Screen Used Scout Lid Research

spacebob

Sr Member
Hi there.

This thread is going to be dedicated to the finer points of trimming Biker Scout helmets :)

First of all her is a concept pic, its going to be important later.

webbs_02.jpg


A lot of people are going to be trimming RS lids and only have the pencil lines to go by, well that’s fine and I’ve seen some lovely jobs done by following those lines but they apparently vary from helmet to helmet according to the peeps on Pathfinders.

I have no answers or measurements, at all at this point and hopefully people with nicely put together lids will chime in whether the trimmed them themselves (Help me Kroenen77 ) or whether they were trimmed by the good people at RS.

I’m going to get the ball rolling with some screengrab pics to show the massive variances between some production helmets, and hopefully challenge what you thought you knew about “what” is the perfect shape.

The main scouts in Jedi are...

The scout that Han creeps up on, but steps on branch.

The one that goes for help (same scene).

The same one again that Luke throws from bike, to steal bike.

The next one that Luke brakes hard to undertake, chase and eventually “fight”.

The one that Leia shoots as he runs, after nearly getting caught by another scout (who I couldn’t find a front on pic of).

The one that Han taps on shoulder and tricks into being captured.

I’m going to call all these the stunt helmet and there’s actually two as far as I can see.

Surely the all look like this, yes...

websu90.jpg


Or this, right?

webbs99.jpg


Nice visor shape we all know, wider at the top than the bottom, nice and classic...
 
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Ok here we go...

The main scouts in Jedi are again...

The scout that Han creeps up on, but steps on branch.

webscreenbs5.jpg


The one that goes for help (same scene).

scrwebeenbs38.jpg


The same one again that Luke throws from bike, to steal bike.

webscreenbs14.jpg


The next one that Luke brakes hard to undertake, chase and eventually “fight”.

webscreenbs14-_1.jpg


The one that Leia shoots as he runs, after nearly getting caught by another scout (who I couldn’t find a front on pic of).

webbs00.jpg


The one that Han taps on shoulder and tricks into being captured.

webscreen-grab09.jpg


I’m going to call all these the stunt helmets and there’s actually two as far as I can see.

All visors wider at the bottom than the top.
Every one of the main ones that you can remember from 1983.
 
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Now there is this closeup of the one that Luke “fights” and its this shot punched in.

webbs87.jpg


Two helmets, same trooper. I'm going to call these close up helmets and you hardly ever see them in main shots really but we think they're everywhere.

I mean the stunt looks like a Rubies right?

I think the stunt is how it was supposed to look because it's like the concept pic (see told you it would be important later).

That or, because it's the stunt they widened it for clearer vision.
 
What I would like to determine is how to trim a kit to make it like the stunt and how to trim a kit to make it like the closeup.

If we can work this out then the world is our lobster, we can make anything twixt the two :)
 
I built mine like the hero from "Corporal Oberk".Thats the scout commander who catches princess leia in ROTJ.It has the same glossy paintjob and weathering.

31984738of.jpg


31984748wi.jpg


This helmet has a shorter vent on the back..you can see here and 8 vents on the right side.

31984761xq.jpg


31984769kj.jpg
 
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That's great, your pics make me realise this is the helmet thats on Star Wars Helmets website that has been on display at exhibits and such.

He seems to be the most prominent screen example of the closeup trooper, he's on merch and promo stuff too inc the backing card from 83.
Good stuff :)

Edit: Why doesn't Jezs tag work?

Also just realised that's where you got pic from :)
 
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so are you saying there was only 2 completed scout suits? or just only 2 stunt helmets made for the movie?
 
Looking at pics again I'm seeing 3 different helmets with the "stunt" characteristics.

What I am definitely saying is, if we go by what gets most screen time for main characters, the stunt configuration is way more prominent.

We get so used to looking at online pics we think that they all look like closeup helmets, they don't :)

I have seen photos of the inside of a helmet with #41 or something similar.
I wonder if there's a good pic of the hangar bay somewhere?
 
The costumes book says that there were 6 of these made.

Well no amount of trimming is going to make them look like that as it's a completely different material, and visor looks to be just one piece as well.

It's a shame because I'd like to trim mine so it has a closeup look but not skinny or pinched.
 
Can I use your pics from efx thread for comparisons on here please Dan? @3DImpact

Also I'd like to ask exactly how far from the helmet you took pics so I can ask Kroenen77 (please) if he could take straight on pics at same distance to do a comparison between in house, and kit built lids as both of yours are absolutely fantastic examples.

