Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Post-release)
- Thread starter Vivek
- Start date
Have you guys seen this TFA Commentary? I haven't gotten the DVD yet--I wonder if it's part of the Bonus material?
http://bgr.com/2016/04/21/force-awakens-schwarzenegger-commentary/
The Wook
http://bgr.com/2016/04/21/force-awakens-schwarzenegger-commentary/
The Wook
Darth Fetty
Sr Member
Good stuff, although was really hoping for a Kylo Ren vs. Stannis Baratheon showdown by the end.
the commentary is only on dvd? the bluray doesn't have it i was looking for it and couldn't find it
People are perfectly capable of well liking a film whilst wishing ,at the same time, some care and thought had gone into certain elements of it. It still remains a largely enjoyayable thrill ride. But for some of us who appreciate good plotting and storylines it could have been done better. At the speed they did it and under the time spressures it a great SW film, BUT it has several flaws that should have been fixed at a script level.
I have , as I have said, a huge issue with this sudden abilty (newly created) of anyone to track any of spacecraft by their "signatures". I am assuming it was introduced to explain how Han found the Falcon quickly. Hux uses the same mechanic to track the Resistance Recon ship back to their base. And although its cut from the film ,Unkar Plutt tracks the Falcon to Maz's castle (where he gets his arm ripped of by Chewie)and thats in the novel. Everyone can track ships and particulary the Falcon, and, this is going to be particularly difficult going forward, because of the Kylo connection. In fact its critical.
Why , given this is the case (and presuming they don't want Kylo and the First Order to find Luke and the First Jedi temple quickly since he has been in hiding for years) WHY DOES REY decide to fly the Millenium Falcon, a ship that has already been tracked by so many people in this film to its destinations ,DIRECTLY TO LUKE????? (no wonder he looks annoyed with her).
Actually I know exactly why this happens and all the other things I questioned in that critical post happened. Its because the script ,as it was written ,required them to happen like that , for EFFECT. NOT because it really needed to make alot of sense.
But by doing this , it potentially causes so many problems for the next two films as you can see. It may look good at the time but its a horrible flaw and as a SW fan I hate to see these kind of errors in the film. It weakens the story, makes key characters, both the good and the evil look like idiots at times and I don't want that. Thats why I critisice the story, not because I hate it, I just, like most SW fans, want it to be better and truer to the SW universe I love and respect.
So if the story requires Kylo to kill straight away so he has a reason to take Poe prisoner,so ,as a pilot that he can help Fin to escape, then OK, but its not good. If it does not require Kylo to ask the obvious question "where is the Resistance base" because that would make it the immediate target of the First Order rather than the New Republic, (it would have made for alot shorter film as well) then OK but STILL not good. As the central body of government,it was always going to be more dramatic to destroy the New Republic for the stories sake and they were always going to behave to be toast if the First Order were going to take power.
But I don't have to like those choices. Unfortunately for me TFA story now seems more contrived with repeated viewings . Key plot points and devices are rushed forward and tied together weakly. You cannot explain them away for later, unlike elements of the unexplained character histories which are just fine. That was true of the OT BUT, and its a big but, the OT is hugely consistent to both its characters and storylines and what happens doesn't contradict much of what occurs during the films or trilogy itself.
Going back to the beginning of my post ,in "A New Hope", the only reason the Empire found where the Rebels were on Yarvin was they ATTACHED a tracking DEVICE to the Falcon and let it escape. Leia knew it and allowed it to happen. I always assumed Han removed the beacon later. That works, it and makes sense.
Again if they could have just traced the Falcon by its signature, then they wouldn't have needed to send out all those spyprobe droids in TESB to find the Rebels on Hoth or hired all those Bounty Hunters to TRACK THE MILLENIUM FALCON. Boba Fett should have been able to find the Falcon at anytime, if he could just trace the Falcon by its signature.
So going forward in the trilogy, how it will be possible or even make sense for any key character to take the Falcon or any other spacecraft whose destination is of any significant interest anywhere critically important WITHOUT being tracked.
Its there in the film. Its mentioned by two key characters twice.
The truth is its a large and horrible flaw in the story. And somebody should have spotted it and solved.
Yet there is one an easy and elegant solution and one key character in TFA should be able to solve the problem. But will they do it?
