Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release)

What did you think of Star Wars: The Last Jedi?

  • It was great. Loved it. Don't miss it at the theaters.

    Votes: 154 26.6%
  • It was good. Liked it very much. Worth the theater visit.

    Votes: 135 23.4%
  • It was okay. Not too pleased with it. Could watch it at the cinema once or wait for home video.

    Votes: 117 20.2%
  • It was disappointing. Watch it on home video instead.

    Votes: 70 12.1%
  • It was bad. Don't waste your time with it.

    Votes: 102 17.6%

  • Total voters
    578
IMDB?

I am solo glad you mentioned them. You see, they take metacritics and use their reviews to "balance out" the peons reviews.

So, (46 + 91) / 2 =

You could have 40 million negative reviews from fans, but imdb cheats.

Better yet, read the reviews from the person who gave The Last Jedi 100% "It’s less Star Wars as you’ve never seen it than Star Wars as you’ve never felt it."

Gee, give a few "metacritics" some green and suddenly you can skew ANY review 50 points.
The metascore in IMDb you’re referring to is completely different from the user star rating I was referring to. Totally different. Just like the Rotten Tomatoes critic score versus the fan rating. Not sure how you came up with the conspiracy theory about IMDb “cheating,” but it’s not relevant to what I said.

For someone who claims to know about statistics, all I see is turning a blind eye to gross abuses of statistical analysis.
I think you still have no clue what “representative sampling” actually means.

You agree asking people as they leave will effect an accurate poll, but then claim you never said anything close to this...uh, you just did. I pointed it out...you agreed. It deliberately skews a poll.
I said it wasn’t perfect. No poll is completely perfect. But that has nothing to do with what I said I “never said anything close to.” See post #5207. I was quoting where you said I was “deliberately disregarding people’s opinions.” You’re just making things up here.

Notice you haven't TOUCHED the deleted negative reviews.
Post #5183, literally the first thing I said.

This is statistical rabbit hole, you will argue statistics are relevant until they aren't. It is a waste of time argument to avoid the issue that more folks disliked TLJ than liked it.
It’s not a rabbit hole, you just don’t seem to understand what I’m saying. I agree that it’s a waste of time, but only because I have to keep explaining the same things over and over to you. As for “the issue that more folks disliked TLJ than liked it,” I’ll ask one more time: source?

You made the assertion people who loved or hated it are more likely to voice and opinion online, not me, I just said it was more convenient so more likely to get a larger, more legit sample when I can voice my opinion online. Plenty of in-the-middle reviews for TLJ, but more low than high, by real fans...even through your own example of imdb.
The idea that people who have an opinion on one far end of the spectrum or the other are more likely to take the time to write a review isn’t something I made up on the spot. It’s common sense. I asked if you write reviews for every film you watch and for every hotel and every restaurant you visit. You didn’t answer. Again here you’re showing that you don’t know what a representative sample is. Also, if there were more negative than positive reviews on IMDb, why is the rating overall a 7.3?

Since I’m explaining the same things over and over, and you still aren’t getting it, maybe someone else will explain for you. In the meantime, I’m gonna go ahead and continue with the other discussions in this thread, with people who aren’t fixated on how many people liked or disliked the movie.
 
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It's obvious there will always be a faction of SW fans who will gladly eat a poop sandwich, convince themselves its a deli turkey club, when the reality is they actually like eating poop sandwiches and can't tell the difference... :wacko indeed.
What’s more obvious is that people have different opinions about things. This is what makes the world interesting. Some people just seem to struggle with the idea that other people might not like the same things that they do, and, *gasp*, some people might even genuinely like things that they don’t like.
 
It's obvious there will always be a faction of SW fans who will gladly eat a poop sandwich, convince themselves its a deli turkey club, when the reality is they actually like eating poop sandwiches and can't tell the difference... :wacko indeed.

Again... more generalizing of millions of people because they like something you don't.

