If the 40th anniversary panel at Celebration comes and goes without mention of a new release, then I'll accept that it's not happening this year. What little thirdhand information there is in the FuriousFanboys & Digital Bits articles doesn't actually rule out a new release. That seems to be an inference on the part of Bill Hunt.

As for Pablo's twitter post, let's not forget that J.J. flat out lied to protect the Khan surprise in Trek. Hidalgo's comment is just ambiguous enough to make me think that he'll pull an Obi-Wan-esque, "Certain point of View" defense when the time comes. Whatever happens, he really needs to reflect on how he engages with fans. His initial post is borderline trolling and subsequent posts reveal an antagonistic relationship with the community. Very unprofessional.
 
UPDATE:The Digital Bits reports that Disney has not taken the appropriate steps to create a new 4K restoration of the original trilogy. It’s possible and could be done – the necessary elements are around and preserved. At this point, the only restored cuts that exists are the much-maligned Special Editions.

Going back to 2015....post #122,...Disney doesn't need to:

Lowry Digital now known as Reliance Media Works have on their showreel & CV work done on a new 4K scan and restoration of the OT,....this work was done just before Disneys purchase.....and it looks beautiful,.....gone are the artefacts shown on the LFL scan done for the SE and subsequent Lowry restoration

This new 4K scan & restoration was likely for the planned 3D release

http://www.rmwusa.com

J
 
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That quote still doesn't rule out that the scan was of the negatives in their current 1997 Special Edition state.
 
Walt Disney has been gone 50 years now. In 30 more years will all that old Mickey & Minnie & Donald stuff be in the public domain? I doubt it.

Actually, yeah, under the law. AT least the stuff he personally authored. Steamboat Willie, for example, will be public domain. But I do expect to see quite a battle about it in courts at some point, more around the arena of trademark enforcement, rather than copyright. Should be interesting. Might even get to the Supreme Court if it happens.

That quote still doesn't rule out that the scan was of the negatives in their current 1997 Special Edition state.

From my own theory, it's possible they have the stuff from the 1997 edition scanned in, meaning that there are gaps for the F/X shots that were added later. Or, like, maybe the scene in ANH with Jabba has the original actor but no CGI Jabba.

As I understand it -- and I could be wrong here -- the SEs' digital content was all done at 1080p, like AOTC and ROTS. There is, effectively, no more resolution to glean from the images. You can "upscale them," but at that point you're using a computer program to "guess" at what the information is between the original pixels and extrapolate from other information on the image. For an entire film like AOTC and ROTS, that might be doable because it will at least look consistent with everything in the film. The whole film, if you will, would be upscaled. But with the SEs, you're mixing 1080p material with 35mm material, so it won't match exactly. Reliance can probably do a damn good job of hiding the seams if they have to, but as I've said, there's only so far you can go with 1080p material.

It may be the case that the entire SE is done at 1080p, too, in which case you'd have the same problem in that the whole thing can only be upscaled.

But the bottom line is this: If Disney wants to (and is allowed to) release a restored version of the OOT, they can do so. They could, conceivably, even do it as part of an updated SE project (scan in the original material, THEN cut it, THEN add in new digital shots based on the SEs' older digital shots). The real question is whether Disney wants to. Bryancd and I are of the opinion that they probably don't. The market isn't big enough to justify such an expense, and anyway, they can wait until the rights to ESB and ROTJ revert to them in a few years, rather than working a deal with Fox for all three. Why pay for three today, when you'll only have to pay for one later, right?
 
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By the way, for those who are unclear about the effects of upscaling too far, I recommend watching a DVD or Amazon digital copy of a Babylon 5 episode with a bunch of space combat.

You should probably try it on a blu-ray player. Bluray players use internal upscaling software for DVDs and, when you're going from 720p to an upscaled 1080p, it's...not bad. It's not as crisp as a native 1080p disc, but it's not bad. But the old special effects were never recorded in 720p. They're stuck in the older SDTV format (and worse, are shot in 4:3 and stretched to fill the screen). The effect is a weird zoom and a LOT of blurriness.

This is the concern with respect to upscaling from 1080p to something like 4K or 8K. You're talking two to three orders of magnitude greater. If the software is good enough, it will look...you know...ok. It won't look "right." Or "natural." But it'll look ok. But that relies on there being really good software.

So, with the SEs, my guess is they'll either do a weak job on upscaling the altered fx shots, or they'll have to rescan the old chopped-up bits in and then render the FX shots anew.

Orrrrrr.....scan in an old, good quality interpositive, upscale all of THAT stuff for an OOT restored, THEN scan in the additional scenes and start digitally splicing them in, and THEN add in new FX, and release in a single mega-set.

