Solo: A Star Wars Story

Re: Star Wars Anthology (Young Han Solo)

Because it's a goof you wrote to troll people. And it was a good one. It's a joke because it's entirely subjective to who is being asked. But it's funny and I'm sure you giggle under that bridge that you live when you see people reference it. :)

No it's not. SWIQ is real.

Now, did I know it would upset liberals who deny the existence of absolute truths? You know, the kind of person who believes that Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen can credibly be called a better film than Citizen Kane, if an American Millennial (or typical Chinese person, according to some) says it is. Sure I knew that. So of course, in that sense, I was playfully prodding them. But make no mistake--SWIQ is real. And I genuinely wanted to share it with you.

Perhaps, though, I should've explained how I came up with it. My best friend is also a huge Star Wars fan (he's not a member of this site). He and I discuss the movies frequently, and share almost identical opinions about them. We've both been incredibly disappointed with TFA and R1 (although we agree R1 had a couple of good parts). During our many lengthy discussions, we'd wonder why so many fans, really have a poor understanding of what does and does not belong in a Star Wars film. We'd struggle to identify, or label, what it was, generally speaking, that they were "missing", and that we were "getting".

Searching for an appropriate description, I said, "It's like, they lack a certain Star Wars intelligence. Sure, they may know a ton of *facts* about Star Wars, but there's more to Star Wars than that. Just because they know stuff like, the Bothans stole the plans to the second Death Star, not the first, that doesn't mean they possess a proper understanding of what things do and don't belong in a Star Wars movie. Like Han allowing Greedo to get a shot off before blasting him. Anyone who thinks that's good, or even okay, has a low Star Wars IQ. A low SWIQ, if you will." My friend replied, "Yeah! SWIQ! That's it!".

So, that's how it came about. SWIQ is comprised of two complementary, but very separate elements:

1) Factual Star Wars knowledge.
2) A more subtle knowledge of Star Wars. The ability to recognize and appreciate all the things, large and small, that make a Star Wars film, a Star Wars film. And similarly, to recognize and criticize all the things, large and small, in Star Wars films that do not belong there.


The theatrical cuts of the first two films released were perfect. In ROTJ, things began going astray. The PT was a mess. And both Disney features were severely lacking. Countless things appeared or happened in those six films that should not be in a Star Wars film.

As I said when I introduced SWIQ on this site, it is absolute, even though it has the appearance of being subjective. Its subjectivity is an illusion. Meaning, I think I have a high SWIQ, and that fans who disagree with me have a low SWIQ--on things like, for instance, Leia snubbing Chewie in favor of comforting a perfect stranger, If you think that was bad, then in my estimation, that counts towards you having a high SWIQ. And if you think that was good, or even acceptable, then I'm gonna conclude you have a low SWIQ. Now, the subjective part means that, you will think I have a low SWIQ (even if you're not familiar with, or reject the SWIQ concept altogether). And naturally, you will think that you, and anyone who agrees with you on such things, possess high SWIQs. But, you'd be wrong. Because there are absolute truths to what does and does not belong in Star Wars films.

It's called SWIQ.

The Wook
 
Re: Star Wars Anthology (Young Han Solo)

I actually kinda like the SWIQ argument and am willing to entertain it. Although, for the scene when Leia snubbed Chewie, I think jj had come out and said that that was an error on his part and he should of had Leia embrace Chewie first. So if that was a confirmed error, should that detract from it's SWIQ if it's a confirmed error by it's director?(If I'm understanding your whole SWIQ thing correctly).
So if I am understanding it correctly then anything that goes astray from the first 2 movies has a lower SWIQ? But that being said, isn't that your own personal opinion that all star wars movies should not astray from the first 2? Help me out here Wook.
 
