Star Trek Beyond (Post-release)

CessnaDriver · Jul 23, 2016

Bryancd said:
Actually RT is a very good indicator of quality as its a broad aggregate of professional critical review. As such it's far better and less subjective then one person saying "This movie sucks" which is entirely subjective. Then there is Cinescore which is an aggregate of viewer reactions, where this film is at A-.
https://www.cinemascore.com
So regardless of what noisy "real fans" who claim some ownership over what is or is not Trek say, this film and the other two in this universe have been very well received in general and are great fun. I realize that is difficult for some to accept but it is the truth none the less. Just because the conclusion is contrary to any one persons opinion is immaterial.

Goes both ways and that''s a bit insulting... I think very few have use the term "real fans" when they criticize JJ Trek. Any TOS fan has damn good reasons to reject JJ Trek for myriad and logical reasons. One could be just as insulting the other way right...

"Undiscriminating fans" that support a intellectually watered down flashy product as acceptable, that impersonations of old characters and some hardware and easter eggs pass as respectful, that just don't care there is serious lack of hallmark franchise defining concepts that takes
the franchise farther away from it's original meaning and core to a simple mass appeal popcorn throwaway.

I don't think that of fans that can enjoy JJ Trek for what it is, but the comment that we are running around calling ourselves "real fans" in some insulting condescending way is BS.In fact some here express they enjoy the films but still say "it's still not Star Trek"

Call me a TOS purist, that's what most of us are that reject JJ Trek. . Why purist? Because I think what TOS did was so remarkable and so special that it deserves the very best.

astroboy · Jul 23, 2016

I find it interesting that this thread is moving so slowly. The theatre I was in last night was mostly empty.

So I'm gonna take this moment to offer my spoiler filled way of making it a better movie. I personally think the first two acts were amazing.
1. The reveal of krall's identity should have happened in the second act, not the end of the film . This would have changed Kirk's strategy somewhat.
2. The climax should not have revolved around the attack on the space station. That was too much like the end of into darkness. The It should have been revolved around the enemy leaving the nebula. Perhaps krall and the gang are simply left to their devices on the planet.
3. Forget the macguffin. These people were dangerous enough. Perhaps all they wanted was a way out of the nebula. To take. Revenge. The bioweapon wasn't explained enough to care about.
4. No dirtbikes.
5. The beastie boys effect was awful. Right out of Mars attacks. How did krall have an army of thousands? And they all had ships? How did the beastie boys make the bad guys blow up? Spock and McCoy didn't. Like I say, the climax should have been about escaping the enemy, not killing all of them
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astroboy · Jul 23, 2016

I'd also like to point out that in rewatching the old series, I have yet to find an episode that didn't resolve without strategy. Any of those bare chested Kirk fights we hear about were within the episode, not the conclusion of them

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CessnaDriver · Jul 23, 2016

astroboy said:
I'd also like to point out that in rewatching the old series, I have yet to find an episode that didn't resolve without strategy. Any of those bare chested Kirk fights we hear about were within the episode, not the conclusion of them

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TOS Kirk would defeat enemies with reason and logic sometimes! Just words and he could make them pop! LOL
Who doesn't love seeing Nomad handed his azz by Kirk?

astroboy · Jul 23, 2016

CessnaDriver said:
TOS Kirk would defeat enemies with reason and logic sometimes! Just words and he could make them pop! LOL

Totally! In many ways he was a much better strategist the than picard

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Bryancd · Jul 23, 2016

CessnaDriver said:
Call me a TOS purist, that's what most of us are that reject JJ Trek.

Exactly, thank you for proving the point. It's fine to not like these new films. What's not so fine is suggesting that alone who does is either foolish or not a "purist". I grew up on TOS, Shatner was my childhood hero before Luke. I know TOS like the back of my hand. And yet I would never lord my personal fandom for TOS over anyone else by suggesting I am a "purist". What am seeing is a very disturbing trend here on the RPF of people who can't just say they don't like a film and move on but engage in a campaign of negativity and hatred that is seemingly endless. The are the "noisy real fans" of various franchises who I am referring to and have made for a toxic environment around here as of late.

astroboy · Jul 23, 2016

Bryancd said:
Exactly, thank you for proving the point. It's fine to not like these new films. What's not so fine is suggesting that alone who does is either foolish or not a "purist". I grew up on TOS, Shatner was my childhood hero before Luke. I know TOS like the back of my hand. And yet I would never lord my personal fandom for TOS over anyone else by suggesting I am a "purist". What am seeing is a very disturbing trend here on the RPF of people who can't just say they don't like a film and move on but engage in a campaign of negativity and hatred that is seemingly endless. The are the "noisy real fans" of various franchises who I am referring to and have made for a toxic environment around here as of late.

