And thats why Yoda shows up and points out Luke’s folly and inspires him to make a stand against evil knowing it would end in his demise but comforted that Rey is still out there.
Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release)
- Thread starter dbuck
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And thats why Yoda shows up and points out Luke’s folly and inspires him to make a stand against evil knowing it would end in his demise but comforted that Rey is still out there.
jlee562
Sr Member
I think that guy got carried away with what the film is trying to say about Luke's confrontation with the First Order. He's got the line about "the rebellion is reborn today" (that's probably not verbatim), I don't think Luke believes that his ending the Jedi order is what will resolve the cycle of violence, because that line seems to indicate that he knows there's violence ahead. I don't think Luke is being a pacifist here per se.
Moreover, since Luke says he's NOT the last Jedi in the end, isn't his point more about ending the Jedi Order rather than just ending the Jedi? Luke mentions the Jedi religion, which is one of the few places in canon where the Order is referenced as such. I found this analogous to folks who might believe in God, but not call themselves a member of the Church.
DarthLee
Sr Member
The future of a galaxy far, far away won’t be affected by the dismal numbers garnered in China over Star Wars: The Last Jedi’s opening weekend. If anything, the numbers just prove, once again, that China isn’t that into Star Wars.
As reported by CNN on Monday, Star Wars: The Last Jedi opened to an estimated $28.7 million in China over the weekend, falling astonishingly far behind its predecessor, Star Wars: The Force Awakens, which opened in China at $52 million. Even Rogue One: A Star Wars Story, the first Star Wars film without any connection to a trilogy, beat out The Last Jedi at $30 million on its opening weekend in 2016
I just read this,
I thought it would have done better than that in China
As reported by CNN on Monday, Star Wars: The Last Jedi opened to an estimated $28.7 million in China over the weekend, falling astonishingly far behind its predecessor, Star Wars: The Force Awakens, which opened in China at $52 million. Even Rogue One: A Star Wars Story, the first Star Wars film without any connection to a trilogy, beat out The Last Jedi at $30 million on its opening weekend in 2016
I just read this,
I thought it would have done better than that in China
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I posted that three pages ago, duh.
Rogue One potentially could have had a bigger open then TFA with two well known Asian actors but nope. Culturally the Chinese don’t have a strong connection to the franchise, at least not yet.
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Ooh, that's true - didn't think of that actually - good point...
DarthLee
Sr Member
I posted that three pages ago, duh.
I apologize Bryan, I usually pay close attention and study, analyse and save your post in a separate folder, to go back for reference material, for myself and future generations. I must have missed that one.:lol
This is a theme I've never quite understood in the films or EU - did the Jedi and/or Jedi Order ever really "jockey for power" - or were they there to push back on evil?
DarthLee
Sr Member
I think both. They were the peoples only answer to the Dark side. They were in a position of power, created by the people to push back on evil. And by doing that, they jockeyed for more power to make decisions needed to win. Almost like Palpatine jockeyed for power, but only to do good.
MrSouthpaw
Sr Member
Well, that's awfully convenient that you get to argue two contradictory points. First a force user needs to hear about an ability, like you argued for Rey. Now they can just do whatever with no training...they don't even have to hear about the force.
Why does Rey need to hear about force abilities,but broom-kid does not?
You still need to explain how Rey never tried to use the force when she was younger and heard about Luke Skywalker. A point I made that you completely avoided in 5 paragraphs of writing. If you can't answer it, then your argument is debunked.
That IS the first time Luke does anything with the force. And it took TRAINING and GUIDANCE from OWK. And I don't see a similarity in Anakin involuntarily using a PASSIVE ability like force sight and someone actively and voluntarily using the force to pull a broom. Anakin did not know he had the force and never used an active ability until trained. And his daddy WAS THE FORCE ITSELF.
During the trench-run Luke didn't "just do it". He was going to ignore the force and use the targeting computer. OWK told to reach out with his feeling, not just "use the force". And the training-remote WAS the training for that. To show the audience (it is a movie) Luke could reach out with the force before actually seeing him do it in the trench run. It was a great film moment to see Luke put away the targeting computer and listen to OWK. You don't seem to remember it that way.
Story-wise Yoda was so powerful to teach Luke that the Force is beyond the physical. Otherwise, there can be other powerful force users. They're all over the PT.
You did mention natural talent, but you did not say natural talent can be developed. You said it allowed a Rey to instantly use an ability "without years of training". Developing talent and instantly doing something are two different things. And it's still not "REAL WORLD" for someone to hear about an ability and instantly be able to use it.
DarthLee
Sr Member
@MrSouthpaw
We will just go with, she is the most advanced force user Jedi, non-Jedi, we have seen thus so far.
And at this rate, she will be a Master, non-Master by IX.
Because what we have been explained, is, its not about Rey, its about the Force, and it can do what ever it wants with a sentient body. Just like possession. Except i hope her head doesnt spin around and puke green pea soup.