Re: Star Wars Anthology (Young Han Solo)

I actually kinda like the SWIQ argument and am willing to entertain it. Although, for the scene when Leia snubbed Chewie, I think jj had come out and said that that was an error on his part and he should of had Leia embrace Chewie first. So if that was a confirmed error, should that detract from it's SWIQ if it's a confirmed error by it's director?

JJ did say, after the move was out for at least a month, that it was an error to have Leia snub Chewie. But why did he say that? Does he really believe it was an error? Who knows? Here are the possibilities, and how they relate to SWIQ:

Scenario A: JJ did not understand that it was an error when he made the film. In this case, the error, which was an egregious one, shows he has a low SWIQ.
Scenario B: JJ did understand that it was an error, but chose to do it anyway, to allow for a female lead passing of the torch moment between Leia and Rey. If that was his decision, then the error doesn't necessarily lower his SWIQ, but he's a jerk for putting low-SWIQ crap like that in the film.
Scenario C: JJ did understand that is was an error, and wanted to do it the right way, but was ordered by Kathleen Kennedy to do it anyway. In this scenario, the error is not an indication of no SWIQ, but rather, no balls.

I don't know which scenario happened. All I know is the film contained the error. And that anyone, with a truly high SWIQ, would never allow that error in a film. If KK ordered me to do it that way, I'd say we do it the right way, or I walk.

So if I am understanding it correctly, then anything that goes astray from the first 2 movies has a lower SWIQ? But that being said, isn't that your own personal opinion that all Star Wars movies should not astray from the first 2? Help me out here Wook.

Here's where absolute truth comes in. For instance, I know there are some people who rank ROTJ as the best SW film. Almost always, it is because it is the first one they saw. And I get the nostalgia aspect of that. But in absolute terms, ROTJ is a steep drop-off from the theatrical cuts of Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back--both of which are masterpieces. That is absolute truth. Now, one of these fans, let's call him Eugene, who ranks ROTJ as the best SW film might say, "Well, that's your opinion. I think ROTJ is the best.". And he's entitled to that opinion. But, he's wrong. And has a low SWIQ for holding that opinion.

Unless Eugene said, "Ya know, of course, ANH and ESB are the best SW films. But for nostalgia reasons, ROTJ is my favorite.". Then, he's got a high SWIQ, because he acknowledges the absolute truth of the matter.

But, if Eugene said, "Not only is ROTJ my personal favorite of the SW films, for nostalgia reasons, because it is the first one I saw, it is also objectively the best of the SW films.", then I would know that he possesses a very low SWIQ. Anyone who thinks that Han surrendering his blaster and allowing himself to be roasted on a spit by teddy bears with spears is good, or even acceptable, has a low SWIQ.

The Wook
 
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Re: Star Wars Anthology (Young Han Solo)

Well I totally agree with you that ANH and ESB are masterpieces, and I think a lot of people would think the same however, there are some people who do generally like ROTJ or TFA etc. better. And not only for nostalgia but they generally think its a better movie (although nostalgia can play a huge part in it) Are they wrong? Maybe these people think Han is a better character for surrendering his blaster to the teddy bears. I can't tell these people that they are wrong because that's what they like. If it moves them the same way ANH/ESB moved me then how can they be wrong as to what Star Wars is the best one for them. In my opinion I think the SWIQ can possibly work for people like us who find the first 2 Star Wars the best, but I don't think I can generalize and say that it will work for everyone.
 
Re: Star Wars Anthology (Young Han Solo)

Here's where absolute truth comes in. For instance, I know there are some people who rank ROTJ as the best SW film. Almost always, it is because it is the first one they saw. And I get the nostalgia aspect of that. But in absolute terms, ROTJ is a steep drop-off from the theatrical cuts of Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back--both of which are masterpieces. That is absolute truth. Now, one of these fans, let's call him Eugene, who ranks ROTJ as the best SW film might say, "Well, that's your opinion. I think ROTJ is the best.". And he's entitled to that opinion. But, he's wrong. And has a low SWIQ for holding that opinion.

