Lichtbringer
Master Member
Agreed. Both new versions are better than the outdated stuff.
Rogue Troopers
- Thread starter spacebob
- Start date
ggriffaw
Sr Member
The helmet and holster attachment were different. Both stunt and hero helmets were used for close-ups. The hero and stunt frown are pretty noticeably different.
Anyone unhappy about the R1 suits not looking exactly like ANH should not be happy with two different helmets in ANH. The argument against the R1 changes is it takes place shortly before ANH. Based on that logic, the helmets within ANH should be consistent as well.
If you can explain the ANH helmet differences, use the same explanation for the R1 suits.
ggriffaw
Sr Member
The painting on Luke's X-Wing pilot helmet changes from scene to scene. What is the explanation for that? The makers of the film did not worry about inconsistencies from scene to scene even for the exact same item. Film makers worry about making a good film, not pleasing people obsessed with every detail of the props.
Wait. Why are we complaining about these not being exactly the same as ANH?
A DIFFERENT SUIT MEANS THAT'S ANOTHER SUIT WE GET TO ADD TO OUR COLLECTIONS!
A DIFFERENT SUIT MEANS THAT'S ANOTHER SUIT WE GET TO ADD TO OUR COLLECTIONS!
Buliwif
Active Member
I think this completely qualifies as a "'nuff said" statement. Sculptors start sculptin', Pep designers start peppin' and for the rest of us... start savin up for parts!
HDPE
Well-Known Member
With this argumentation it´s better you go to the entertainment forums.
Otherwise suck it down that different suit were used ..... and study the details of the new and now actual armor, as they won´t change it to please some.
Get over it, the old suits are done, only for cosplayers now.
Hilarious, that's one hell of a punchline there, good job.
Why on hearth would I waste my time studying that turd, the FX armor with RT mod helmet has been well documented since 1999/2004.
I'm not a cosplayer.
That last statement of yours tells me all I need to know about yourself.
I have no idea what you're talking about. Who said they needed to consult me. Who on earth would believe that the film makers would take input from us or reshoot scenes to please us ???????
You missed my point entirely but my post was made in a rush.
When I wrote 'we hardcore trooper enthusiast' I ment we ANH hardcore trooper enthusiast expect it to look exactly as it was in ANH, since ANH starts right after the end of R1. I stand by my statement I see it as a continuity error.
I totally respect your wish to have whatever suits you in your collection.
No, background helmets incorrectly ended being used in close up scenes, that's not what they were meant for. That 's a continuity error as well. Never said ANH was continuity errors free.
Personally I have nothing against new designs. I loved the First Order in TFA and bought the Anovos, my favorite design being the snowtrooper.
Also I never said they should have used off the shelf trooper suits for the new film.
All they had to do is get in touch with the private collector who owns the ANH hero suit which EFX copied and start from there using perhaps more suitable materials to accommodate the actors.
Instead, it seems to me, but that's just my personal opinion, that they just Googled stormtrooper, and used fan made suits as reference (incorrect ones at that).
Also let's not forget that some of the extras on ROTJ were Crescent city locals, certainly not professional actors or stuntmen.
I seriously doubt they asked for input to the stuntmen and actors who played stormtroopers in the classic trilogy to accommodate and modify the design and I don't buy the elite theory.
They are just that : stormtroopers.
Just like they **** up Special edition sand troopers, and as mentioned Yoda, Jabba, the Jedi Rock crap at the Palace, and Hayden instead of Sebastian Shaw .
Even my 5 years and 8 years old nephews could spot that.
Lichtbringer
Master Member
Cause otherwise you would be an ignoring forever yesterday guy, sitting in his little happy world of gone days?
The new suits are now SW history, no matter if you like it.
Sure?
I knew you would prefer the fat Kermit. :rolleyes
That's my thought. Hell, they brought Brian back. That's the best start these producers could have done.
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Even then the Hero Helmet (allegedly used for close-ups) was used in a random manner - not just for close-ups. There are plenty of scenes where a stunt and a hero are standing side-by-side, or a hero helmet is playing second fiddle to a stunt by being placed in the background. ...Lucas wasn't a stickler for details. LOL
ggriffaw
Sr Member
Do people really think that Lucasfilm wanted to make as close of a copy as possible of the ANH suit but didn't because they couldn't get ahold of one?
I think it was an intentional decision to update the design. I can understand some not liking it, but the majority of movie goers will like it. Most won't even notice the difference.
I think it was an intentional decision to update the design. I can understand some not liking it, but the majority of movie goers will like it. Most won't even notice the difference.
ggriffaw
Sr Member
There were multiple versions of the same lightsaber used in the films and promo shots for the films. Not just resin stunt and hero versions.
I think someone found a scene with a stunt Stormtrooper helmet and hero belt on the same guy.