If millions love and millions hate, you can't just say half the population has no taste.

I like that movie a lot... so apparently I can't tell the difference between poop and turkey?

I guess that's a possibility.

It could also be some people will gladly sound like they're 12 years old with no concept that the world doesn't revolve around their specific tastes.
 
I don't see how anyone could like the main pot of TLJ.

Bombing run, First Order blows up the bridge on the rebels lead ship then pull back...WHAT!?!?! The First Order is mobile.

It is absurd. Bomb the engines on the Rddus, jump some ships past them. Why give the rebels as much time as possible to come up with something?

And then hyperspace being used for a second time in a way you know any military would have tried upon creation of jump engines.

Let's be real here: according the novel, the FO has 30 Star Destroyers escorting the Supremacy. Each SD has 1,500 turbolasers and 144 TIE's. 4,320 fighters on the escort ships alone. Plus whatever fighters are on the Supremacy, the biggest ship ever seen in SW and with a crew of 2.25 million. We are talking about 30+ hours slowly ticking by while Snoke just chills with his gold slippers on and the entire FO eats 3 meals while chasing the Raddus at sublight speeds. This doesn't feel exciting and it doesn't feel like SW. And the entire plot is based around this chase taking forever and the FO keeping their powder dry. No disrespect to people that liked TLJ, but I don't see how people can think this is a serviceable plot for any sci fi, much less SW.
 
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The metascore in IMDb you’re referring to is completely different from the user star rating I was referring to. Totally different. Just like the Rotten Tomatoes critic score versus the fan rating. Not sure how you came up with the conspiracy theory about IMDb “cheating,” but it’s not relevant to what I said.


I think you still have no clue what “representative sampling” actually means.


I said it wasn’t perfect. No poll is completely perfect. But that has nothing to do with what I said I “never said anything close to.” See post #5207. I was quoting where you said I was “deliberately disregarding people’s opinions.” You’re just making things up here.


Post #5183, literally the first thing I said.


It’s not a rabbit hole, you just don’t seem to understand what I’m saying. I agree that it’s a waste of time, but only because I have to keep explaining the same things over and over to you. As for “the issue that more folks disliked TLJ than liked it,” I’ll ask one more time: source?


The idea that people who have an opinion on one far end of the spectrum or the other are more likely to take the time to write a review isn’t something I made up on the spot. It’s common sense. I asked if you write reviews for every film you watch and for every hotel and every restaurant you visit. You didn’t answer. Again here you’re showing that you don’t know what a representative sample is. Also, if there were more negative than positive reviews on IMDb, why is the rating overall a 7.3?

Since I’m explaining the same things over and over, and you still aren’t getting it, maybe someone else will explain for you. In the meantime, I’m gonna go ahead and continue with the other discussions in this thread, with people who aren’t fixated on how many people liked or disliked the movie.

For starters, the timeline of negative reviews started *after* the last jedi, you are not being honest. Disregarding reviews you dislike is not and accurate representative sample.

Second, your recommended method to evaluate whether people "liked" or "disliked" a movie was already proven less accurate than my allowing those who need to process, time to process. So, preach "representative sampling" to someone else...I clearly understand it better. You dont have a better means than I do. Also, with a boolean scenario of "like" or "dislike" you become absurd in claiming the squishy, 3 out of 5, indifferent, "meh" vote is relevant when the question is "like" vs "dislike."

The irony being YOU latched on to the "lotsa people dislike" but now that your own article agrees negative reviews were deleted and I cited clearly fake positive reviews you need an out. You go past naive directly to propagandist.
 
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For starters, the timeline of negative reviews started *after* the last jedi, you are not being honest. Disregarding reviews you dislike is not and accurate representative sample.
I never suggested that people had been reviewing TLJ before it came out. I think that did happen with Black Panther, but in any case it’s not relevant to what we’ve been talking about.