Which, by the way, I'd buy in a heartbeat. For an inflated price. WITH TPM INCLUDED.
 
Actually, yeah, under the law. AT least the stuff he personally authored. Steamboat Willie, for example, will be public domain. But I do expect to see quite a battle about it in courts at some point, more around the arena of trademark enforcement, rather than copyright. Should be interesting. Might even get to the Supreme Court if it happens.

That's what I was getting at. I don't see Disney giving up that IP without a big legal fight. And the other studios are probably headed for the same issue within a few decades after that.

Ian Fleming has been dead for about 50 years now. He was dead before some of his famous books even got to the screen.
 
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Actually, yeah, under the law. AT least the stuff he personally authored. Steamboat Willie, for example, will be public domain. But I do expect to see quite a battle about it in courts at some point, more around the arena of trademark enforcement, rather than copyright. Should be interesting. Might even get to the Supreme Court if it happens.

It'll never happen. They keep moving the expiration date: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_Term_Extension_Act

Which is sad (on multiple levels but I'll focus on entertainment) b/c having those creative works in the public domain leads to some great creativity and interpretations (See Sherlock Holmes for all the various stories that are now free to be created).
 
It'll never happen. They keep moving the expiration date: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_Term_Extension_Act

Which is sad (on multiple levels but I'll focus on entertainment) b/c having those creative works in the public domain leads to some great creativity and interpretations (See Sherlock Holmes for all the various stories that are now free to be created).

Yeah, I know they did that. It was controversial at the time. I think, at a certain point, it could be challenged on constitutional grounds, given that copyright is actually a part of the Constitution. It explicitly states that authors can be granted limited times for the author's exclusive rights. In other words, copyrights are, per the Constitution, finite. If they kick the can down the road again, I think you could challenge it.

But intellectual property law doesn't end with copyright. You have Trademark as well, and something like Mickey Mouse could qualify for trademark protection. In other words, creating a derivative work of Steamboat Willie would be....really difficult. Although you could probably show Steamboat Willie itself without fear (once it's in the public domain). The "works of corporate authorship" part makes this trickier, because you'd be arguing super fact-specific cases like whether your derivative work is derivative of the public domain work, or derivative of a protected work. Likewise, you might still get nailed for trademark violation without regard to the copyright status of the work. Like, ok, you can show Steamboat Willie, but you can't create a derivative work not because it infringes copyright, but because people will likely be confused and think it's a Disney product.
 
One thing about upscaling:
All the '97 SE changes, 1080 as they may be, were output to film, which is why the negatives reflect that version. Scanning that altered footage at a higher res from FILM along with everything else is more forgiving. No, it won't look spectacular, but it will look bad in an analog, FILMY way (technical term!) rather than a pixely way, like when you blow up a jpeg. I could see Unca G settling for that.

How the further changes in the digital realm made in the aughts for video releases factor in, I dunno.
 
I still find it hard to believe that digital updates were spliced into the original masterfilm, when at the same time Lucasfilm did a 2K scan of the film.......I'm no brain surgeon....but if it were me,....I'd clean up the film,....scan the film at the highest res at the time...(which was 2K)....put the nice cleaned up movie away.....& monkey about with digital stuff on the digital movie......print from there & release.....I work in video/graphic production......changes are done on the duplicate

J
 
Article on the Library of Congress and Star Wars.

http://savestarwars.com/lucas-nfr.html

We should contact our Congressmen and Senators and have them get Star Wars and Empire removed from the NFR because he will not provide legit prints.

Also a start a change.org petition to get Lucas removed from the board of directors of The Film Foundation.

Perhaps a good public shaming and a beat down of his legacy would set him straight... probably not though.
 
@Bryancd and I are of the opinion that they probably don't. The market isn't big enough to justify such an expense, and anyway, they can wait until the rights to ESB and ROTJ revert to them in a few years, rather than working a deal with Fox for all three. Why pay for three today, when you'll only have to pay for one later, right?

Where exactly are you getting your information about the size of the market? All I've read in this thread are assumptions and weak inferences based on tenuous 'connections' to Lucasfilm and Disney. Also, ESB and ROTJ are irrelevant at this point. This year is all about celebrating the original movie, not the original trilogy. I don't know why you keep bringing that up. Unless you know something the rest of us don't, the sequel rights aren't an obstacle.


Speaking of which, Pablo might have been referring to the whole Trilogy as well. There's his 'out', right there. If it IS just "Star Wars '77" being released this year then his tweets WERE "true, from a certain point of view".
 
