Disney in talks to buy Fox studio assets..

MrSouthpaw · Dec 14, 2017

Solo4114 said:
It depends heavily on how they do it and on the technological and financial issues involved.

They already did a 4k restoration of ANH just so the R1 team could study it, according to Gareth Edwards. Must be relatively cheap too, if they only did it for production notes.

The only real issue is what qualifies as the original cut since there are minor variations out there and humans like to squabble.

SethS · Dec 14, 2017

Not to reignite the old arguement from another thread, but hardcore OT purists greatly overestimate the worth of an unaltered OT release to what is now, easily, the biggest movie studio on the planet.

While the nerd in me is thrilled for SW and Marvel, my professional side is worried, and if you like to complain about a lack of original concepts out of Hollywood, it’s now going to be worse. Any given studio will take small chances on new material, with this merger you essentially lose one studio taking those chances. The likelihood of competing projects is so high, a ton of projects are about to get put into turnaround.

PantheraGem · Dec 14, 2017

Yes. I think this is very bad for filmmakers, or anyone with highly original content in mind.

cayman shen · Dec 14, 2017

I've seen a LOT of really obscure crap on bluray. Disney absolutely would be able to profit from the OOT. They can charge boutique prices and get away with it too.

I know that's not Disney's main concern in this purchase, but it's the only issue I care about.

MrSouthpaw · Dec 14, 2017

SethS said:
Not to reignite the old arguement from another thread, but hardcore OT purists greatly overestimate the worth of an unaltered OT release to what is now, easily, the biggest movie studio on the planet.

While the nerd in me is thrilled for SW and Marvel, my professional side is worried, and if you like to complain about a lack of original concepts out of Hollywood, it’s now going to be worse. Any given studio will take small chances on new material, with this merger you essentially lose one studio taking those chances. The likelihood of competing projects is so high, a ton of projects are about to get put into turnaround.

Netflix and Amazon exist. Both are highly interested in making their own original content so they don't have to rely on others content. And I'm sure there will be more like them.

cayman shen · Dec 14, 2017

SethS said:
Your math assumes the average person is a big Star Wars fan. That's just not the case.

It's the biggest franchise in film history, no? The average person may not be a BIG fan, but they just made hundreds of millions of dollars on a whole movie based on a throwaway line in the opening crawl of a 40 year old film. Zardoz isn't getting a Rogue One style prequel. There is money to be made. I just bought Cannibal Holocaust on blu-ray, in a really beautiful, deluxe treatment package. I also just bought the Hidden Fortress. Neither is obscure to genre fans and cinephiles, but they're not mainstream by any means, and certainly not what you'd think of as cash cows. Yet they exist. I've bought discs that were far more obscure than either of those, too.

The OOT could turn a profit. AND it would be an act of goodwill that would cause critics to praise Disney, generating free publicity. It would also deflect "entertainment monopoly" criticisms, displaying a genuine care for film. Reputations matter, and this could help Disney, and make money at the same time.

JoeG · Dec 14, 2017

I think Solo4114 is right. When 4K displays become the norm, that will be Disney's chance to release the OOT. Doubt we'll see it before then, though. I have a hard time believing most people would see the reason to purchase a Star Wars bluray boxset again. I just dont think people beyond the really hardcore Star Wars fans know the difference.

Bryancd · Dec 14, 2017

Speaking of 4K....

https://makingstarwars.net/2017/12/star-wars-last-jedi-hitting-4k-blu-ray-next-year/

Bryancd · Dec 14, 2017

cayman shen said:
It's the biggest franchise in film history, no? The average person may not be a BIG fan, but they just made hundreds of millions of dollars on a whole movie based on a throwaway line in the opening crawl of a 40 year old film. Zardoz isn't getting a Rogue One style prequel. There is money to be made. I just bought Cannibal Holocaust on blu-ray, in a really beautiful, deluxe treatment package. I also just bought the Hidden Fortress. Neither is obscure to genre fans and cinephiles, but they're not mainstream by any means, and certainly not what you'd think of as cash cows. Yet they exist. I've bought discs that were far more obscure than either of those, too.

