a fiction.
We can absolutely disregard the things we don't like that the unimaginative consider canon.
Just because some of us can imagine a better Han Solo than what we've got so far doesn't make us wrong.
And just because some hack wrote a screenplay doesn't make him the ultimate authority.
 
All of those changes to Han in TFA are what happens frequently in life when you lose a child. The parents don't stay together due to any of a multitude of reasons. Some parents can move on, some can't. When they can't they tend to revert back to something they feel is a safe place. In Han's case, that was the old days of fending for himself and not having to care about anyone - not having to care about anyone makes it harder to get hurt, etc. He retreated to that theoretical safe place, only, as typical in these situation's the luck doesn't go his way this time.

It's not what WE wanted to happen 30 years later. Not at all. But, that still doesn't make it lame hack job.
 
Han leaving the rebellion doesn't imply cowardice.
He just wasn't suited to senior leadership outside of combat.

I think we can agree, Han is not the one for regulations and governance. With the fall of the Empire that is what the Galaxy needed an administrator, ie Leia, not an individual that was happy to circumvent the law when it was convenient.

As for his marriage failing, I can so see it. Kid's into Vader. Wife's a force sensitive bureaucrat. Han never liked the Force anyway and probably didn't want it in his family. Luke and Leia force the issue and we get the Dark Side again. Plus Han is a hero of the rebellion that has no place in a peacetime Galaxy.

And, Luke could be considered the coward, for hiding, and even the architect of the resurgent Dark Side thanks to his poor training of Ben.
 
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Han leaving the rebellion doesn't imply cowardice.
He just wasn't suited to senior leadership outside of combat.

I think we can agree, Han is not the one for regulations and governance. With the fall of the Empire that is what the Galaxy needed an administrator, ie Leia, not an individual that was happy to circumvent the law when it was convenient.

As for his marriage failing, I can so see it. Kid's into Vader. Wife's a force sensitive bureaucrat. Han never liked the Force anyway and probably didn't want it in his family. Luke and Leia force the issue and we get the Dark Side again. Plus Han is a hero of the rebellion that has no place in a peacetime Galaxy.

And, Luke could be considered the coward, for hiding, and even the architect of the resurgent Dark Side thanks to his poor training of Ben.

ROTJ was the end of the road for Lucas and he said as much, it was the super happy ending and there was nothing he had beyond that. Those characters had been spent and I agree that he had the good sense to stop there. Post ROTJ my mind paints nothing like TFA. Not even close, certainly nothing that trashes the lives of those characters so horribly.
 
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Kind of like a child that built his sand castle too close to the rising tide, I engage in the futile, and guess foolish, effort to make sense of the entire cinematic universe as presented relative to my expectations and perceptions.

In the age of reboots, it is a loosing battle.
Because it is not just with beloved Star Wars OT, games and expanded universe but the intellectual origins of Star Trek, TV and movie Stargate. Indy and even Stewart or McAvoy.

While the final product may not live up to my expectations, I suspect those involved in the production would like to succeed in telling a good story and everything doesn't boil down to a giant cash grab.
 
I didn't like TFA, but I think both versions fit Han. Like someone said a personal tragedy can cause you to fall back to where you feel safe. That's what Han went back to, I'm assuming after the marriage fell apart. I still don't buy Han not being a hero. I think even in his state in TFA, if they had said Leia or Luke were in trouble he would have hauled *ss to get back and help, which he did. Granted the Falcon showed up on his doorstep, and he kinda had to get out of there, but still.
 
it was the super happy ending

This sucks, I think we should do the..... Scooby Doo.... ending.



Even as a kid, I never bought the happy ending.
There would be such a vacuum after the fall of the Empire. The Galaxy wouldn't be a happy place.
Some Imperial governors would retain power. Some system may even want to retain Imperial systems just for stability.
The Hutts would maintain and expand. New criminal elements would rise.
Trade and shipping routes threatened without the protection of the Imperial Navy or policing from the old Republic's Jedi.
There would be disease, famine and suffering until a new central government was reestablished.
The rebel alliance would splinter as factions jockey for power.

Just look at our history here on Earth, the wake of a revolution is never pleasant now consider that on a galactic scale.
 
This sucks, I think we should do the..... Scooby Doo.... ending.



Even as a kid, I never bought the happy ending.
There would be such a vacuum after the fall of the Empire. The Galaxy wouldn't be a happy place.
Some Imperial governors would retain power. Some system may even want to retain Imperial systems just for stability.
The Hutts would maintain and expand. New criminal elements would rise.
Trade and shipping routes threatened without the protection of the Imperial Navy or policing from the old Republic's Jedi.
There would be disease, famine and suffering until a new central government was reestablished.
The rebel alliance would splinter as factions jockey for power.

