Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release)

Gary Weaver II said:

OK. Going to see it a second time tomorrow with the kids. I'll be curious to see if they pick up on the same problems I did.

Overall I loved it, but my nitpicks are similar to everyone elses.

I wondered why they didn't just hyperspace a Star Destroyer or two ahead of the Fleet. Now I totally get it when someone pointed out that Snoke and Hux were just toying with them. I'm cool with it now.

Canto Bight - Also, didn't think it was a great thing until someone pointed out that perhaps the kids on Kanto were the missing kids from Luke's temple. I would have sworn that kid force moved the broom into his hand at the end of the movie. Now I'm gonna have to watch closely tomorrow to be sure.

DJ - I was hoping that guy would come around, but he just sorta disappeared after the hyperspace impact didn't he? Still not sure on that. Phasma will be back for the third film

Snoke - Sure, he was sliced into a few pieces, but then again look at his face. Perhaps he's been sliced before and can reassemble himself?

Now, my biggest complaint and the one I haven't seen explained yet. WHY did Luke have a graflex on Crait? If he manifested himself to look younger (ie, just for Jedi hair color) - I'm only assuming it was to really get Kylo worked up. In that case, shouldn't he have had the Green ROTJ saber? Seeing that Graflex was the first big hint to me that something was totally weird about Luke being there in the first place. Of course, perhaps that's exactly why it was the graflex. Much like the underwater X-Wing it was a distraction to confuse everyone a bit.

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There were other hints Luke wasn't physically there. When he stepped or moved there was no red soil under his feet, it remained the white salt top layer. That and the saber were hints that he was a manifestation.

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MasterEdi said:

So how is everyone interpreting Rey’s Dark waterhole scene? When she asks to see her parents, and yet only sees herself... Thoughts?

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It mirrors the Dagobah cave scene, Rey only see's herself just like Luke saw his face in Vader's mask,

astroboy said:

Did anyone see where the escape pod came out of the Falcon?

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Seems like they have stuck by the official Haynes schematics



J

Marv said:

What caused Luke to kick the old bucket?

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He's just like his mother- he lost the will to live! lol

In our universe there in no air in space, and you can't hear noise in space.

In the star wars universe you hear noise in space, make of that what you will.

Bryancd said:

...
It mirrors the Dagobah cave scene, Rey only see's herself just like Luke saw his face in Vader's mask,

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If it indeed is a mirroring of that scene, then it IMO is bad writing. ESB had set up an internal conflict for Luke, which then was a dressed in the cave scene, and the cave scene had planted the huge reveal which later paid off and resonated throughout ROTJ.
IMO this was totally different to what was done in TLJ. It IMO felt more like Harry Potter than Star Wars.

After an ill advised journey to reddit:

I'd love to hear some fans complain about the impossibility of Jack's beans containing the energy to produce a beanstalk to the clouds, or parse the character of Cinderella (that prince would have spotted her for trailer trash in a fancy gown ten miles away--unrealistic, reeeeeeeeeee!).

There are some valid criticisms of TLJ but some people are nitpicking at Beautiful Mind levels of OCD. No story could hold up to it.

PantheraGem said:

I felt nothing, just like when Han died. Those weren't the characters I watched in the original trilogy. Don't give me a lecture on "people change". This isn't reality, and that's what hooked most of us in the first place.

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If this is how you're approaching cinema, are you actually surprised that you're disappointed!?

Some form of verisimilitude in any form of storytelling is what allows us to live in the suspension of disbelief in the first place. If you throw that out the window, and demand that characters never change, or that they dont abide by any rules in or out of universe, why are you interested in story telling/cinema/films full stop?

I see a lot of people mentioning how did Snoke not see what was coming with the lightsaber. Pay attention to every shot in that scene.

Snoke’s eyes are closed, he’s concentrating on Kylos thoughts. What he’s describing about “ turning the lightsaber, ready to destroy your greatest foe” that all applies to the “from a certain point of view” perspective. Everything he was describing and seeing was also happening with Kylos saber toward Rey, and being full of himself, Snoke didn’t see the perception trick going on in Kylos mind.

