Axanar - Crowdfunded 'Star Trek' Movie Draws Lawsuit from Paramount, CBS

Have we gotten to the stage where Paramount can file a motion for summary judgment? Because this case should've been put to bed and Axanar should have been shut down AGES ago.
I've been wondering that myself. Hell, there's enough evidence in Axanar's own PR to get summary judgment. Judicial notice even. They must be really looking to bury Axanar as deeply as possible rather than go for a quick win. Though I suppose it would help if we knew the discovery schedule. :)
 
Fans films may be the only way, that fans of the "real" Trek get any new stuff. Paramount doesn't seem interested in giving the fans of Tos, what they want. It's much like the Original cuts of Star Wars. Fans be damned, we will give you what we want, and you'll like it ! Oh well, what can you do. When companies want to cut off their own nose to spite their face, I say let them. They are retconning themselves out of business. It's your IP, make what you want. I don't have to pay to see it. It will run on TV in a few months, over and over again, like the expendables, ;)
 
"real" Trek?

Hmmm...Im a huge fan of TOS (watched it when it was originally on TV) and I loved JJs first Trek movie, most of TNG and some of Voyager DS9 and Enterprise. I personally think Paramount is VERY interested in giving the fans what they want (even though they miss) because it means more $$ but the reality is that they don't want someone else making that money with their IP. Makes sense to me.

It amazes me that a number of people believe that Axanar will be "exactly what the fans want" because of a 21 min trailer comprised of mostly CGI SFX. Having seen the bad acting in that trailer I think if it does get made you will NOT get "exactly what the fans want"
 
That requires Paramount to be willing to and interested in working with them in the first place. It's hard to get studio support, when the studio has zero desire to support you.

Why should Paramount work with them? Because they're nice people? Because someone on a website wrote an article talking about how it's possible that Klingon should be in the "creative commons"? Because fans seem a little more interested in Axanar's final product than anything with the Trek brand on it in the last few years? If anything, that last one is an extremely compelling reason to use the law to nuke this project from orbit.

Put simply, the only reason for Paramount to come to the table is because they have better things to do than argue with some pissant wannabe studio. But that only works if said pissant wannabe studio doesn't also suffer from delusions.


Have we gotten to the stage where Paramount can file a motion for summary judgment? Because this case should've been put to bed and Axanar should have been shut down AGES ago.

I agree, other than maybe making some money off the distribution there wasn't much reason to work with them and even less so after things got ugly. They could probably make money but distributing fan projects but it'd be a mess to try and organize. I'm surprised the studio has been playing this nicely to start with and didn't just hammer Axanar into the ground. Sad thing is even if they did it as a good will gesture towards the fans or just to make it go away so they can focus on other stuff Axanar has snubbed it at every turn. One thing is for sure, the lawyers on both sides are probably happy as pigs in slop that it keeps dragging on so they get paid.
 
I agree, other than maybe making some money off the distribution there wasn't much reason to work with them and even less so after things got ugly. They could probably make money but distributing fan projects but it'd be a mess to try and organize. I'm surprised the studio has been playing this nicely to start with and didn't just hammer Axanar into the ground. Sad thing is even if they did it as a good will gesture towards the fans or just to make it go away so they can focus on other stuff Axanar has snubbed it at every turn. One thing is for sure, the lawyers on both sides are probably happy as pigs in slop that it keeps dragging on so they get paid.
Axanar's legal team is working pro bono. (but see Jarndyce and Jarndyce, Bleak House, Dickens, p. 1.) :p

Just an educated guess, but I think the reason the studios don't pick up fan films is that it could blur the line between their official product and imitations, which could affect the value of their assets. In the corporate world it's called brand dilution (a term that comes up in trademark cases as well), and it's never a good idea. Imagine Elon Musk allowing DIY/garage electric buggy makers to use the Tesla name. If the DIY product is awful, he looks bad by association. If it's brilliant, he looks bad by comparison. Either way, it's a bonehead maneuver (sorry, Lennier). :p

Beside, it's a money loser. Fan films could never achieve the mass-market success of a $200 million studio tentpole. It's far too expensive for them to devote any time at all to wrangling tiny streams of income. They make their whole annual nut on a few huge pictures that have to do > $500 million worldwide for them to stay in business. They literally have to go big or go home.