We will just go with, she is the most advanced force user Jedi, non-Jedi, we have seen thus so far.
And at this rate, she will be a Master, non-Master by IX.
Because what we have been explained, is, its not about Rey, its about the Force, and it can do what ever it wants with a sentient body. Just like possession. Except i hope her head doesnt spin around and puke green pea soup.
Greenie
Sr Member
Kill Han because Harrison Ford was a one shot deal and it was probably a condition. Kill Luke because Rian Johnson doesn't understand the character but wanted that cinematic moment for himself. And fan opinion is split on both.
They missed at least two chances to kill Leia with minimal re-editing but now Carrie is gone we all know she cannot be in IX. I really hope that JJ can create some thoughtful and respectful exposition for Leia's absense without killing her. Then our Princess can live forever!
The movie will probably open with all our characters in front of a holo Leia at some sort of memorial service... then we pan over and Kylo / Ben is there - and he's holding Rey's hand or something... Also: smoke monsters and polar bears
I'll see myself out.
I'll see myself out.
MrSouthpaw
Sr Member
Then broom-kid must be a force-god because he never even heard of the thing and can use it no problem......
Broom-Kid is going to become the most powerful force user ever. And when he's an old man he'll invent force-time-travel and come back and be Snoke.
It'll be called Star Wars: The First Looper.
DarthLee
Sr Member
Then broom-kid must be a force-god because he never even heard of the thing and can use it no problem......
Broom-Kid is going to become the most powerful force user ever. And when he's an old man he'll invent force-time-travel and come back and be Snoke.
It'll be called Star Wars: The First Looper.
No, but I think Rose did look at him...so thats where he got his knowledge of the Force, from a glancing smile.
Ok none of that happened..lol
Poor kid was probably thinking.. man, if I had the Force , I wouldnt have to sweep this floor, let me just pull this broom and get to work.
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Ok... Didn't mean to come across as adversarial or argumentive. I evidently wasn't clear or concise in what I was trying to say.
These are my thoughts only & the way I'm interpreting things. That's all. Just trying to explain my position.
I don't think Rey ever tried any Force 'tricks' as a child, because she had no idea if the Force or even Luke were real. They were just myths & stories. She definitely has no idea she had any ability in it. Solo then tells her, all that crap you've heard about, it's real. Her mind is opened. They go to Maz's castle & she's inexplicably called by the Force itself to Anakin's saber. In her force-induced vision, she's told, by Obi-Wan no less, the EXACT same thing he told Luke after his success with the remote..."You've taken your first step..." Her eyes are opened & she has EXPERIENCED that the Force is real. In her next three times of extreme stress, she tests the waters a bit. First, she's able to resist Kylo, then she tries the mind trick & fails, tries again & succeeds, then is able to defeat a wounded Kylo Ren, only after giving into the Force.
It is a quicker time frame than what we saw with Luke, but she's not Luke. Some may disagree, but s I've said in the past, the Force itself is doing something different now, as opposed to what we saw in the past. It's neither right nor wrong, just different.
To be fair, I don't know if the broom boy even knows what he can do is special. I mean, we didn't see him use it when he was being abused, only when he was alone, & only to pick up a broom a few inches away. My point about Anakin was that he didn't know he was special either. He just thought he was good at pod racing.
To illustrate my point about talent Vs training, around here, all little kids start off playing tee ball abut age 4. We went the first day, & my son, who had never touched a bat, was picking up the ball, throwing it in the air, & tagging it pretty good. I am not a sports guy in ANY sense of the word, so no big deal to me. One of the coaches comes over & starts tossing the ball to him & he's hitting it consistently. The coach comes over & tells me to not let him play tee ball. He said if he could hit a live pitch, that was good & a year of hitting from a tee would hurt that. He offered to work with him cause he thought he showed a lot of potential, & the coach thought he could help develop into a great player. Didn't really matter, cause after a couple of seasons, he lost all interest. Nothing special about the boy, but he had a natural ability to do something a lot of the other kids couldn't, but there is no telling what he could've done if he'd gotten real training & continued with it.
DarthLee
Sr Member
Im starting to see the Force abilities, the same way I see someone born with the ability to sing. Your not taught to sing. Sure, you can sing stronger with practice, but the tone and ability to sing a note is not something you can learn. Growing up in a music family. I never had to learn how to sing. You either knew how to sing or didnt. Hence tone deaf, Force deaf
Like hearing music or a song for the first time and you just start singing along. No one taught you how to sing it.
What I think @Usagi Pilgram ment, might be something im considering. You dont learn to use the force. you only learn to master the force.
Like hearing music or a song for the first time and you just start singing along. No one taught you how to sing it.
What I think @Usagi Pilgram ment, might be something im considering. You dont learn to use the force. you only learn to master the force.
Thanks. A much better way of saying it.
What was Chirrut Imwe's relationship with the force - can't recall...?
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