Where exactly are you getting your information about the size of the market? All I've read in this thread are assumptions and weak inferences based on tenuous 'connections' to Lucasfilm and Disney. Also, ESB and ROTJ are irrelevant at this point. This year is all about celebrating the original movie, not the original trilogy. I don't know why you keep bringing that up. Unless you know something the rest of us don't, the sequel rights aren't an obstacle
Speaking of which, Pablo might have been referring to the whole Trilogy as well. There's his 'out', right there. If it IS just "Star Wars '77" being released this year then his tweets WERE "true, from a certain point of view".

I'm not saying this in a way to try to make you feel like "Shut up, new guy!" But you joined this board in December, 2016, so you may not have read through the rather voluminous run of pages that this thread takes up. On this board, the subject of the OOT has come up many a time, and usually there's a discussion about whether it's really happening, why it is or isn't, and what it'd mean for it to actually come to pass.

Disney is a publicly traded company that has to justify its expenditures to its shareholders. It can't just go blowing cash on projects without having a good reason, because the cash its blowing is, in fact, the shareholders' money. So, vanity projects, pet projects, or things that aren't really profitable but people think are really really cool...generally are less likely to be greenlit. Someone, somewhere has to have some kind of proposal that shows why the project will not merely make money or break even, but be the BEST expenditure of Disney's cash that that money could buy.

Enter the OOT.

This is an expensive project, depending on how it happens. Disney has to pay some studio to do the restoration work on the films. The quality of the source material may be questionable. We suspect there are interpositives (which aren't as good as negatives, but are close) of the original versions of the films floating around somewhere or stored in some vault. We know that the actual original negatives are either shot or so chopped up as to be basically incapable of producing the OOT now. Or at least, so Disney and Lucas and everyone involved has said. That might not be the whole truth, but especially with George no longer in control, nobody has any reason to lie, really.

So, it'd cost money to make this project happen. What could they reasonably expect to receive? That's a big question, and a legitimate one. Star Wars has been released at least once on every home media format. DVDs in 2004 (and a repackaging in 2006 with the LD rips), and blu-rays in 2012. They've been available in those forms since then. At this point, it's fair to assume that anyone who wanted to buy them...bought them. So, any future release either needs to be a new format, or needs to offer something new and improved. Whether that's a new transfer, new resolution, or something else, people aren't likely to shell out cash for these films again if they already own them.

In this little hobby, in this little corner of the internet, it's easy to assume that OF COURSE everyone would LOVE an archival version of the OOT. I mean, duh, right? Who'd prefer the SEs? But the thing is, many, many, many average consumers out there (not superfans like us), really just...don't care. They probably wouldn't notice that the krayt dragon scream is different in the DVDs than what it was on the VHS version they had as kids. They don't even know what a krayt dragon is, let alone that the dewback cry in the original probably wouldn't frighten Sand People to begin with. To them, Obi-Wan just screams, waves his arms, and the Sand People run away.

They don't care that the sabres turned into glowbats as opposed to the more "wild" sense of barely contained plasma fire in the OOT. They don't care that "Close the blast doors!" appears in a sound edit that isn't the old mono feed. They get that "Han Shot First," but...eh...it doesn't really bug 'em. To them, "close enough" is close enough. And the SEs are close enough to the experience they want.

Most people are like this, I think it's safe to say. As a result, most people have already bought the blu-rays, and are therefore unlikely to buy a new version of the OOT. Unless the OOT version was the only thing available, and then at something like 4K or upwards, they probably wouldn't buy, and even at 4K, they might just balk anyway because how many times do they have to keep buying the same movie?

All of this suggests that the market for the OOTs isn't all that big. It's vocal, sure. Deeply passionate. And maybe willing to pony up more cash than the average viewer would (e.g., I would definitely pay $200 for the OOT alone, if it was done properly and officially). But there just aren't enough of them to justify the outlay of cash necessary to make the project happen.

And none of this addresses the issue that Fox currently owns the distribution rights to all three OT films. Those rights won't revert to Disney until, I think, 2020 at the earliest. Maybe later. I forget. And they will NEVER revert for ANH; Fox holds the distro rights to that film for all eternity. That means if Disney is going to release the OOT, it has to cut a deal with Fox if it wants to do so before 2020 or so. It would then have to justify paying Fox money today that it could save by just waiting until the rights reverse, and again, for what? So fanboys like us can have our OOT? Unlikely.
 
Thanks for replying, Dan. My membership may be new, but I have been reading the forum for years and I'm familiar with the topic. Your latest post is basically just repeating all of the inference and assumption that has been stated countless times before. Opinion and speculation are fine, but they are not evidence. Also, whenever someone claims to know what the majority thinks or is willing to buy I take a skeptical viewpoint. Are you privy to current Disney market research that supports your assertion? I'm guessing not.

On top of that, you seem unwilling to address the possibility of an individual release of 'Episode 4' this year. I honestly don't understand why that is.
 

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