I would argue that the volitility of late is more of a symptom of the Hollywood system that is entirely reliant on rebooting previously existing IP.

start trek fans have ALWAYS been dedicated. They practically invented the fan convention concept. But these reboots are divisive and unrelenting.

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Bryancd · Jul 23, 2016

astroboy said:
I would argue that the volitility of late is more of a symptom of the Hollywood system that is entirely reliant on rebooting previously existing IP.

start trek fans have ALWAYS been dedicated. They practically invented the fan convention concept. But these reboots are divisive and unrelenting.

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OK, I think that's fair to say but what isn't ok is to become so poisonous in a community that one is one a mission to try and single handily drag down a discussion where people are simply trying to enjoy the fandom. In regards to Trek these films have been consistent since the '09 reboot. Those who can enjoy them do, those that don't won't. '09 was divisive but the ship has sailed and all that is unrelenting is the boomerang of negativity. Got it, some don't like it, but constantly trying to bring it down is where some really are off the reservation.

astroboy · Jul 23, 2016

Bryancd said:
OK, I think that's fair to say but what isn't ok is to become so poisonous in a community that one is one a mission to try and single handily drag down a discussion where people are simply trying to enjoy the fandom. In regards to Trek these films have been consistent since the '09 reboot. Those who can enjoy them do, those that don't won't. '09 was divisive but the ship has sailed and all that is unrelenting is the boomerang of negativity. Got it, some don't like it, but constantly trying to bring it down is where some really are off the reservation.

Certainly you can count me with the people who hate the trek reboot. (Yet I like the prequels. Figure that out)

But one of the reason is that there are so many bad blockbusters out there. Essentially, since independence day, we've had poorly plotted cgi disaster flick filling our summers. And star trek is now part of that trend. It wasn't before. But now it is.

Why are some of these movies good? Some of them are bad? Some are successful and some are not. Some are worth mocking and some are not. Why is JJ considered good while michael bay is considered bad. Transformers movies are huge successes while GI JOE films are for kids.

But they all use the same tricks. The same beats. The same reliance on disaster porn and macguffins to tell their stories.

As I've said before, I prefer the prequels to the force awakens because at least their flaws were unique to an auteur. The force awakens had the same flaws as everything else

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CessnaDriver · Jul 23, 2016

Bryancd said:
Exactly, thank you for proving the point. It's fine to not like these new films. What's not so fine is suggesting that alone who does is either foolish or not a "purist". I grew up on TOS, Shatner was my childhood hero before Luke. I know TOS like the back of my hand. And yet I would never lord my personal fandom for TOS over anyone else by suggesting I am a "purist". What am seeing is a very disturbing trend here on the RPF of people who can't just say they don't like a film and move on but engage in a campaign of negativity and hatred that is seemingly endless. The are the "noisy real fans" of various franchises who I am referring to and have made for a toxic environment around here as of late.

Because we want something someday that nails it and quietly accepting all is well is not going to get us there especially when a new TV series is dawning. Being quiet doesn't rally the troops. That is why we make sure the gospel is still preached and not forgotten in all the JJ Trek spectacle.
We can take the heat, nobody commenting on forums is going to hurt anyone's ability to enjoy JJ Trek. But if reminding
fans we damn well deserve better for a TV show helps build a voice in fandom that might just get listened to, gonna do it man,
gonna take that..... risk!

Cameron · Jul 23, 2016

It's typical in America now that simply stating our opinion is not enough. For some ego driven reason there must be a qualifier like "real fan" "true fan" or "discriminating fan" or my favorite "purest". I wonder if some don't need to re watch Spocks Brain a few times before posting. I also wish fans wouldn't try to elevate their little opinion to fact status. That's the divisive part.

Apollo · Jul 23, 2016

I missed Chicago but was there for the 2nd con held.

As a Trek Veteran of well over 100 cons, There were always heated arguments within the Franchise of TNG being better than TOS, DS-9 better than Voyager, etc, etc.nothing new there with the reboots

The IDIC philosophy is a wonderful thing to remember now more than ever :thumbsup

astroboy said:
star trek fans have ALWAYS been dedicated. They practically invented the fan convention concept. But these reboots are divisive and unrelenting.

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CessnaDriver · Jul 23, 2016

Cameron said:
It's typical in America now that simply stating our opinion is not enough. For some ego driven reason there must be a qualifier like "real fan" "true fan" or "discriminating fan" or my favorite "purest". I wonder if some don't need to re watch Spocks Brain a few times before posting. I also wish fans wouldn't try to elevate their little opinion to fact status. That's the divisive part.