I know Im asking alot but I'd appreciate some measurements later too if possible :)
 
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Can I use your pics from efx thread for comparisons on here please Dan? @3DImpact

Also I'd like to ask exactly how far from the helmet you took pics so I can ask @Kroenen77 (please) if he could take straight on pics at same distance to do a comparison between in house, and kit built lids as both of yours are absolutely fantastic examples.

I know Im asking alot but I'd appreciate some measurements later too if possible :)

No worries - this is a great thread and there's going to be a lot of very good and useful information in it.

Here are the plan view images of my RS helmet, made by RS, as posted in the EFX thread:

7D2_6694_small.jpg7D2_6707_small.jpg7D2_6702_small.jpg7D2_6706_small.jpg

The images were taken from a distance of about 5.18 m (17 feet) and the image metadata says the focal length setting at the time was 170mm.

Here's the first image annotated with measured widths (interior edges, directly from the helmet with a ruler and digital caliper):

7D2_6694_small_annotated.jpg

I took the measurements at what appear to be the two best-reproducible points - the bottom cheek points (149 mm) and the molded ear line (159 mm). The width across the inner edges of the top brow line are a bit harder to define because it depends on where you choose the break in the curvature, but the width there is about 153 mm. The corresponding measurements on the RS kit helmet that I built myself, shown in my Saw Gerrera Partisan WIP thread, are 154 mm, 166mm, and 160 mm, respectively. I used RS's suggested trim lines when I built that one.

And, adding to the collection of documentation, here is one of my photos of the helmet currently on display with the Power of Costume traveling exhibition (this from the Denver showing):

5D3_1694_small.jpg

The view angle is from a little below, given the height of the display. I obviously couldn't get actual measurements, but based on known dimensions of various decal markings and greeblies you can do some measuring from the image. I get corresponding measurements of something like 139 mm, 164 mm, and 160 mm, respectively. I don't remember the distance from the helmet at the time (probably ~3 m or so); the image metadata says the effective focal length was 105mm.

Dan
 
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Thanks for the info Dan,

Looks like I already used your pic higher in the thread, Its my favorite scout pic so I have you to thank :)

Will any pics taken at the same distance be comparable or does focal length make a big difference?
 
Thanks for the info Dan,

Looks like I already used your pic higher in the thread, Its my favorite scout pic so I have you to thank :)

Will any pics taken at the same distance be comparable or does focal length make a big difference?

As long as the subject is centered the focal length shouldn't matter as much as the distance from the subject - the farther the better in terms of presenting as distortion-free a view as possible. Of course, with shorter focal lengths and greater distances the subject gets pretty small in the image, so it's nice to zoom or use a longer focal length just to keep the subject larger in the image. For situations like this one where measuring dimensions from images is the main purpose I always try to use a long telephoto and set the subject pretty far away. A rule of thumb similar to that used when making auto focus microadjustments is to place the subject at a distance at least 25x or more the focal length of the lens. So, if you're shooting a 105mm lens, place the subject at least 2.6 m away...

I took hundreds of photos at the Power of Costume exhibit and plan to get to it again at some point to take a bunch more. Fantastic exhibit!

Dan
 
The stunt helmet photo from the book is the same helmet thats in one of your screenshots where the scout has his head turned looking back.

Keith
 
My very near shots in the EFX thread where made from ca.35cm distance to the camera.That is the nearest possible position to have the complete face on the pic with my camera.

Red line on 3D impacts helmet is 17.0 cm on mine.The green line is impossible to see with a ruler...the snout comes out too much.:lol

Here a complete view of mine:

31992317mg.jpg


31992568dr.jpg
 
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I have to say, it looks like the visor is either coated with resin inside or fiberglass.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
Fantastic so far guys this is all great stuff :)

I've been trying to think of simpler way to translate this info into checking and comparing trimlines and have come up with this.

Could I bother you both one more time as yours both seem different enough for a great comparison.

webmp69.jpg


Could I have measurements from these points to their corresponding points on the other side, let's call them A, and B.



webwb276.jpg


And these points to their corresponding points on the other side, let's call them D, and E.



Then I can just halve the numbers and use to check pencil marks :)

(This is my fiberglass inaccurate scout I've had for years just for demonstration purposes.)

Edit: I'm such an idiot, what happened to C, I'm 47 and still haven't mastered my ABC's
 
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