Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm (after 2021)?

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Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

To me that's good, but thin.
Luke did what he did in ESB and ROTJ out if imminent fear. In ESB, going to Bespin was the only 'vision' related thing he did. Ever. Prior to TLJ. And did he do anything 'dark side' there? No. He was lured into a trap, defended himself and flat out rejected the dark side by opting to fall do his death - which wound up not happening.

Entering the cave, with experience, you would know you don't need the weapons - he was a neophyte and was in a strange wilderness - who knows what's in there. Taking your weapons isn't a wrong move per se. Vader then walks up to him with a saber - not sure who'd just stand there.

In Jedi, as I said, i don't consider it very dark side-ish to want to take out the guy you just watched blow up a couple capital ships and tells you this was a trap and i'm going to kill them all. Then vader tells you i'm going to go after your sister next, again, not very dark side-ish IMO. He stopped when he realized it switch to rage.

Both are FAR FAR AWAY from having a vision in your hut, getting up, walking across campus or whatever, sneaking into your nephews hut and intending to stab him in the back while he's sleeping. There's not much of a comparison. The throne in jedi, pure adrenaline/emotion. Anakin and the sand people, same thing. Anakin/Dooku, same thing. Even luke in the cave was immediate fear based adrenaline. TLJ basically showed a cold calculated decision withdrawn at the last second, but not close enough as it pushed him totally over to the dark side for good. And to cap it off, he shirks the responsibility and goes to hide on a seemingly largely abandoned planet? Just poorly conceived and executed all the way around.

If you want to go that route, you've got to give something more than 'a vision'. Especially when we know visions are not set in stone.

A better execution of that would have been an E7 that picked up at the academy. We see Ben flirting with disaster. We see luke having visions. We see the visions starting to come true (smaller, not very evil ones), We see luke discussing it with han/leia. We get the final horrific vision, luke feels he has no choice, so he goes to the hut finds him asleep and the same scene occurs from there.

If you want to trash luke, you've got to make the investment, not try and get people to buy it off 2 lines or so of dialog. Obviously he did it because he felt he had no choice, but they offered NOTHING to make us believe it which is why it fails. It shouldn't matter a bit that people have built luke up over 30 years of nothing. Actually, it should, because everyone at LFL and involved with the production knows that to be the case. If you want people to buy that as the reason, you have to give them a reason to buy it. 'Just because' is not good enough.

Going back to how you cite the OT examples, you know enough about Luke to understand everything he does. I'd venture no one here would have done anything different in any of the scenario's he faced. I mean, people want to dissect the snot out of the throne room scene (not that there's anything wrong with that) and point out dark side leanings here or there. Here's his literal scenario:

-Captured by Vader
-Brought to the throne room to face the emperor and vader.
-Forced to watch as everyone he now knows is being killed out the window
-The only way he walks out of that room is with a dead emperor, and likely dead or flipped vader
-The other way he leaves that room is dead, or as the emperor or vaders henchman.

There is no 'peaceful' out of that situation. The jedi had no problem killing Geonosians in AOTC. Why should look have any compulsions about taking out either of those two? It's a false equivalency saying that trying to kill either of those two is reason enough for him to sneak up on his nephew to stab him in the back.

Okay, Luke did NOT have a vision of what Ben was going to do, then went to his hut to kill him. He went to his hut, probed Ben's mind, and saw what he was planning to do. It was at that point that he was tempted to kill him, and only briefly.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

It's the Star Wars version of the old kill baby Hitler dilemma, only Luke actually fought against that galaxy's fascist evil already. I can't imagine any other gut reaction when presented with the possibility that you could stop the deaths of millions with minimal effort but an enormous cost to your soul. To be honest, the first time I saw the 'true' version of that scene I felt like I'd been socked in the gut. It was a bit of disappointment in my childhood hero and also a bit of that realization that you can only come to as you enter middle age and finally see that people you'd always looked up to were actually still just people. It humanized the character in a way that the other films didn't when I was a kid. Maybe it could have been pulled off better, but I have no problem with the concept as it stands. I think it's a bold story telling move, whether any of us approve or not.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Okay, Luke did NOT have a vision of what Ben was going to do, then went to his hut to kill him. He went to his hut, probed Ben's mind, and saw what he was planning to do. It was at that point that he was tempted to kill him, and only briefly.


Retconning TLJ, are you? All we know is what was in the movie, which is what Luke told Rey. It's clear as mud, because it's likely that somewhere in between Luke's version and Kylo's version is what actually happened. It's one of the unresolved issues with TLJ that critics point out. And if JJ has any clue, he will grasp that thread and tie it in with the rest of the trilogy and help alleviate the mess RJ created.

Ultimately, it's evidence of how NOT to make a trilogy. The OT, once developed into a trilogy after the success of Star Wars, was completely thought out, planned, written, edited ad nauseum and finalized long before the first scene was filmed. The PT, for all of its faults, was thought out, planned, written, edited ad nauseum before the first scene was filmed. There was a clear and concise vision agreed upon for the OT and PT. That is not the case for the ST, and that's why there will be so many problems with it. We get the individual story the director wants to tell, and the subsequent movies suffer.

- "You will pay the price for your lack of vision," said the Emperor. Box office losses, split fan base, and all the other problems and issues going on behind closed doors are the price LFL is paying for their lack of vision of a cohesive trilogy thought out, planned, written, edited ad nauseum before trendiest scene was filmed.