As crazy as Spock's Brain was, there are still some take aways to ponder.
Some great sci fi is still there, a biological brain used as a CPU, to control a vast electronic systems, perhaps the brain will still be the most powerful
computer of them all regardless of how far out technology advances, a dumbed down populace clueless to the nature of the technology controlling them.
Hmmmm, that sound like anything possible going on to some degree today?
A "learning machine" that implanted vast knowledge. We are seeing some talk of that now aren't we?

So yes silly episode, but they still managed to inject some engaging take aways that had legs beyond the sixties.

Even bad TOS often brought something to the table.

CessnaDriver · Jul 23, 2016

Apollo said:
I missed Chicago but was there for the 2nd con held.

As a Trek Veteran of well over 100 cons, There were always heated arguments within the Franchise of TNG being better than TOS, DS-9 better than Voyager, etc, etc.nothing new there with the reboots

The IDIC philosophy is a wonderful thing to remember now more than ever :thumbsup

Nobody is killing each other over this stuff after all, it's straight up discussions and no more, and we are in an era where two people can say they are huge dedicated Trek fans, and not have a show or film in common. LOL
Voyager really reaped some hatred as did Enterprise, being a fan of those often got you no love.

Hell the nearly universally loved Whale Trek I can't stand. LOL That always gets me "Whats wrong with you?" reactions. Usually followed up by the comedic lines of the characters imitated on the spot. Imagine my joy.

Apollo · Jul 23, 2016

It gets back to the argument is Bad Trek better than no Trek at all :wacko

Preach it Brother and fly that Flag high for all to see!

CessnaDriver said:
Because we want something someday that nails it and quietly accepting all is well is not going to get us there especially when a new TV series is dawning. Being quiet doesn't rally the troops. That is why we make sure the gospel is still preached and not forgotten in all the JJ Trek spectacle.
We can take the heat, nobody commenting on forums is going to hurt anyone's ability to enjoy JJ Trek. But if reminding
fans we damn well deserve better for a TV show helps build a voice in fandom that might just get listened to, gonna do it man,
gonna take that..... risk!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ErkeFA-QWk

Cameron · Jul 23, 2016

CessnaDriver said:
As crazy as Spock's Brain was, there are still some take aways to ponder.
Some great sci fi is still there, a biological brain used as a CPU, to control a vast electronic systems, perhaps the brain will still be the most powerful
computer of them all regardless of how far out technology advances, a dumbed down populace clueless to the nature of the technology controlling them.
Hmmmm, that sound like anything possible going on to some degree today?
A "learning machine" that implanted vast knowledge. We are seeing some talk of that now aren't we?

So yes silly episode, but they still managed to inject some engaging take aways that had legs beyond the sixties.

Even bad TOS often brought something to the table.

I agree with you but only because I am a real true pure discriminating fan

I think we all (myself) included go out of our way to find reasons to give a pass to all of the terrible acting bad dialogue and silly plot points in TOS because it's so close to our hearts. But if we find a way to view it through the eyes of today's main movie viewing demographics we would laugh at TOS as many do. Taste is generational and it always changes.
Live Long and Lens Flare

CessnaDriver · Jul 23, 2016

Cameron said:
I agree with you but only because I am a real true pure discriminating fan
I think we all (myself) included go out of our way to find reasons to give a pass to all of the terrible acting bad dialogue and silly plot points in TOS because it's so close to our hearts. But if we find a way to view it through the eyes of today's main movie viewing demographics we would laugh at TOS as many do. Taste is generational and it always changes.
Live Long and Lens Flare

Oh yeah, I know you have to update, and TV acting then was meant for small poor resolution screens of the sixties and many not even in color. So I think there are reasons why the music needed to be dramatic and the performances more like those on stage to project it. Not to mention TOS was really some of the first serious Sci Fi to be presented to the populace, so that isn't a thing anymore and would go un-noticed today. We did see the TOS actors as they moved into modern big screen though, the performances adjusted and the films of course had large budgets in comparison.

Apollo · Jul 23, 2016

Man I'm gonna run with that one!

Thanks!!! :lol

Cameron said:
Taste is generational and it always changes.

ghostryder · Jul 23, 2016

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niennumb1 · Jul 24, 2016

I remember when they released photos of the home release when it got to be close to release. It's been out for only a couple days IN THEATERS and already this stuff....

Star Trek Beyond (Post-release)

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