Continuity of the props was not a high priority even on the same film. Now we are talking about a 40 year gap. I would have been more surprised if they did not make changes.
Tan Djarka
Sr Member
You know 99.9% of the public neither knows nor cares about the differences in the helmets and armor. Heck, you can even do a test with four pictures. Show them a pic of an OT suit and ask them what it is, they'd say "stromtrooper". A pic from Rogue One would draw the response, as would a pic from TFA. And the kicker is, if you then show them a pic from AOTC, they'd probably still identify it as a stormtrooper.
The truth is: even fans of the series won't notice any difference from one film to the next. It only makes a difference if you're trying to replicate a particular set of armor, from a particular film. And what's the deal with the "cosplay" comment? I'm not one, and I couldn't say I'm really defending them, but some of their costumes are not only impressive from a purely practical standpoint, but often accurate as well (aren't the 501st and Rebel Legion considered cosplay?).
The truth is: even fans of the series won't notice any difference from one film to the next. It only makes a difference if you're trying to replicate a particular set of armor, from a particular film. And what's the deal with the "cosplay" comment? I'm not one, and I couldn't say I'm really defending them, but some of their costumes are not only impressive from a purely practical standpoint, but often accurate as well (aren't the 501st and Rebel Legion considered cosplay?).
Buliwif
Active Member
I couldn't agree more. this is an official Lucasfilm production with access to the Lucasfilm archives, so I think we can put to bed any ideas or suggestions that they went anywhere else for their references.
HDPE
Well-Known Member
That is absolutely not what I said or wrote.
Reading between lines is one thing, completely extrapolating is another.
For your information the only Complete surviving Hero helmet is in a private collection, the Lucasfilm archives only has one surviving hero helmet and it is incomplete.
There isn't enough original ANH/ESB styled suits left at the archives to shoot a film. Those should be preserved as artifacts. The molds are long gone and do not exist any more in the Lucasfilm archives.
They didn't even still existed for ESB and that's why they made plaster molds from the outside of one suit which gave us the ESB mk 2 and ROTJ suits.
I was the first one along with Paul aka TrooperMaster to make the MK2 suit discoveries, document them and share them on the RPF. For a reason
that escapes me ,Paul is now banned from the RPF, otherwise he would have confirmed.
When I said : ' I never said they should have used of the shelf suits' , I ment to have some consistency and tie R1 and ANH together, as far as
continuity is concerned, they could have at least used the last complete hero helmet in existence and its very well preserved armour, rather than
make a complete new design which looks like FX armour.
The hero helmet being the more detailed of the two .(hero and background/stunt)
Personally I prefer background helmets but that's not the point.
(On a side note, I could be completely wrong on that one , so please correct me, but I don't think the deal between Disney and Lucas included the archives which still belongs to Lucas.)
I realize that I'm a poor writer and perhaps take too many shortcuts but it seems to me that people don't really understand, or care to, with what I ment concerning continuity errors.
Let me take an example : in ROTJ there are two types of stormtrooper blasters.
One based on a MGC Sterling , new design , qualifies as hero.
A second type of blasters was also used: ESB stunt styled, made of resin either reconditioned ESB stunt blaster or pulled from the same molds.
Well unless you have access to behind the scenes photographs or watch the battle of Endor in slow motion, pause and screen cap, you'll never see the ESB stunt styled blaster on screen. But they are there.
Continuity work was properly done concerning that particular point.
In ANH it is quite the opposite.
Before filming they made X n° of background helmets and X n° of Hero helmets. Hero helmets should have been used in All the close up scenes. But for many reasons that escapes us : poor job from the scrip supervisor, form Lucas himself, etc... backgroung helmets did end up being used in close up scenes, to the extend that you do notice the difference.
That is awesome for us collectors who prefer background helmets, their esthetics etc
People like Ben aka Gizmo, who posts in this thread, was able to identify the Set for Stun helmet thanks to that, but that's a poor job as far as continuity is concerned.
Also I do not understand the logic behind post stating that 99% of viewers won't notice the difference, 'it's just a movie, get over it' , "if I showed my grandma my bathtub she'd still call it a stormtrooper."
This is the RPF.
WE ARE the RPF : the place where the extracta bubbles were discovered , where all the oB1 parts were identified and sourced, where helmets have been screen matched, where we are all sucker for screen accuracy .
This isn't the FX trooper appreciation society.
We are not the 99% who don't notice. WE NOTICE.
So yes I had expectations. Having execptions doesn't mean you expect them to be met. I knew they wouldn't be met. It started back when the SE was released when they didn't bother and made ROTJ styled sand troopers who didn't match.
Thank god I loved the First Order.
And for the record I don't deny anyone the right to like the new design or consider yourself hardcore stormtrooper enthusiast . I don't know you , I'm not here to judge you. I could care less.