Just look at our history here on Earth, the wake of a revolution is never pleasant now consider that on a galactic scale.

Or we defeated NAZI Germany and Imperial Japan and that was the end of those evil entities forever.
Star Wars is a mashup of many things, one of which is fairy tale. The OT characters were put through the wringer,
they can have happily ever after and in my mind they surely did. Maybe if they had left the OT characters out of JJ Wars but honestly
Not-Vader and Not-Emperor and Not-Empire and Not-Death Star and Not-Rebellion, etc etc etc was a remake retread and horribly unoriginal for me.
I look forward eagerly to the fresh start trilogy.
 
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...Maybe if they had left the OT characters out of JJ Wars but honestly
Not-Vader and Not-Emperor and Not-Empire and Not-Death Star and Not-Rebellion, etc etc etc was a remake retread and horribly unoriginal for me.
I look forward eagerly to the fresh start trilogy.

Agreed. Before the details of TFA started leaking, I hoped against hope that we were going to get that clean sheet of paper; a new tale from the other side of the galaxy. To its credit, TFA made me laugh - and cry - and Star Wars felt like Star Wars (for the most part), and I was a happy man(-child).

If TLJ is any better at all (read: darker, and a bit more original and down-to-business), oh boy. :) And to see how Mark Hamill has embraced this revival has been wonderful to watch. What a great guy and wonderful spokesperson for the franchise.

But yeah, tough as it will be now when it does finally happen, totally ready for something new.
 
Or we defeated NAZI Germany and Imperial Japan and that was the end of those evil entities forever.
Star Wars is a mashup of many things, one of which is fairy tale. The OT characters were put through the wringer,
they can have happily ever after and in my mind they surely did. Maybe if they had left the OT characters out of JJ Wars but honestly
Not-Vader and Not-Emperor and Not-Empire and Not-Death Star and Not-Rebellion, etc etc etc was a remake retread and horribly unoriginal for me.
I look forward eagerly to the fresh start trilogy.
Except it wasn't the end. We then had allies turn enemies as the Soviet Union spread across Asia and Europe, plunging the world into a Cold War that peaked numerous times into real full fledged wars. Then, the Nazis returned, and the United States Constitution tied the hands of its own country as Nazis marched and murdered down the street with no legal repercussions available to solve the problem as a whole.
 
Except it wasn't the end. We then had allies turn enemies as the Soviet Union spread across Asia and Europe, plunging the world into a Cold War that peaked numerous times into real full fledged wars. Then, the Nazis returned, and the United States Constitution tied the hands of its own country as Nazis marched and murdered down the street with no legal repercussions available to solve the problem as a whole.

Eh, I would not give them that much credit. Tiki torch carrying kooks that crawl out from under a rock once in a blue moon does not make for the rise of the fourth riech.
Also no wars after WWII were an existential question for the western world like WWII was. The cold war never went full tilt boogie nuclear exchange, when there was fighting it was small proxy wars, and the Soviets fell.

I'm not looking for deep comparisons to real life in SW fantasy films anyways that was meant to be mythical mashups and create some joy
in the old serial style Lucas was shooting for.

TFA rips down the fairy tale ending of ROTJ because they wanted to do a remake with the OT characters to make it more a safe box office bet.
Nostalgia!
They couldn't leave them be,
and they had to resurrect the defeated Empire to be the bad guys again because they were creatively bankrupt to come up with
anything that would be as much a threat. Visually of course it made for a safe bet to keep the name brand familiar to consumers.
It's just so painfully weak sauce to me.

TFA if we must compare, would be like if the WWII German forces literally went into hiding and attacked from the moon like that movie.

The first film ended super happy, Lucas had no idea anything would come next at all. So he ended SW77 with that fairy tale ending.
Once it was a huge hit, he repeated this at the end of the trilogy to button things up in the spirt of what the OT was channeling in all
those serials, myths and fairy tales.
 
There are a number of times when the Cold War came within minutes of going full-on hot. The fact that WW3 didn't happen in this universe does not exactly make it an implausible premise.

As for the First Order, I don't know that it needed to look so different from the Empire. Compare the Nazis to the post-WWII Soviets. Take some documentary footage from daily life in those two militaries. Would they seem very different to an observer from 500 or 1000 years ago? The First Order is another military doing the same job as the Empire, at the same time & place, using the same tech.
 
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