Second, your recommended method to evaluate whether people "liked" or "disliked" a movie was already proven less accurate than my allowing those who need to process, time to process.
Proven? How exactly is a poll on the internet (which eliminates all people who have watched the movie but don’t have internet), on a website (which eliminates all viewers who have never heard of or never visited Rotten Tomatoes) more accurate than asking people about a movie they just watched as they exit the theater where they watched it? I already agreed that some people’s opinions would change or wouldn’t be fully formed at that point, but that’s also an issue with an online poll: a fan goes out, sees the film and either loves it or hates it, comes home and writes a review on RT. Does RT ever ask if that person changed his/her mind? No. Would every single person who wrote a review on RT log back in to change their review in the event they changed their mind? No.

So, preach "representative sampling" to someone else...I clearly understand it better. You dont have a better means than I do. Also, with a boolean scenario of "like" or "dislike" you become absurd in claiming the squishy, 3 out of 5, indifferent, "meh" vote is relevant when the question is "like" vs "dislike."
I wasn’t the one who initially said “more people disliked TLJ than liked it.” You did. Post #5173. Here, I’ll even copy the part where you brought up the “like/dislike” idea first:

46% on Rotten Tomatoes. So, using math (remember how I said math wasn't gonna work?) that means 54% didnt like. So yes, "lot's of people are saying it stank."

54 is greater than 46. And that means a majority of people recommend *not* seeing it.
Huh.

The irony being YOU latched on to the "lotsa people dislike" but now that your own article agrees negative reviews were deleted and I cited clearly fake positive reviews you need an out. You go past naive directly to propagandist.
I did? You said it right where I quoted you above. As for “clearly fake reviews,” in reality we have no way of knowing whether ANY review posted online is written by a bot, by a person who saw the film, or by a person who never saw it. We also have no way of knowing if a review posted online is a person’s only review written about a movie, or if they’ve written 10 reviews in an attempt to alter the results in one direction or the other. A poorly written or short review doesn’t automatically mean that someone is making things up. As it happens, the only way that we could be pretty darn sure that a person giving their opinion about the film had actually seen the film would be... yep. Asking them at the theater.

I gave this another shot, but at this point, you’re saying I said things that you, yourself said, and the things I’m explaining over and over still aren’t registering. So I’m afraid it’s the ignore list for you, to spare everyone more of this “You said this!” “No, actually you said that. Quoted here...” nonsense.
 
Ok, I’ll bite.

As a general rule, whenever I hear a phrase like “Lots of people are saying...,” or “Most people think that...” I begin to suspect that whatever idea

Oh yes, you *never* challenged the concept of "lots of people."

Nope...never. ;)
 
It's obvious there will always be a faction of SW fans who will gladly eat a poop sandwich, convince themselves its a deli turkey club, when the reality is they actually like eating poop sandwiches and can't tell the difference... :wacko indeed.

Its also obvious that there will be a faction of people who take a poop on someone enjoying a turkey club because the pooper doesn't like turkey club sandwiches. They just can't understand how someone can enjoy those vile disgusting turkey clubs. Then they take the time to stand outside turkey club restaurants everyday telling the customers how badly turkey clubs suck. "I hate turkey clubs! And so should you!" they chant. Yes, :wacko to the :wacko eth power.

Btw, I didn't like TLJ and I am on record saying that in this thread and others. I also think the hate gets a little out of hand in here sometimes. I also think that deep down inside, you like TLJ but just don't want to admit it to the world. :p
 
Thanks- I actually was referring to the guy who kept responding to me after I said I’d put him on ignore, but I see that it wasn’t clear.

Helpful tip for others in any case :cheers

That's rich, you get caught lying, but claim the *other person* who has the issue.

Helps explain your inability to accept rational data collection practices and outcomes that you dont like.

