The only relevant defense against the Mary Sue accusations is.... she's not.
Dude, I've literally agreed with you that her proficiency is accelerated. I'm willing to accept a little more time passage than you are... I never said it was "long" period of delay between the manifestation of powers and what we see her doing toward the end of TLJ.
I'm *ALSO* willing to accept what we've been literally told in the films: that the Force is now behaving in an unexpected way and growing in people stronger than it has in the past. Then there's also the fact that Rey grew up in an environment that taught her to fight, to be creative in finding and repairing things, and to use her mind and body in ways that made her very receptive to whatever it is the Force is expanding to now.
Liuke was a moisture farmer who blew up the Death Star.
Rey was a scrappy survivor with combat skills who... battled to a draw with a dude who had a hole in his stomach.
Even so, are there things in the new movies that can be picked apart if looked at closely? Sure. Just as those same things can be justified by an alternative argument. That's pretty much been the par for the course for all of Star Wars.
I mean, we've had almost 40 years to accept just how out of left field it was for Luke to use telekinesis to pull the Lightsaber out of the snow. How did he even know the Force could do this given that absolutely nothing in A New Hope suggested that this was a thing? The glossed over excuse is that 3 years had passed between ANH and Empire, so he learned things in that time... OK. Still, how did he figure out that was a thing he could do? And if the Force is so strong within the Skywalkers, why does he seem to struggle with it so much? If 3 years had passed, why did Obi Wan wait until mere moments before Luke might actually freeze to death to first appear to him and tell him about Yoda? Wouldn't it have been better for Luke to have been training with Yoda these past 3 years before "too old is he..."?
But, you know.... it's the "holy" Original Trilogy, so we're not allowed to apply critical thinking to all of it's weird plot holes and idiosyncrasies.
How did Luke learn to fight? Were there frequent brawls over power converters at Tosche Station that we never saw? In the film, it certainly feels like Luke is only training with Yoda for a few days before rushing off and then actually not doing too poorly against Vader. OR we can hypothesize that it actually took some time to get to Bespin in a Falcon with a broken hyperdrive, and therefore Luke was training for awhile with Yoda (potentially learning something of Lightsaber combat).
I want one of those irons.
Now you have to admit, that scene was rather ridiculous.:lol
The walrus teet scene, the Poe "on hold" scene, the iron scene, the leaking Finn suite scene. Put a few of those scenes together and you have over an hour parody movie of its own.
You don't seem to have a problem with Luke learning something fast here.
Luke's lack of proficiency, the time it took, who his family is, makes Rey's force proficiency all the more mysterious and makes it looks like she goes through it with too much ease.
Maybe OWK knew he had taught Luke everything he could and it was finally time to send him to Yoda.
You can feel free to make a topic about "Plot holes in the OT" if you really think it's an issue.
There was absolutely nothing in the film to suggest Obi Wan had been in communication with Luke up until that moment in the snow. In fact, Luke seemed surprised by the encounter. But here you are, willing to rationalize how this could all make sense, but unwilling to accept rationalization for how the new trilogy makes sense? Seems a bit hypocritical to me...
If Rey is the ACTUAL CHOSEN ONE from the prophecy that is pretty much the only thing that does NOT make her a so called Mary sue . in my opinion .
Which she looks to be the case as she seems to balance the force within herself instinctively !
The kids at the end of TLJ had hard lives too and they did not magically mind trick there slave driving owner or something , because there still learning !!!!!!!
And if anybody has ever been a false prophet or whatever , it was Anakin !
Instead of showing the Jedi the error of there ways he killed em !
Besides everyone knows Anakin's dad was just some random trooper not the FORCE lol.
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Anakin brought balance to the Force. He was not the actual balance, He brought it, in a bloodline that started with him. Thats why I believe Kylo lied to Rey... Rey is a Skywalker.
You're right! I do NOT have a problem with Luke just figuring out something about the Force. That is literally exactly my point! The original films and the prequels are filled with just as much nonsense that makes absolutely zero sense if you look at it too closely. But we just accept them.