The OOT could turn a profit. AND it would be an act of goodwill that would cause critics to praise Disney, generating free publicity. It would also deflect "entertainment monopoly" criticisms, displaying a genuine care for film. Reputations matter, and this could help Disney, and make money at the same time.

It is the biggest franchise in film history but the key word is "franchise" not any single film. Myself, Dan, Seth, have said previously the value of ANH is diminishing over time. Even in its Special Edition form it's considered slow and quaint by younger fans. Most fans of STAR WARS own a media version and are becoming less and less likely to make an additional purchase of film they already own when they have no nostalgia attached to the OOT version. And although I think it unlikely Disney included an actual provision in the sale that they wouldn't touch GL's special edition I do agree with Dan that KK and all of LucasFilm would be against violating his wishes and Disney has allowed LF to maintain control of their operations and wouldn't force them to do it, especially for such little gain.

Snikt · Dec 14, 2017

Bryancd said:
It is the biggest franchise in film history but the key word is "franchise" not any single film. Myself, Dan, Seth, have said previously the value of ANH is diminishing over time. Even in its Special Edition form it's considered slow and quaint by younger fans. Most fans of STAR WARS own a media version and are becoming less and less likely to make an additional purchase of film they already own when they have no nostalgia attached to the OOT version. And although I think it unlikely Disney included an actual provision in the sale that they wouldn't touch GL's special edition I do agree with Dan that KK and all of LucasFilm would be against violating his wishes and Disney has allowed LF to maintain control of their operations and wouldn't force them to do it, especially for such little gain.

Running the numbers, if anyone knows, how much would it actually cost to get the OT in blu ray form? Look how nostalgia sells right now. If they marketed right, I bet it would make quite a bit of money if they released the uncut original trilogy. Look at nintendo and what they did with their mini consoles and how they didnt think the nintendo classic wasnt going to sell that much. Bam. Sold it constantly, and sold out everywhere. And F George Lucas. This is business, and giving the fans what they want. The stupid SE is out there. George Lucas is a nutjob regarding the OT, he doesnt understand the emotional attachment that people have to the OT. Thats why he butchers them on a whim. I swear the dude is an android. I know all my friends would buy the OT if it came out on blu ray. My mom probably would too.

Bryancd · Dec 14, 2017

Snikt said:
Running the numbers, if anyone knows, how much would it actually cost to get the OT in blu ray form? Look how nostalgia sells right now. If they marketed right, I bet it would make quite a bit of money if they released the uncut original trilogy. Look at nintendo and what they did with their mini consoles and how they didnt think the nintendo classic wasnt going to sell that much. Bam. Sold it constantly, and sold out everywhere. And F George Lucas. This is business, and giving the fans what they want. The stupid SE is out there. George Lucas is a nutjob regarding the OT, he doesnt understand the emotional attachment that people have to the OT. Thats why he butchers them on a whim. I swear the dude is an android. I know all my friends would buy the OT if it came out on blu ray. My mom probably would too.

Problem is the fans who want this can't even decide which version to remaster. And your feeling about GL aren't shared by the management and employees at Lucasfilm.

cayman shen · Dec 14, 2017

Bryancd said:
It is the biggest franchise in film history but the key word is "franchise" not any single film. Myself, Dan, Seth, have said previously the value of ANH is diminishing over time. Even in its Special Edition form it's considered slow and quaint by younger fans. Most fans of STAR WARS own a media version and are becoming less and less likely to make an additional purchase of film they already own when they have no nostalgia attached to the OOT version. And although I think it unlikely Disney included an actual provision in the sale that they wouldn't touch GL's special edition I do agree with Dan that KK and all of LucasFilm would be against violating his wishes and Disney has allowed LF to maintain control of their operations and wouldn't force them to do it, especially for such little gain.

It's considered slow and quaint, but old movies still sell, and sell fairly well in some cases. I hear you, but I simply can't believe there's no market. Go on blu-ray.com and check out the old stuff that gets the high def treatment week after week. I KNOW in many minds the OT IS available, but I teach high school and I can tell you plenty young nerds are aware Han shot first.

I have to believe this lol.

I AM concerned about the "respecting Lucas' wishes" though. That seems like a bigger potential issue.