A well prepared, healthy, yummy turkey club isnt the problem, its the people who wolfed down the turkey club that was swarming with flies, prepared by Rian Johnson, and after five days in the icu with six feet of their bowel removed, now want to convince you it was delish...try one. Oh wait, now they want you to hit ignore. As for that phone book of hispital records.. not an adequate representation. ;)
 
Thanks- I actually was referring to the guy who kept responding to me after I said I’d put him on ignore, but I see that it wasn’t clear.

Helpful tip for others in any case :cheers

Just because you put someone else on ignore doesn't mean they have any obligation to ignore you. They can respond to anything you have to say any time they wish. You just won't see it. Not sure why that bothers some people.
 
Just because you put someone else on ignore doesn't mean they have any obligation to ignore you. They can respond to anything you have to say any time they wish. You just won't see it. Not sure why that bothers some people.

Oh, I see exactly why it bothers some people, at least in certain situations - this very thread containing examples. When the “ignore” function was first introduced on the RPF – sometime prior to mid-2004 – it was an attempt to stem or contain a lot of the flaming and conflict that was going on at the time (there were other attempts around that time as well, such as shunting all of the arguing to a dedicated forum, the Flame Pit). In some instances, the conflict was not mutual or had ceased to be mutual – but certain posters continued to perpetuate it by commenting on subsequent posts or threads by their former adversaries or otherwise just refusing to "let it go”.

The “ignore” function was hoped to work like separating the two parties so neither adversely affected the other’s enjoyment of the forum. However, it became apparent that it only worked one way, much like stuffing one’s fingers in your ears - you could block yourself from hearing the taunts of the other party, but it didn’t stop the other party from continuing to harass you. (In fairness to the RPF, I’m not aware of any forum that has a “mutual ignore” function that can be activated by only one party.) All it did was keep you from realizing you were being taunted (or from responding, or reporting those taunts) – but everyone else in the forum could still see it. So, yeah, some people have a problem with the fact that their attempts to disengage from an unpleasant interaction amounts to really nothing more than putting blinders on, and does nothing to actually stem the harassment.

That’s why I rarely, if ever, resort to the “ignore” function, and instead have, of late, used the “report” function to notify the mods of posts where people call others liars without cause, question someone’s age and comprehension skills when disagreeing with a simple statement like “Rey wasn’t a slave”, or continue to chase after other posters who have clearly indicated that they wish to withdraw from the discussion. It’s always better to just address a problem head-on rather than try to pretend it doesn’t exist.

M..
 
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Very true. Everyone who disliked the movie always seems to get lumped together by those defending it, and vice versa.

Something I’d be interesting in hearing from others is this: of the people who liked TLJ, was it because of the ways in which it, in Rian’s words, “subverted expectations?” Or was it in spite of this? Personally, the subverting in various ways and undoing of some of the groundwork I felt was laid in TFA made me like TLJ less, not more. I like TLJ in spite of its flaws, but there are a lot of things I would have done differently.

I can't speak to anyone else, but I liked it at least in part because of how it subverted expectations.

When the sequel trilogy was announced, I was cautiously optimistic. The franchise was out of George's hands, and while I've since come to think that ROTS isn't as bad as I'd originally thought it to be, the rest of the PT is...not that enjoyable to me, and I maintain that George is a better idea man than he is a writer or director. Producer/exec producer? Absolutely! Top notch! Writer or director? ...not without a good crew of "No" men and a really, really good editor. (ahem)

My original ideal scenario would have involved the story moving several generations into the future and picking up from there. When they announced that the OT cast would return for the ST, I was...a lot more cautious. I recognized that including the OT characters would mean that there was a very high likelihood that they'd end up being killed off or retiring into obscurity. Basically, the "happily ever after" ending of ROTJ would have to be undone in order for there to be any real story to tell. Although I didn't like the idea, I accepted that this was the new direction of the franchise and reconciled myself to it.