A more realistic alternative might be for them to create a "safe harbor" for fan films, with very clear limitations. Things like running time limits, budget limits, distribution restrictions, no sales or profits, etc. That could go over very well with fans and maybe keep the Axanars of the world out of the game. But they'd still have to consider IP value v. PR value plus the expense of tracking fans' compliance.
 
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Axanar won't genuinely compete with the studio-produced Trek projects.

But, think longer-term - sooner or later something like that will happen.

As blockbusters get more corporate-ized, and less catered toward the diehard fanbases, and the public gets less impressed with SFX spectacle movies, and fan-films get better, and fan movie CGI gets cheaper, and fanbases get more organized . . . in the long run this issue is eventually coming to a head. What happens when a fan-made work is literally challenging an official one in the eyes of the public? We could use some ground rules that all sides can live with.
 
asalaw; as you said ^^ a "Safe Harbour" could be the ticket for us fans, but the expenses for the Corps allowing such films would be a hard sell for their shareholders.
Frankly, not feasible in the near future...and again, trademarks, IP,etc...should be nightmarish at best for everyone involved.
As said before, Axanar thought they could defeat Goliath...not this time people, not this time.
 
They get sued.

I'm not saying a superior fan-film has the right to challenge the official item. But there will probably come a time when a studio might WANT TO embrace a superior fan-film.

Studios are huge corporations. They don't get butthurt like individual filmmakers when somebody else does their job better. (The most recent Fantastic-4 movie bombed and the studio was already soliciting advice about what to do with the franchise.) The studios won't want to give an inch when it comes to financial profit. But at some point a studio might be looking at more financial profit from embracing a fan-film version than squashing it. What then?


I repeat, it won't be Axanar.

It won't be any fan-film that we've seen so far.

It may not be involving any currently active franchise we know of.

But sooner or later I think it will happen.
 
Not gonna happen, they did'nt even flex their muscle in this case iirc and some of the people working on this dropped out.

Do you want to work,

A Professionally and make money or, B, be blacklisted and work fan-films for free


. . . or maybe it will prove to be a loophole allowing studios to get around using Unions . . . .
 
Studios already have such a loophole. They can shoot in right-to-work states. We have 24 of them at last count. Most are in the South, but the latest one is Wisconsin. Louisiana is a RTW state, plus it has among the most favorable tax breaks in the country for productions, which is why so many productions shoot there (such as True Blood). And The Walking Dead shoots in Georgia, another RTW state, for similar reasons.

However, I'm fairly sure both productions used union crews anyway. If you're a SAG and DGA signatory, you usually wind up with IA and the Teamsters in the bargain. But in RTW states, union crew rates are often lower, because they face competition from non-union crews. Very big shows usually hire union crews just to keep the peace. And union locals can stir up plenty of trouble by picketing non-union shows, which I've witnessed. In short, it pays to hire union crews even in RTW states, but it's often cheaper than in forced-unionism states.

Even in Florida, a RTW state, I was forced to join Teamsters 390 when I was brought into the Locations department on Miami Vice. It was illegal, but at the time I knew absolutely bupkis about this stuff. :)
 
I was hoping you would chime in, "Dead" is mostly Union I think, at least it appeared key personnel were.

As you state Keeping the peace goes a long way down the road


Studios already have such a loophole. They can shoot in right-to-work states. We have 24 of them at last count. Most are in the South, but the latest one is Wisconsin. Louisiana is a RTW state, plus it has among the most favorable tax breaks in the country for productions, which is why so many productions shoot there (such as True Blood). And The Walking Dead shoots in Georgia, another RTW state, for similar reasons.

However, I'm fairly sure both productions used union crews anyway. If you're a SAG and DGA signatory, you usually wind up with IA and the Teamsters in the bargain. But in RTW states, union crew rates are often lower, because they face competition from non-union crews. Very big shows usually hire union crews just to keep the peace. And union locals can stir up plenty of trouble by picketing non-union shows, which I've witnessed. In short, it pays to hire union crews even in RTW states, but it's often cheaper than in forced-unionism states.

Even in Florida, a RTW state, I was forced to join Teamsters 390 when I was brought into the Locations department on Miami Vice. It was illegal, but at the time I knew absolutely bupkis about this stuff. :)
 
Unions, schmunions.