SethS · Dec 14, 2017

MrSouthpaw said:
Netflix and Amazon exist. Both are highly interested in making their own original content so they don't have to rely on others content. And I'm sure there will be more like them.

Netflix and Amazon still have trouble making a big impact in terms of features. As far as TV is concerned-- 100% And Disney is starting a new content service, Apple has had one gearing up behind the scenes for years. Direct content is the future for home entertainment-- but features are a different beast. Features that go direct to VOD services are still looked down upon or not taken as seriously (outside of a few exceptions like Beasts of No Nation for example).

cayman shen said:
It's the biggest franchise in film history, no? The average person may not be a BIG fan, but they just made hundreds of millions of dollars on a whole movie based on a throwaway line in the opening crawl of a 40 year old film. Zardoz isn't getting a Rogue One style prequel. There is money to be made. I just bought Cannibal Holocaust on blu-ray, in a really beautiful, deluxe treatment package. I also just bought the Hidden Fortress. Neither is obscure to genre fans and cinephiles, but they're not mainstream by any means, and certainly not what you'd think of as cash cows. Yet they exist. I've bought discs that were far more obscure than either of those, too.

The OOT could turn a profit. AND it would be an act of goodwill that would cause critics to praise Disney, generating free publicity. It would also deflect "entertainment monopoly" criticisms, displaying a genuine care for film. Reputations matter, and this could help Disney, and make money at the same time.

LOL-- I said I didn't want to go back to this argument. I'd change my tune if I could see some market research numbers, but at this point in Star Wars history both the OR ANH and the SE version have existed for 20 years. The SE is the more current version, and long since considered "official" by Lucasfilm, Fox and Disney. If you go the looking, the ONLY people who want an unaltered release are old Star Wars fans like us. They are focused on making new content, not doing what Lucas did which was repackage the OT every few years. They've put their money into the future of the franchise, not the past. Until I see some real polls or market research done OUTSIDE of fandom, I just don't see the numbers as there.

And yeah, the point about them honoring Lucas' wishes, is a pretty big one as long as Kathy is in control.

Bryancd · Dec 14, 2017

cayman shen said:
It's considered slow and quaint, but old movies still sell, and sell fairly well in some cases. I hear you, but I simply can't believe there's no market. Go on blu-ray.com and check out the old stuff that gets the high def treatment week after week. I KNOW in many minds the OT IS available, but I teach high school and I can tell you plenty young nerds are aware Han shot first.

I have to believe this lol.

I AM concerned about the "respecting Lucas' wishes" though. That seems like a bigger potential issue.

So let's say it could cost $5-$10M to do the work, create the product, market it, etc. And let's say they can sell $20M gross. Sure it's profitable but it's a rounding error on Disney's balance sheet and at what cost? GL's reputation would take a hit and what about all the artists and creators out there who now feel their work is never really their own to have creative control over? It's bad PR to that community and Disney needs them. And this goes beyond KK's tenure.

cboath · Dec 14, 2017

Bryancd said:
It is the biggest franchise in film history but the key word is "franchise" not any single film. Myself, Dan, Seth, have said previously the value of ANH is diminishing over time. Even in its Special Edition form it's considered slow and quaint by younger fans. Most fans of STAR WARS own a media version and are becoming less and less likely to make an additional purchase of film they already own when they have no nostalgia attached to the OOT version. And although I think it unlikely Disney included an actual provision in the sale that they wouldn't touch GL's special edition I do agree with Dan that KK and all of LucasFilm would be against violating his wishes and Disney has allowed LF to maintain control of their operations and wouldn't force them to do it, especially for such little gain.

Quite frankly, when you look at what's gotten the 4K treatment, your argument holds less and less water. There's some really oddball stuff out there.

As I said, the only thing sold the last 20 years is SE based. If the next one is OOT - that's a bit different. It doesn't have to sell remotely near what the 4k Last Jedi will sell this coming April or so. A three film set could be priced around $50 with LFL pulling down at least half of it and it wouldn't take long to break even. I mean, they still sell them now, right? So they're still producing them. A new 4k set of something not done in decades will sell. Especially if you don't offer an SE version simultaneously. It doesn't have to sell 50M copies or anything.