And a quick note about Luke’s Force projection. Doing it the way he did allowed him to be “Lule Skywalker, the Legend”.if he had actually got struck down there, the story would spread that Luke is dead, hope is lost. Instead he got to be the unrealistic vision everyone had of him, being indestructible, and inspire millions. He knew that was the only way he could be what the galaxy needed.

Fawbish said:

...
why are you interested in story telling/cinema/films full stop?

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Escapism.

DaddyfromNaboo said:

Escapism.

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Which is completely valid way of enjoying film - except that there are very, very, very few stories in any medium that don't follow an internal logic. Escapism should not directly translate to "it should just be this way just because" - IMO.

I also wasn't equating realism/realistic stories with internal logic.

You're being told a story, right? So if something happens, that is what happened. It isn't what could have, or should, or maybe would - it is (unless the film is then showing you/telling you there is an unreliable narrator/offering ambiguity etc.

I had visions, even watching the film, of how unbelievably epic it would have been for us to have heard a single screaming of an X-Wing fighter just as all hope is lost, and Luke arrives to kick some ass. And yet, what we got was just as good as what I'd imagined because that is what happened in the film, and I judged it on that basis - not what it could have been. You can make adjustments to your own expectations and experiences all the time, which people seem to forget. Having Luke's final redemption for losing his faith be an unprecedented (not plot hole) and thoroughly powerful use of the force following the last lesson of his master was excellent storytelling, I think. Making the decision to have him emotionally fight rather than physically made a lot of sense. Things that would not make sense if we simply ignored the progression of character and stuck to "what is known".

Here is what I don’t get... the people online saying this may be the best Star Wars ever. Huh? Did we see the same film?
I spoke with two of my closest friends who are bigger Star Wars fans than myself. First one hated it. Second one said either it is a masterpiece or the biggest piece of crap ever. By last night he was very much on the piece of crap side.
So are the people who loved it the same ones that became fans during the prequels? Or the ones that became fans once the Disney era started? Cause so far it seems the real fans (the ones who get it) are the ones that are going WTF. Truth is my wife is the casual fan. She basically watched them when she met me. She liked TFA and TLJ. But didn’t like Rogue One. I am coming to a conclusion that is because Rogue One fits better with the OT than TFA and TLJ. These new ones are just there to kill off the old heroes so we now have new ones that we are supposed to care about. Which I certainly don’t. Honestly I feel completed duped by that last trailer. And it has left a prettty sour taste in my mouth.
I will give Disney credit. They know how to put a trailer together to make people want to see their films.

I loved it (mainly) and I was born in '75. I like to think of myself as a "real fan." What with the lifetime of obsession and all.

Some SW I like, some I don't. TLJ ranks maybe 5th for me of the 9 films, but I still really enjoyed it, a lot.

IMO Rey saw herself in the ice mirror because she ALREADY knew who her parents were. Maybe she was also deluding herself about her parents because who wants to believe they were sold for drinking money?

As far as the hyperdrive drive crash method. That would typically not work in ship battles because a normal ship would just have to slightly move to be out of the path of any long range attack. For short range I think they could be fired upon. In this case, Snoke's ship is huge and can't move and ALL the focus was on the transport ships. They messed up and gave the cruiser the time it needed to turn and jump.

cayman shen said:

I loved it (mainly) and I was born in '75. I like to think of myself as a "real fan." What with the lifetime of obsession and all.

Some SW I like, some I don't. TLJ ranks maybe 5th for me of the 9 films, but I still really enjoyed it, a lot.

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I was also born in 75. I also have had that lifetime of obsession. Long before “everyone” became a fan. Long before there were females being used in every commercial to make Star Wars “cool for everyone” as opppsed to geeky. (At least that is my perception). I think this film is dividing the Star Wars fan base pretty evenly. The fact that my one friend who I consider the absolute fan didn’t like it speaks volumes to me.
While I expect nothing but praise from Kevin Smith, I have yet to see him say anything other than the fact he was going to see it a second time with Jason Mewes. I am curious to hear his opinion as well.