The situation could still come to pass where genuine amateurs make something good enough that a studio wants to mess with it.



Imagine if the old 1990s Antonio Banderas Desperado flicks had been a struggling comic book franchise instead of a movie series. Some studio had the rights to it but they had only made 1 or 2 crappy forgettable movies years ago.

Meanwhile a young nobody like Robert Rodriguez is a huge fan of the Desperado comics. He makes El Mariachi for like $20,000 and it's better than anything the IP owner had cooking. Get my drift?


What happens then? El Mariachi is accumulating a zillion hits on Youtube (or however else you can distribute something online free now). Fans at the conventions are loving it, and it's starting to be seen by non-fans.

Would the studio just squash the movie on principle anyway? It has awakened their dormant franchise & given them a sequel setup on a silver platter. They could support/promote the movie and throw a hundred million bucks at Rodriguez to do another one. Easy money for the studio. The franchise makes another zero dollars for the studio this year if they don't do it. And it costs the studio money & embarrassment if they fight against Rodriguez.


Something like this could happen. How will the studios react when it does?
 
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"real" Trek?

Hmmm...Im a huge fan of TOS (watched it when it was originally on TV) and I loved JJs first Trek movie, most of TNG and some of Voyager DS9 and Enterprise. I personally think Paramount is VERY interested in giving the fans what they want (even though they miss) because it means more $$ but the reality is that they don't want someone else making that money with their IP. Makes sense to me.

It amazes me that a number of people believe that Axanar will be "exactly what the fans want" because of a 21 min trailer comprised of mostly CGI SFX. Having seen the bad acting in that trailer I think if it does get made you will NOT get "exactly what the fans want"


I wasn't saying that Axanar was what fans want. I watched the trailer and it put me to sleep. Too much sitting around yacking. I was just saying that a good fan film, might be the only way we might get back to " Real " Trek. That being Trek before Jar Jar . You can like whatever you want, it's just opinion. Mines as valid as yours. If I think that real means pre JJ, then that's what it means. I watched both Jar Jar movies, and they weren't without entertainment value, they just aren't what I consider "my" Trek. I see these new movies as the equivalent of the Star Wars prequels. Not real Star Wars. I can watch them, but they really mess with my zen thing ! Just like the Nu Enterprise, inside and out. I mean really, a brewery for engineering, an Apple store for a bridge. Blasted lens flares assaulting my old eyes. I really hate when people who like something think that if you don't like it, your somehow lacking in taste. I don't tell people who like Jar jar that they have no taste. I might think it, but I don't say it, ;)

So like what you want, and I'll do the same, and let's sing kumbaya ! Cheers,

Joe
 
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I wasn't saying that Axanar was what fans want. I watched the trailer and it put me to sleep. Too much sitting around yacking. I was just saying that a good fan film, might be the only way we might get back to " Real " Trek. That being Trek before Jar Jar . You can like whatever you want, it's just opinion. Mines as valid as yours. If I think that real means pre JJ, then that's what it means. I watched both Jar Jar movies, and they weren't without entertainment value, they just aren't what I consider "my" Trek. I see these new movies as the equivalent of the Star Wars prequels. Not real Star Wars. I can watch them, but they really mess with my zen thing ! Just like the Nu Enterprise, inside and out. I mean really, a brewery for engineering, an Apple store for a bridge. Blasted lens flares assaulting my old eyes. I really hate when people who like something think that if you don't like it, your somehow lacking in taste. I don't tell people who like Jar jar that they have no taste. I might think it, but I don't say it, ;)

So like what you want, and I'll do the same, and let's sing kumbaya ! Cheers,

Joe

Not sure who said you lacked taste but it sure wasn't me in my post but thanks for the sideways insult about "no taste". Passive aggressive much? But hey. Cheers smiley face etc.
 
Not sure who said you lacked taste but it sure wasn't me in my post but thanks for the sideways insult about "no taste". Passive aggressive much? But hey. Cheers smiley face etc.