Unless Eugene said, "Ya know, of course, ANH and ESB are the best SW films. But for nostalgia reasons, ROTJ is my favorite.". Then, he's got a high SWIQ, because he acknowledges the absolute truth of the matter.

But, if Eugene said, "Not only is ROTJ my personal favorite of the SW films, for nostalgia reasons, because it is the first one I saw, it is also objectively the best of the SW films.", then I would know that he possesses a very low SWIQ. Anyone who thinks that Han surrendering his blaster and allowing himself to be roasted on a spit by teddy bears with spears is good, or even acceptable, has a low SWIQ.

The Wook


Let's focus on the Han and ewok scene for a minute. Nitz is right, it's meant as a character building moment for Han: they get caught in a very silly way by teddy bears. Han's first instinct is to draw his weapon and fight his way out. Luke, being more astute than Han, quickly realizes these ridiculous creatures could actually be helpful so he suggests to Han that they play along for the time being. Like Obi-Wan in the first movie, Luke realizes "there are alternatives to fighting."

Were you really going to admire Han if he shot a bunch of child-like teddy bears down? He's a better man than that. Is the whole scene overtly silly and a step down from the quality of story telling we got in SW and Empire? Absolutely, the ewoks in general, and this scene in particular, are embarrassingly juvenile. But whether we like it or not... hold onto your holochess pieces, Wook... thematically it works for the character's overall arc and the story Lucas is telling in ROTJ.
 
Re: Star Wars Anthology (Young Han Solo)

Were you really going to admire Han if he shot a bunch of child-like teddy bears down? He's a better man than that.

Weee-e-elllll . . . as much as I disagree with pretty much every single thing The Wook has said in this thread (or in the TLJ thread or in the TFA thread, for that matter) - Han was in a situation where, if he didn't take action, his captors were imminently going to cook him (alive) and (presumably) then eat him. That seems like a fine time to take action to defend yourselves and your friends. I don't recall anyone's feelings about Luke killing the rancor changing when we found out the beast was somebody's beloved pet, and I don't recall anyone objecting when Han was preparing to shoot the dianoga in the trash compactor, or when he shot mynocks after technically parking his spaceship in their home. Let's not even get into the wampa, who lost an arm for just walking up to Luke . . . .

M
 
Re: Star Wars Anthology (Young Han Solo)

But the question arises: Who determines SWIQ? You? Me? This seems like a rather dictatorial ranking system, where one person is deciding for all fans what exactly a "good SW" movie is, based on his or her own biased notions of what makes SW, SW. Do Gungans belong in SW? I don't think that's for a fan to decide. The fact is they exist, and fans have to accept that, even if they don't like it.
 
Re: Star Wars Anthology (Young Han Solo)

Weee-e-elllll . . . as much as I disagree with pretty much every single thing The Wook has said in this thread (or in the TLJ thread or in the TFA thread, for that matter) - Han was in a situation where, if he didn't take action, his captors were imminently going to cook him (alive) and (presumably) then eat him. That seems like a fine time to take action to defend yourselves and your friends. I don't recall anyone's feelings about Luke killing the rancor changing when we found out the beast was somebody's beloved pet, and I don't recall anyone objecting when Han was preparing to shoot the dianoga in the trash compactor, or when he shot mynocks after technically parking his spaceship in their home. Let's not even get into the wampa, who lost an arm for just walking up to Luke . . . .

M


All true but the difference here is that Luke senses these non-blinking, furry critters may actually be helpful if dealt with more patiently. So he convinces Han to play along for a bit. Han defers to Luke's better judgment which, in this case, turns out to be the right instinct.
 
Re: Star Wars Anthology (Young Han Solo)

While I usually split 50/50 with agreeing/disagreeing with the Wook, the SWIQ thing is ridiculous.

And opinions can't be wrong. You can disagree, but an opinion can't be wrong... it's an opinion.

I'll also state that I have the most fun watching ROTJ of the original Trilogy.
 