Hey Craigjohn, I've read you post on the Prop Den, you seem to be a genuinely good guy all around. Please read post #86 for my clarification concerning that particular point.
:thumbsup
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jkno
Legendary Member
Lichtbringer
Master Member
Correct, this is the RPF, but this is not the OT only appreciation subforum, it´s SW as a whole and part of the RPF.
Not your wishes are the base of what is part of the RPF, it´s what is seen in a SW movie. And R1 is a SW movie, so the new suits are completely fine.
If one or another likes them, or the ugly old ones, is a different question - they all are SW, they all are in a official movie .... so they all are golden. And it doesn´t matter if you see it the same way.
It´s also not the outdated crappy look appreciation society.
Davy Jones
Sr Member
I find this attitude annoying.
I'm with HDPE. They should have done a better job on the sculpts. I'm not so much a purist that I think they should have kept every lump and warp from the original ANH suits, but I wish the shapes and details were handled with care. They were not.
There is a difference between a fan whose eye has been trained to see what separates the beauty of the original sculpts from the clunky, repulsive fan made suits that have been around since the 90's, and a fan who has not trained their eyes to tell the difference.
There is an air of the FX suit about the new R1 sculpt and although many fans are used to seeing those horrible fan suits and like them, there are those of us who cringe every time we see one in an official publication.
Just because you can't see why us old sticklers don't care for the new version does not mean we don't have a very valid grievance and well aimed criticism.
I'm with HDPE. They should have done a better job on the sculpts. I'm not so much a purist that I think they should have kept every lump and warp from the original ANH suits, but I wish the shapes and details were handled with care. They were not.
There is a difference between a fan whose eye has been trained to see what separates the beauty of the original sculpts from the clunky, repulsive fan made suits that have been around since the 90's, and a fan who has not trained their eyes to tell the difference.
There is an air of the FX suit about the new R1 sculpt and although many fans are used to seeing those horrible fan suits and like them, there are those of us who cringe every time we see one in an official publication.
Just because you can't see why us old sticklers don't care for the new version does not mean we don't have a very valid grievance and well aimed criticism.
spacebob
Sr Member
What's so funny bout peace love and understanding....
Yes, this is the Replica Prop Forum, we post one page of pictures showing screen used armour, (so we can make Replica Props using this Forum) and have three pages of arguing, sorry opinions...
Yes we do all notice the differences
I wasn't keen on the ep 3 Vader but if someone wants to research and start a thread about their ideas for making one I only need to say it's not my cup of tea once, surely, because It's pointless to keep saying I don't like it over and over in a thread I'm not interested in.
But, I can get in the spirit if I try, this helmet looks nothing like an FX helmet. I mean at all.
The FX looks like no stormtrooper helmet with its odd squared off top and massively oversized features. The Rogue helmet has none of that. The armour has a much smaller breast plate than the FX, the forearms are nothing like an FX or OT for that matter.
Like I said before I'm not saying it's perfect I'm not definitely not saying it's better, I love the "real" stormtrooper a lot more, but if you are interested in thread with some hi def reference, here it is and I would like anyone who is interested to please keep posting new and hi def pictures as they become available Thank you.
Yes, this is the Replica Prop Forum, we post one page of pictures showing screen used armour, (so we can make Replica Props using this Forum) and have three pages of arguing, sorry opinions...
Yes we do all notice the differences
I wasn't keen on the ep 3 Vader but if someone wants to research and start a thread about their ideas for making one I only need to say it's not my cup of tea once, surely, because It's pointless to keep saying I don't like it over and over in a thread I'm not interested in.
But, I can get in the spirit if I try, this helmet looks nothing like an FX helmet. I mean at all.
The FX looks like no stormtrooper helmet with its odd squared off top and massively oversized features. The Rogue helmet has none of that. The armour has a much smaller breast plate than the FX, the forearms are nothing like an FX or OT for that matter.
Like I said before I'm not saying it's perfect I'm not definitely not saying it's better, I love the "real" stormtrooper a lot more, but if you are interested in thread with some hi def reference, here it is and I would like anyone who is interested to please keep posting new and hi def pictures as they become available
Thank you.
animator
Sr Member
I love the classic ANH Stormtrooper and hope to have a great quality replica helmet someday.
I think this new version is also fantastic! Watching the original film in 1977, much of what I thought was detail turns out to be stickers, decals or paint which is a bit disappointing for me. The Rogue Trooper helmet seems to be addressing some of that which I think is exciting and makes me want to see the film even more. I hope to have a great quality replica of the Rogue Trooper helmet someday, too.
I think this new version is also fantastic! Watching the original film in 1977, much of what I thought was detail turns out to be stickers, decals or paint which is a bit disappointing for me. The Rogue Trooper helmet seems to be addressing some of that which I think is exciting and makes me want to see the film even more. I hope to have a great quality replica of the Rogue Trooper helmet someday, too.
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