I watched and mostly enjoyed TFA. I enjoyed it as a return to form for the franchise, I loved the new cast, and I was okay-ish with what happened to the old cast (I spoiled myself on Han's death on purpose, just so that I'd be prepared for it). However, I did have my criticisms, and one of the biggest was that the film hit a LOT of the beats of ANH. It wasn't a mirror image of the film, but it was clearly an homage, complete with yet another superweapon planet-killer thingamajig that had to be blown up by a bunch of plucky X-wings. There was enough new and different, though, to grab my attention, and I looked forward to seeing where they'd go with it. But what I really wanted, more than anything else, was to break with the familiar and break out of the mold of the previous films. I did NOT want the story to become "ESB mk. II," with Ep. IX being "ROTJ mk. II." I didn't want the franchise to turn into an endless series of iterations of the OT until the end of time (or the franchise). I wanted things to evolve.

While Luke was jarring, especially given who we last saw him as in ROTJ, I thought the character fit, and I thought it was absolutely the best performance that Mark Hamill has given that I've seen (admittedly, I've not watched Corvette Summer, and it's been a long time since I saw Slipstream...). Hamill may also have been jarred by the tone of the character, but he knocked the performance out of the park and completely sold me on where Luke was. When I watched the film -- both in the theater and on home media since -- I never feel as if it's "Mark Hamill as Luke." It feels like "This is Luke, if these events happened to him and if he made these choices." And that's entirely due to Mark, Rian's direction, and the writing. I get why people find this characterization jarring, even shocking, but I think it fits if you can accept the critical moment at the Academy between Luke and Ben as something likely to happen.

So, I really enjoyed how TLJ moved things beyond the expected outcomes of ESB. I don't see them as simply "flip the script" moments, either. I think they all hold together well for the story that Rian Johnson was trying to tell, and I think that story is probably the most interesting exploration of characters that has appeared in the Star Wars universe so far. I think it's very artistically managed, as well, with Rey and Ben sharing polar-opposite paths and being driven by polar-opposite impulses, each coveting what the other has (until Rey breaks the cycle...I think). I also liked that the film ended at what feels like a beginning, rather than a natural path to an end. I liked that the story doesn't feel like it can be neatly wrapped up with a single film, and I really, really, REALLY hope that they don't try to do so. I liked how this was accomplished by dispatching Snoke and Ben assuming power, after we've grown to sort of sympathize with him and want him to turn back to good. When he and Rey unite to fight the Praetorian guard it is one of the most thrilling moments in a Star Wars film that I've seen (yes, even with the wonky editing). I'm rooting for them both, and I feel Rey's crushing disappointment when she realizes that he's done this not because he's ready to turn to the good, but because he's still hell-bent on destroying the past as if it will give his life some kind of meaning.

I liked -- no, LOVED -- that Rey's quest for her parents is ultimately a red herring of sorts, and that the true meaning of that search is Rey's search for easy answers, a path, and someone else to determine her fate for her...which she eventually rejects when she chooses to chart her own course. I think that's an incredibly powerful choice and an incredibly powerful message. Finally, I absolutely love the underlying message of the film that anyone out there can be a hero if they rise to the occasion, and that it's not a question of birth or destiny, but rather of will applied to circumstance. Again, I think that's an incredibly powerful message, and one that kind of gets muddled with both Anakin and Luke. In a way, I think this is an unexpected turn as well, because we've become conditioned to expect that the hero will be some hero of destiny with the blood of powerful Jedi in their veins or whatever. Like, everyone expected (still expects?) Rey to be a Kenobiwalker or the reincarnation of Anakin or a gender-bent clone of the Emperor or whatever, and I love that that's just...not the case.

And finally, I thought Luke's death was just beautiful. It's a really moving send-off, but one that, for me, wasn't really tragic. Not exactly. It's sad, but fitting. Plus I don't think we've seen the last of him. I'm not sure it subverted expectations, except insofar as his death wasn't abrupt like Qui-Gon or serene but in the midst of combat like Obi-Wan (although it's closer to Obi-Wan).

Anyway, that's why I liked how it subverted certain expectations.
 
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