Real fan, eh?

Aah, the good old "no true scotsman" fallacy:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman?wprov=sfla1

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I really enjoyed the film and after seeing it I'm not surprised at all with their decision to hand Rian the keys to his own trilogy. I can't wait to see where it goes.

Some of you folks need to take a step outside and have a fresh breath of air.. go back and watch it again without bias and expectations. I can't imagine being so upset over a film!

Mr Mold Maker said:

I really enjoyed the film and after seeing it I'm not surprised at all with their decision to hand Rian the keys to his own trilogy. I can't wait to see where it goes.

Some of you folks need to take a step outside and have a fresh breath of air.. go back and watch it again without bias and expectations. I can't imagine being so upset over a film!

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I actually went into this one without bias and expectation. I avoided almost all of the pre-hype.

And I saw so many review headlines that I was actually excited.

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cayman shen said:

......(mainly) and I was born in '75. I like to think of myself as a "real fan." What with the lifetime of obsession and all.

Some SW I like, some I don't. TLJ ranks maybe ​7th for me of the 9 films, but I still really enjoyed it............

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I edited your post so I can agree 100%

Random notes:

First half felt like Star Wars by-the-numbers: small rebel ships vs. big Imperial ships/big guns/weak spot. It was paced like a miniseries than a movie so it kinda meandered without anything particularly memorable happening.

Then, starting with the Rey/Ren/Snoke confrontation, the movie takes off completely over the top.

I'm crushing hard on Veronica Ngo, who plays the bomber pilot that dies in the beginning. I'm looking up her other movies.

Laura Dern - I hated her character. I hated her character design. I hated her performance choices. What's with the inappropriate haute couture gown and purple hair? (reminded me of Alex's mom in A Clockwork Orange). She had no command presence - zero. Someone taking over command at this point I should expect to at least address the remaining troops to orient and instill morale. Instead she gives a freaking eulogy then keeps everyone in the dark? She has no idea how to handle/address/utilize someone like Po. What's with the catty, "Commander? Oh yes, you were demoted?" She acts like "I'm here and nobody get in my way because I'm more important than y'all." And it's not just because she's a woman in charge because Leia has a great deal of command presence. Even when Leia has to reprimand Po it's constructive. Leia doesn't just dress him down and walk away dropping the mike. I was really worried Leia would be the one to remain on the ship and pass the torch to Holdo/Dern. *whew*

Who is the Rebel officer with the comically huge proboscis? (looks kinda like female Mr. Bean). I'm certain I've seen her in older films. Her performance was just fine but she was a little too eccentric-looking to the point of distraction. I kept asking why they kept filming her from the side so as to accentuate her profile. She was distracting is all.

At first I didn't like Rose much - especially because she was introduced as a crying rebel who, I thought, was blubbering in fear. I really warmed up to her by the end, though. I like Rose.

Of course the hyperspace kamikaze scene was 11/10. It was perfect and literally awesome in every way. I've seen the film twice and each time the silence was punctuated with people gasping in complete awe.

The kid at the very end staring into space was just fine but him flashing the rebel ring was a little too much on-the-nose.

Ren's fighting stance is a striking silhouette. Makes him look like a raven. I love it.

With this movie Ren has become the most complex and interestingly layered Star Wars character to date - even more so than Vader. And his bond with Rey is just as compelling.

Mark Hamil seems a very external actor. He often rushes out his dialogue until he's out of breath. I wish he was little more internal for this part, but he's still very effective in this film and looks amazing. His confrontation with Ren was great. I was certain he'd go out Obi-Wan style. His final vision of Tatooine's twin suns chokes me up.

karmajay said:

IMO Rey saw herself in the ice mirror because she ALREADY knew who her parents were. Maybe she was also deluding herself about her parents because who wants to believe they were sold for drinking money?

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I saw this scene as Rey raised herself, she was her own parents because she had been on her own for most all of her life and raised herself to who she is as an adult, so it was more symbolic than literal.