At the end of the day, Star Wars will be successful because of the millions of fans who will gobble up anything with a Star Wars logo slapped on it, whether or not it's any good. I used to be one of those fans, until TLJ opened my eyes and I questioned everything. So maybe I'm "just" an OT fan. I'm good with that.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Okay, Luke did NOT have a vision of what Ben was going to do, then went to his hut to kill him. He went to his hut, probed Ben's mind, and saw what he was planning to do. It was at that point that he was tempted to kill him, and only briefly.

Even if that's true, it still fails.

Planning to do does not equal done. There are other ways to stop it short of cold blooded murder.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Even if that's true, it still fails.

Planning to do does not equal done. There are other ways to stop it short of cold blooded murder.

It gets more complicated when these are Force-heavy people with premonition abilities that go well beyond mere intentions. In theory Luke might see what Ben's gonna do before Ben has even gotten there yet.

I've never had any trouble with the idea that Luke impulsively lit up his saber for a moment in that tent. It seems entirely plausible to me and not out-of-line with the OT Luke. It would have been out-of-line if he had gone through with it and killed Ben.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Retconning TLJ, are you? All we know is what was in the movie, which is what Luke told Rey. It's clear as mud, because it's likely that somewhere in between Luke's version and Kylo's version is what actually happened. It's one of the unresolved issues with TLJ that critics point out. And if JJ has any clue, he will grasp that thread and tie it in with the rest of the trilogy and help alleviate the mess RJ created.

Ultimately, it's evidence of how NOT to make a trilogy. The OT, once developed into a trilogy after the success of Star Wars, was completely thought out, planned, written, edited ad nauseum and finalized long before the first scene was filmed. The PT, for all of its faults, was thought out, planned, written, edited ad nauseum before the first scene was filmed. There was a clear and concise vision agreed upon for the OT and PT. That is not the case for the ST, and that's why there will be so many problems with it. We get the individual story the director wants to tell, and the subsequent movies suffer.

- "You will pay the price for your lack of vision," said the Emperor. Box office losses, split fan base, and all the other problems and issues going on behind closed doors are the price LFL is paying for their lack of vision of a cohesive trilogy thought out, planned, written, edited ad nauseum before trendiest scene was filmed.

At the end of the day, Star Wars will be successful because of the millions of fans who will gobble up anything with a Star Wars logo slapped on it, whether or not it's any good. I used to be one of those fans, until TLJ opened my eyes and I questioned everything. So maybe I'm "just" an OT fan. I'm good with that.

Dude, they show you exactly what happened. There's the first version, which is what Luke wished had happened. The second version, which is from Ben's perspective and twisted slightly by his own anger and hatred. And finally there's the third version, which is the truth.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Even if that's true, it still fails.

Planning to do does not equal done. There are other ways to stop it short of cold blooded murder.

That's why I have my Dark Side hypothesis. One could say that for brief moment, "twisted by the Dark Side, young Skywalker has become"...........or in this case old Skywalker :D
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Dude, they show you exactly what happened. There's the first version, which is what Luke wished had happened. The second version, which is from Ben's perspective and twisted slightly by his own anger and hatred. And finally there's the third version, which is the truth.
I'll have to take your word for it, though that's not how I remember it. I haven't been able to stomach a repeat viewing, so it's likely I forgot if what you say happened is how it went.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Ultimately, it's evidence of how NOT to make a trilogy. The OT, once developed into a trilogy after the success of Star Wars, was completely thought out, planned, written, edited ad nauseum and finalized long before the first scene was filmed. The PT, for all of its faults, was thought out, planned, written, edited ad nauseum before the first scene was filmed. There was a clear and concise vision agreed upon for the OT and PT. That is not the case for the ST, and that's why there will be so many problems with it. We get the individual story the director wants to tell, and the subsequent movies suffer.

The OT was nowhere near that planned out. They were still making changes to the storyline as they geared up for shooting ROTJ.


That said, Disney's ST seems much worse than either of the Lucas trilogies in this regard. The ST appears to be pretty much made up as they go along. Inexcusably so.
 
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Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

They probably went in intending to kill one of the 'big 3' OT characters in each movie.
They might have done that to some degree. After all Harrison Ford had been wanting Han killed off since ESB. And Lawrence Kasdan wanted to kill off Han since ESB as well. So he was probably slated for death right from the beginning. Plus his death helps cement Ben's want to be evil. Luke's death seem to be Rian's idea. And I would hazard a guess that Leia was going to survive, but Carrie's untimely passing is going to affect that.

And it would seem that people at Lucasfilm and ILM had been slowly planning for the new movies, before the sale to Disney. It sounds to me as if they planned out about 40%, maybe 30% percent of the ST. And they are letting the film makers have the rest of the creative control.


EDIT I had some issues getting the quote to work correctly
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

The OT was nowhere near that planned out. They were still making changes to the storyline as they geared up for shooting ROTJ.


That said, Disney's ST seems much worse than either of the Lucas trilogies in this regard. The ST appears to be pretty much made up as they go along. Inexcusably so.

Indeed. Case and point: the "REVENGE OF THE JEDI" title
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

And it would seem that people at Lucasfilm and ILM had been slowly planning for the new movies, before the sale to Disney. It sounds to me as if they planned out about 40%, maybe 30% percent of the ST. And they are letting the film makers have the rest of the creative control.

And exactly what evidence do you have to support that?
After your planning to sell Star Wars to Disney back in the eighties theory, I`m dying to hear the answer to this one.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

10% at best, nowhere near 40% of "planning" The only thing LFL and ILM were aware about was the limited Lucas outline that was eventually scrapped.
 
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Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

If they split ep9 in two... shouldn’t the sequel be called ep10?


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Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Can somebody please show me exactly where it officially says Kennedy is stepping down from Lucas Films otherwise this thread is completely useless, like most Star Wars threads of the last 20 or so years.
 
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