It's perfectly feasible. And not everything has to be done to rake in cash, they're already in the black after the purchase so it's not like they have to tread lightly at this point.

MrSouthpaw · Dec 14, 2017

Bryancd said:
It is the biggest franchise in film history but the key word is "franchise" not any single film. Myself, Dan, Seth, have said previously the value of ANH is diminishing over time. Even in its Special Edition form it's considered slow and quaint by younger fans. Most fans of STAR WARS own a media version and are becoming less and less likely to make an additional purchase of film they already own when they have no nostalgia attached to the OOT version. And although I think it unlikely Disney included an actual provision in the sale that they wouldn't touch GL's special edition I do agree with Dan that KK and all of LucasFilm would be against violating his wishes and Disney has allowed LF to maintain control of their operations and wouldn't force them to do it, especially for such little gain.

This loyalty thing again?

MrSouthpaw said:
Kathleen Kennedy also said George Lucas was the keeper of the flame. Stated Lucas would be a creative consultant for the new trilogy. Did that happen?

http://www.businessinsider.com/george-lucas-creative-consultant-role-in-star-wars-2012-11

Nope.

http://ew.com/article/2015/11/20/george-lucas-star-wars-force-awakens-breakup/

Doesn't really seem all that loyal to me.

@Snikt
Apparently 4k resto are cheap enough they can do them to just watch in-house.

http://lwlies.com/interviews/gareth-edwards-rogue-one-a-star-wars-story/

When you went back and watched the original films did you take copious notes?

On day one, we were in Lucasfilm in San Francisco with Industrial Light and Magic and John Knoll, our supervisor, he said that they’ve got a brand new 4K restoration print of A New Hope – it had literally just been finished. He suggested we sit and watch it. Obviously, I was up for that. Me, the writer, lots of the story people and John all sat down, we all had our little notepads, we were all ready for this. I’ll add that I’ve seen A New Hope hundreds of times. So I was sat there, ready to take notes and really delve under the surface of the film. You have the Fox fanfare, then scrolling text with ‘A long time ago…’, and then the main music begins. Next thing we knew it had ended, and we looked around to one another and just thought – ****, we didn’t take any notes. You can’t watch it without getting carried away. It’s really hard to get into an analytical filmmaker headspace with this film. It just turns you into a child.

Maybe this can put to rest the idea that these are cost-prohibitive.

cboath · Dec 14, 2017

Bryancd said:
So let's say it could cost $5-$10M to do the work, create the product, market it, etc. And let's say they can sell $20M gross. Sure it's profitable but it's a rounding error on Disney's balance sheet and at what cost? GL's reputation would take a hit and what about all the artists and creators out there who now feel their work is never really their own to have creative control over? It's bad PR to that community and Disney needs them. And this goes beyond KK's tenure.

Once you sell your work and it's rights, it's no longer yours to control. Not sure how his reputation takes a hit, either. No one is removing his tweaked versions, they're just offering the original version in a much better format than it is currently available in. Plus, If it survived the prequels, this is a barely a drop in the bucket.

You also have George's own statements about preserving films as they were as well.

MrSouthpaw · Dec 14, 2017

SethS said:
Netflix and Amazon still have trouble making a big impact in terms of features. As far as TV is concerned-- 100% And Disney is starting a new content service, Apple has had one gearing up behind the scenes for years. Direct content is the future for home entertainment-- but features are a different beast. Features that go direct to VOD services are still looked down upon or not taken as seriously (outside of a few exceptions like Beasts of No Nation for example).

Looked down upon by who? Not taken as seriously by who? Audiences are eating it up.

Bryancd · Dec 14, 2017

cboath said:
Once you sell your work and it's rights, it's no longer yours to control..

I don't disagree with that but within the industry feelings are different. Just look at the reactions to this deal from people screaming studio monopoly and creative people losing control of their work.

SethS · Dec 14, 2017

To be blunt— critical acclaim and more sophisticated audiences, yes— but the not the mainstream, mass market theater goers. It’s mostly a question of marketing.

Disney in talks to buy Fox studio assets..

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