Re: Star Wars Anthology (Young Han Solo)

JJ did say, after the move was out for at least a month, that it was an error to have Leia snub Chewie. But why did he say that? Does he really believe it was an error? Who knows? Here are the possibilities, and how they relate to SWIQ:

Scenario A: JJ did not understand that it was an error when he made the film. In this case, the error, which was an egregious one, shows he has a low SWIQ.
Scenario B: JJ did understand that it was an error, but chose to do it anyway, to allow for a female lead passing of the torch moment between Leia and Rey. If that was his decision, then the error doesn't necessarily lower his SWIQ, but he's a jerk for putting low-SWIQ crap like that in the film.
Scenario C: JJ did understand that is was an error, and wanted to do it the right way, but was ordered by Kathleen Kennedy to do it anyway. In this scenario, the error is not an indication of no SWIQ, but rather, no balls.

The Wook

Scenario D: JJ didn't think about putting an exchange between Leia and Chewie during scripting and didn't realize it was something they should have done until after the movie opened and someone pointed it out. Sometimes you just miss stuff, until someone with fresh eyes sees it.
 
Re: Star Wars Anthology (Young Han Solo)

While I usually split 50/50 with agreeing/disagreeing with the Wook, the SWIQ thing is ridiculous.

And opinions can't be wrong. You can disagree, but an opinion can't be wrong... it's an opinion.

I'll also state that I have the most fun watching ROTJ of the original Trilogy.

Yeah, the problem with the SWIQ thing is that it practically reduces these movies to a mathematical equation. It leaves no room for anyone else's interpretation.
 
Re: Star Wars Anthology (Young Han Solo)

But the question arises: Who determines SWIQ? You? Me? This seems like a rather dictatorial ranking system, where one person is deciding for all fans what exactly a "good SW" movie is, based on his or her own biased notions of what makes SW, SW. Do Gungans belong in SW? I don't think that's for a fan to decide. The fact is they exist, and fans have to accept that, even if they don't like it.

Only one person assigns SWIQ's and the appearance is two fold. Some seem issued on actual knowledge of the subject matter, and others seem satirical. You get a 'you have a high SWIQ, you have to read between the lines to figure out if it's sincere or not.

But the majority of evidence is, if you agree with him, you get a high score, if you don't, you get a low score.

I'm willing to entertain the notion, but there has to be a legitimate scoring system assigned by impartial means. Not whatever one person feels like at the moment.
 
Re: Star Wars Anthology (Young Han Solo)

Only one person assigns SWIQ's and the appearance is two fold. Some seem issued on actual knowledge of the subject matter, and others seem satirical. You get a 'you have a high SWIQ, you have to read between the lines to figure out if it's sincere or not.

But the majority of evidence is, if you agree with him, you get a high score, if you don't, you get a low score.

I'm willing to entertain the notion, but there has to be a legitimate scoring system assigned by impartial means. Not whatever one person feels like at the moment.

And should the arbiter of the SWIQ none sense really be someone who has hated all SW films since 1980? I think a broader sample size provides better data. :)
 
Re: Star Wars Anthology (Young Han Solo)

Han's softened character in ROTJ -

Show me a harsh selfish/unfriendly Han Solo moment from ANH or ESB. I'll probably show you something related to Han either owing money to Jabba, dealing with Jabba's bounty hunters, or dealing with Lando betraying him.

In ROTJ all of that was gone.

Han's character didn't get weak in ROTJ, his entire life circumstances just changed. He got a big brush with death, followed by a rescue from another death. That makes people start valuing their friends & family more.

The princess and the farm boy in ANH had also morphed into a potent leader/fighter and a Jedi Knight. Han didn't need to try to lead all the time because he trusted their judgment more than before. And besides, Han was never a great smart leader in the first place. He was ballsy & lucky as much as anything. He must have known that even though he might not like admitting it.
 
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