Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release)

Bryancd said:

Snoke was just Snoke, he wasn’t a Sith. We may learn more about him in IX but his backstory is really not important to the story.

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Unless, as implied by the Visual Dictionary (very implied, admittedly, at a John Nash level of reading between the lines), Snoke was the first Jedi and founder of the order, returning to the Galaxy to end what he started.

Imagine if we found that out during TLJ. You wouldn't need to rewrite the story or anything, and it would add so much depth to the themes of regret and failure, as well as to Luke's motivation to exile himself. First Jedi vs Last Jedi! Both wanting to end the order, both battling for Kylo's soul.

It could have been great.

Good article https://filmcrithulk.blog/2017/12/1...last-jedis-beautiful-refocusing-of-star-wars/

Did anyone else find it odd that suddenly Rey had an intimate understanding of what went down in the Emperor's throne room between Luke and Vader? Where would she have learned this?

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Can you expand on this I don't recall what you are alluding to. Thanks!

EDIT: Saw it for the 2nd time today and still loved it overall.

AnubisGuard said:

Unless, as implied by the Visual Dictionary (very implied, admittedly, at a John Nash level of reading between the lines), Snoke was the first Jedi and founder of the order, returning to the Galaxy to end what he started.

Imagine if we found that out during TLJ. You wouldn't need to rewrite the story or anything, and it would add so much depth to the themes of regret and failure, as well as to Luke's motivation to exile himself. First Jedi vs Last Jedi! Both wanting to end the order, both battling for Kylo's soul.

It could have been great.

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Thats it right there, could've been so awesome.

Rey mentioned to Luke after their fight that she could turn Kylo, like Luke sensed the conflict in Vader and helped turn him back, something that I would imagine not many knew about.

Kylash said:

Did anyone else find it odd that suddenly Rey had an intimate understanding of what went down in the Emperor's throne room between Luke and Vader? Where would she have learned this?

It was also interesting to hear Luke mention the rise of Sidious, by name, which must have been in his book or archives somewhere.

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We didn't see every moment of every day she spent on Ach-to so she may have learned it from Luke but it is a challenge to try and figure that out considering the film picks up right when TFA left off. She did have some meta knowledge of about Luke, in TFA, though, so...
The tossing the saber was gold and very meta considering how much fans built that moment up over the last 2 years.

Just got back from seeing it. My buddy that went with me was a lot harsher on it than I was. I thought it was good, but it's definitely not as great as I'd hoped it would be. However, the people who are saying it's worse than the prequels seriously need to get their mental health checked....no SW movie ever again will be as bad as TPM or AOTC. Period.

My biggest problems were some of the forced humor(Poe's call to Hux went on far longer than it should have), the crazy visual of Leia floating in space, shirtless Kylo felt weird, not getting any backstory on Snoke and having him killed off way too easily was a major disappointment, finding out Rey's parents were nobodies who sold her for drinking money(seriously, WTF), the whole side plot with Finn and Rose on the casino planet really didn't add much to the story and just felt like filler, Chewbacca getting hardly anything to do, Phasma also with hardly anything to do even though we were promised a lot more from her in this movie, the lack of a real lightsaber duel between Kylo and Luke where Kylo could have destroyed him the way Vader did Obi-Wan and the decision to have Luke fade off into oblivion on the island instead(also the fact that I'm assuming we won't see Luke at all in Ep. 9 unless it's as a Force Ghost) and the final shot of the movie being the little kid from the stables when you had a much better shot of everyone to end the movie just a minute earlier.

So, clearly there were a lot of things I had issues with, but I did really like the opening space battle, all of the scenes with Rey and Luke, Yoda showing up even though he looked quite odd(how could he look better in the prequels than he does in this movie?), the confrontation between Kylo and Rey vs. Snoke's guards, Luke sneaking onto the Falcon and Leia's hologram being brought back was an amazing moment, the final battle on the salt planet was epic and the fact that the Porgs were used perfectly(in other words, not like Ewoks).

I'll need to see it again in order to really take everything in and figure out where I place it in the overall saga rankings. I don't think anything will ever unseat ESB from #1 and ANH from #2 for me, but after than it gets a bit muddy. I'll definitely rank this ahead of all 3 of the prequels, but don't know if I like it more than ROTJ, Force Awakens or even Rogue One. The last hour of Rogue One is the most fun I've had with Star Wars since ESB, but unfortunately the hour that comes before that is pretty underwhelming. I'd hoped this movie would be a solid #3 behind my all-time favorites, but all the issues outlined above will probably keep me from elevating it to that level.

Oh, and where the hell was the Solo trailer, Disney? How can a movie be 5 months away and not even a second of footage shown? That's a big time marketing fail. :facepalm

Bryancd said:

It's not important to the immediate journey these characters are taking. Yes, it's interesting to wonder, it very well may be explored, but certainly wasn't a required story element for this film for TFA.

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Yes it is important, he literally initiated the creation of Kylo. Which is now the primary focus of this trilogy, the conflict within him and between him and Rey.

Kylash said:

Rey mentioned to Luke after their fight that she could turn Kylo, like Luke sensed the conflict in Vader and helped turn him back, something that I would imagine not many knew about.

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Ah ok, IMO that is one of the legends that came out of RotJ. Luke is talked up as a hero and that is one of the stories about him that everyone knows.