I have zero doubts in my mind that were the original films released in today's over-connected, over analytical culture, Luke's abilities would be ripped apart just as much as Rey's.
What, exactly, did Luke struggle with other than lifting the X-wing?
My point was that in Empire, we see Luke try out something we have NEVER seen before... and he succeeds on the first try. Now, we *can* over think it, like I was trying to point out in my previous post.... but from what we see in the movie, Obi Wan wasn't training him. Luke seemed pretty surprised when he showed up in the snow, so it's pretty safe to assume his Force ghost wasn't just hanging out.
So what we get is Luke hanging there going, "hey, I wonder if this will work?" And it does. How is that ANY different than Rey? Keep in mind, when the film came out, how much time exactly had passed between ANH and Empire was completely unknown to audiences.
There was absolutely nothing in the film to suggest Obi Wan had been in communication with Luke up until that moment in the snow. In fact, Luke seemed surprised by the encounter. But here you are, willing to rationalize how this could all make sense, but unwilling to accept rationalization for how the new trilogy makes sense? Seems a bit hypocritical to me...
My point was to illustrate that the original films are just as silly and illogical as these new, but they get a pass.
Im still not clear why some continue to struggle with Rey's relationship to the Force. The answer is we still don't know why she is as powerful as she is, she doesn't know why in the film either, so the character and audience are having the same experience. That's by design. Trying to compare training montages and duration of training between the characters is a waste of time. Rey is unique, we have never seen anything like her in STAR WARS up until now regarding her Force abilities. We can glean that the Light brought her forth to combat the Dark as per Snoke but that's all for now.
Be patient, let them tell her story.
Maybe she is a Vulcan and is 110 years old
One of the defenses against all the quick powers and the Mary Sue accusations last time was well.. we don't know who she is related to yet. Wait for the next movie to explain.
So where is your complaint about him pulling the saber in ESB coming from?
Since Rey hasn't struggled with anything concerning the force, Luke struggling with the X-wing is more than enough of an example. Also, he struggled to force-pull the saber in the snow cave.
What we see in the movies is OWK guiding Luke in the trench-run. Then during the opening crawl of ESB we see the story is that Luke and the rebels establish a whole new base on Hoth, which would take significant time considering the tunneling, infrastructure we see in the movie. So anyone who actually pays attention to the movies was clued into the fact that it was a significant period of time between them. And it is truly silly to believe Luke wouldn't investigate the force or these strange new abilities he has in the time between movies.
Luke's ability to force-pull suggest OWK was training him between the movies
You're the one running away from the rational fact of Kylo Ren's facial wound and the short time it would take to heal. And the fact that he's still bandaged says only a very short time has passed. You're also ignoring Rey and Poe somehow avoiding each other on the resistance base until she leaves to find Luke. I've brought up those points twice so you're twice a hypocrite by your own standard.
And the OT is factually a lot less silly and illogical as these new movies. Poe's "hold please, yo momma" joke alone destroys any notion that TLJ has the same gravity as any OT movie.
She has had so much time though. Thats why its disappointing. Since there is only one more movie on the docket with these characters, its all going to be hastily thrown together in the last movie. Granted Im not a writer, but whatever they do in the last movie, I dont see how it wont seem rushed, or...forced. (pun intended)Im still not clear why some continue to struggle with Rey's relationship to the Force. The answer is we still don't know why she is as powerful as she is, she doesn't know why in the film either, so the character and audience are having the same experience. That's by design. Trying to compare training montages and duration of training between the characters is a waste of time. Rey is unique, we have never seen anything like her in STAR WARS up until now regarding her Force abilities. We can glean that the Light brought her forth to combat the Dark as per Snoke but that's all for now.
Be patient, let them tell her story.
You know what would have been great?
If, at the end, Rey was trying to lift the rocks but had difficulty.
So then Leia did it with her.
It would have been a great moment of Leia using the force. Less Mary Sue. Less poppins
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Stop inventing an argument.