I misspoke, I should have written, implies that I have poor taste. I hear this so much on forums. There are so many cheerleaders and defenders of certain movies. If anyone says they don't like them, the defenders come out guns blazing. You didn't do that, so I apologize. No insult was intended, sideways or otherwise. And as for passive/ aggressive, not me friend. I am by no means passive. Aggressive, yes, many times. I'm working on it. If I insult someone, it will be pretty obvious. But I try not to do that on the internet. If I can't insult someone to their face, it takes all the fun out of it. The smiley face was to show I was joking. I guess you don't like those either. Oh well, c'est la vie ! Again, I apologize, just sensitive to the " if I like it, you must like it also crowd "
 
I'm not saying a superior fan-film has the right to challenge the official item. But there will probably come a time when a studio might WANT TO embrace a superior fan-film.

Studios are huge corporations. They don't get butthurt like individual filmmakers when somebody else does their job better. (The most recent Fantastic-4 movie bombed and the studio was already soliciting advice about what to do with the franchise.) The studios won't want to give an inch when it comes to financial profit. But at some point a studio might be looking at more financial profit from embracing a fan-film version than squashing it. What then?


I repeat, it won't be Axanar.

It won't be any fan-film that we've seen so far.

It may not be involving any currently active franchise we know of.

But sooner or later I think it will happen.

. . . or maybe it will prove to be a loophole allowing studios to get around using Unions . . . .

Nope.

Nope.

Not gonna happen.

First off, a studio will never take a fan production of something existing and release it as-is. There are way way too many legalities involved, not to mention the union stuff. For a union production, you need funding. Sure, Axanar had some, but since their funding was not used in the way a professional film uses funding even on a lower budget film, they do not count in this instance. They also did not use union people under a union contract. Hell, they didn't even pay most of the people who did the heavy lifting on production.

Here is an example of a case that actually happened. A good friend of mine sold her completed film. The studio bought it, decided to do reshoots on it. In the end, they entirely replaced the lead character with a 'name' actor. They also spent time and money negotiating the soundtrack which used all unknown bands (including my brother). All contracts that the artists held with her production company were rendered void by the way the deal was written and everyone ended up with a giant wad of nothing, despite her thinking this was good for everyone. Even she has not been paid because of 'loopholes' saying she gets paid when it gets released and four years later it's no closer to being released. So now she has a movie she worked on and finished with a completed soundtrack that she could have released as an indie film but instead got seduced by a big studio deal that screwed everyone over.

THAT is how Hollywood works. It's not in it for innovation or creative concepts or the little guy, it is all about the bottom line. And honestly? That's how it should be. It's a business, and with how the business is run there is NO WAY they are going to open themselves up to a fan production of their assets, no matter how good.

Could it open doors for those involved? Sure. I've gotten major auditions based on my reel which includes a lot of fan production stuff. I've been able to use my behind-the-camera skills I honed on set to become part of my daily job. I've met people who have given me opportunities. But most of all, I have had fun playing in the Star Trek, Star Wars and Firefly worlds by being in or making fan productions of them.

Now, RtW and unions... this is another tricky matter. Here: https://www.sagaftra.org/new-orleans-local/local-resources/union-vs-non-union-rtw-state. Now,I am in a RtW state. I am also union-eligible and have been for years. My next union movie role will force me to become union, but most of my work is non-union because I do a lot of regional/local commercial work and industrials with some indie film thrown in sometimes for fun. Almost all VO work is non-union in this market. I have yet to book a union job for voice and I am thinking they may not exist around here. I have, however, worked on a few union projects and have been an extra on somewhere around 50. (Hey, extra work is fun!) The way you are treated on non-union sets is vastly different than union. Union sets tend to run like clockwork. Everyone is there to get paid and get home. Non-union stuff tends to be more lax. It tends to be more lax on things like break time and feeding you, though, and you have no recourse. There are also a lot of other things.

I grew up in Detroit. I know all about unions. Most of my family members and friends are in jobs that require you to join a union. I've seen the good and the bad. I see the corruption and the way they can screw members over. I've seen the results of not having a union to fall back on. Neither side is a great one, but they are a necessary thing around here. Making Axanar into a studio production would be like coming into Detroit to open a car factory without having a professional car-factory-experienced person in charge and not using any union workers. You wouldn't get far and you'd fail miserably, even if the cars themselves weren't bad.


TL;DR: Neither Axanar or any other fan production will ever be bought and released by a studio.
 
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