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mattycsi said:

Yes it is important, he literally initiated the creation of Kylo. Which is now the primary focus of this trilogy, the conflict within him and between him and Rey.

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It isn't important to the immediate happenings of the story though. maybe as FANS it is important but the story does not need it.

I think the problem here, is that its the 2nd in a trilogy.. Maybe it should have been the first in this trilogy. I think I could except the flaws if this was the first building episode.

karmajay said:

It isn't important to the immediate happenings of the story though. maybe as FANS it is important but the story does not need it.

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By that logic, Vader revealing that he is Luke's father is not important to the story, as all we need to know is that Luke escapes Bespin and re unites with the rebellion!

Snoke is literally the ignition of this trilogy, he created the First Order, without whom, there is no story. He also created Kylo, one of the main players within the story. He needs background.
Imagine reading a book where you were given no information as to the how, why and who of the main antagonist, it wouldn't be a particularly interesting read.

mattycsi said:

By that logic, Vader revealing that he is Luke's father is not important to the story, as all we need to know is that Luke escapes Bespin and re unites with the rebellion!

Snoke is literally the ignition of this trilogy, he created the First Order, without whom, there is no story. He also created Kylo, one of the main players within the story. He needs background.
Imagine reading a book where you were given no information as to the how, why and who of the main antagonist, it wouldn't be a particularly interesting read.

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Maybe not Vadar (just cause he is a Skywalker), but Palpatine or General Tarkin. There was no slight backstory till ROTJ.. Of course Palpatine didnt die in the second episode.. That would have sucked

mattycsi said:

By that logic, Vader revealing that he is Luke's father is not important to the story, as all we need to know is that Luke escapes Bespin and re unites with the rebellion!

Snoke is literally the ignition of this trilogy, he created the First Order, without whom, there is no story. He also created Kylo, one of the main players within the story. He needs background.
Imagine reading a book where you were given no information as to the how, why and who of the main antagonist, it wouldn't be a particularly interesting read.

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Vader being Luke's father is critical to the story being told. How Snoke was able to pollute Ben isn't material, what matters is that he did it and we are told it happened. How it happened is less meaningful for the story on screen we just saw. You are conflating a want and a need.

CessnaDriver said:

“Star Wars” Burn Out? “Last Jedi” Thursday Night Box Office Falls Short of “Force Awakens” by $12 Million

http://www.showbiz411.com/2017/12/1...s-by-12-million/comment-page-1#comment-321907


I'm sure it will make bank but interesting.

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Entirely anticipated and box office is tracking right at early estimates.

OK, so they built the whole PT around how Palpatine created the Empire. But we can't expect a little background on the main antagonist of this new trilogy?

The point about Vader is that, is the family connection required to the story? Which is essentially the rebellion against the empire. No, but it makes the story interesting and gives gravitas. Which we are now lacking in this trilogy due to pooch being mounted over the use of Snoke's character.

You know what else I can't stand? This whole thing where they pick this movie up where the last one left off.

It really limits where they can go with the story and characters.

The time between ANH and ESB was crucial for allowing each story to breath.


Whereas yesterday, Finn needed someone to pilot a tie fighter because he wasn't a pilot but today he's flying a speeder across the desert

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You know, it's entirely ok to be a fan of something like Star Wars and love it unconditionally. I love all 9 films, some more than others, but I love them unapologetically. That's my fandom, I enjoy discussing them in a critical manner but at the end of the day, every time I sit in that theater and here that music I'm 9 years old again and I smile and enjoy the ride.

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mattycsi said:

OK, so they built the whole PT around how Palpatine created the Empire. But we can't expect a little background on the main antagonist of this new trilogy?

The point about Vader is that, is the family connection required to the story? Which is essentially the rebellion against the empire. No, but it makes the story interesting and gives gravitas. Which we are now lacking in this trilogy due to pooch being mounted over the use of Snoke's character.

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The OT was entirely about Luke's journey not the Rebellion vs. the Empire, that was simply trappings and context to tell the story. This story didn't require the minutae of Ben's fall just like the OT didn't need a lot of exposition on Vaders fall. We were told he fell by Ben, moving on.

Just watched this today, it was ok. Felt it had too many elements that were "prequel" in it's tone and a few plot developments seemed to go nowhere. An example is the entire story with Finn and Rose that had no payoff at all except to see Phasma die again I guess.

Hmm... taking the kid in a few hours. I'm sure he'll enjoy it but it sure is starting to sound like a turd to me.:unsure

Exactly, we were told by Ben. What have we been told by anyone about Snoke? Nothing. This trilogy looks, at the moment, to be gearing up to be the rise of Rey and the turn or fall of Kylo. Now, we got some info on Rey, re her parents, which I actually liked. But Kylo's backstory is severely lacking due to the treatment of Snoke. All we know is that he is a Solo/Skywalker and went bad. How, why?

mattycsi said:

Exactly, we were told by Ben. What have we been told by anyone about Snoke? Nothing. This trilogy looks, at the moment, to be gearing up to be the rise of Rey and the turn or fall of Kylo. Now, we got some info on Rey, re her parents, which I actually liked. But Kylo's backstory is severely lacking due to the treatment of Snoke. All we know is that he is a Solo/Skywalker and went bad. How, why?

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I bet we will get more of this in 9 ESPECIALLY since JJ is back at the helm and he started these questions up.