I have , as I have said, a huge issue with this sudden abilty (newly created) of anyone to track any of spacecraft by their "signatures". I am assuming it was introduced to explain how Han found the Falcon quickly. Hux uses the same mechanic to track the Resistance Recon ship back to their base. And although its cut from the film ,Unkar Plutt tracks the Falcon to Maz's castle (where he gets his arm ripped of by Chewie)and thats in the novel. Everyone can track ships and particulary the Falcon, and, this is going to be particularly difficult going forward, because of the Kylo connection. In fact its critical.
Why , given this is the case (and presuming they don't want Kylo and the First Order to find Luke and the First Jedi temple quickly since he has been in hiding for years) WHY DOES REY decide to fly the Millenium Falcon, a ship that has already been tracked by so many people in this film to its destinations ,DIRECTLY TO LUKE????? (no wonder he looks annoyed with her).
Actually I know exactly why this happens and all the other things I questioned in that critical post happened. Its because the script ,as it was written ,required them to happen like that , for EFFECT. NOT because it really needed to make alot of sense.
But by doing this , it potentially causes so many problems for the next two films as you can see. It may look good at the time but its a horrible flaw and as a SW fan I hate to see these kind of errors in the film. It weakens the story, makes key characters, both the good and the evil look like idiots at times and I don't want that. Thats why I critisice the story, not because I hate it, I just, like most SW fans, want it to be better and truer to the SW universe I love and respect.
So if the story requires Kylo to kill straight away so he has a reason to take Poe prisoner,so ,as a pilot that he can help Fin to escape, then OK, but its not good. If it does not require Kylo to ask the obvious question "where is the Resistance base" because that would make it the immediate target of the First Order rather than the New Republic, (it would have made for alot shorter film as well) then OK but STILL not good. As the central body of government,it was always going to be more dramatic to destroy the New Republic for the stories sake and they were always going to behave to be toast if the First Order were going to take power.
But I don't have to like those choices. Unfortunately for me TFA story now seems more contrived with repeated viewings . Key plot points and devices are rushed forward and tied together weakly. You cannot explain them away for later, unlike elements of the unexplained character histories which are just fine. That was true of the OT BUT, and its a big but, the OT is hugely consistent to both its characters and storylines and what happens doesn't contradict much of what occurs during the films or trilogy itself.
Going back to the beginning of my post ,in "A New Hope", the only reason the Empire found where the Rebels were on Yarvin was they ATTACHED a tracking DEVICE to the Falcon and let it escape. Leia knew it and allowed it to happen. I always assumed Han removed the beacon later. That works, it and makes sense.
Again if they could have just traced the Falcon by its signature, then they wouldn't have needed to send out all those spyprobe droids in TESB to find the Rebels on Hoth or hired all those Bounty Hunters to TRACK THE MILLENIUM FALCON. Boba Fett should have been able to find the Falcon at anytime, if he could just trace the Falcon by its signature.
So going forward in the trilogy, how it will be possible or even make sense for any key character to take the Falcon or any other spacecraft whose destination is of any significant interest anywhere critically important WITHOUT being tracked.
Its there in the film. Its mentioned by two key characters twice.
The truth is its a large and horrible flaw in the story. And somebody should have spotted it and solved.
Yet there is one an easy and elegant solution and one key character in TFA should be able to solve the problem. But will they do it?
Boy, mate, I have to say I didn't give a toss about the whole ship tracking thing.
kristen jones
Master Member
Mountains from molehills, I'd say. :rolleyes
How many times... HOW MANY TIMES did Star trek introduce some new "tech" on the fly for plot points? And yet that is defended as part of the chemistry of the show.
Because *YOU* decided that ships shouldn't be able to be tracked by their signatures, that somehow makes it bad wrting? Well i suppose it does from *YOUR* perspective... but that I think is what has been lost sight of here: it's just an opinion. And clearly it isn't one that is widely shared in this group, so one ought not wonder that it is being met with resistance.
How many times... HOW MANY TIMES did Star trek introduce some new "tech" on the fly for plot points? And yet that is defended as part of the chemistry of the show.
Because *YOU* decided that ships shouldn't be able to be tracked by their signatures, that somehow makes it bad wrting? Well i suppose it does from *YOUR* perspective... but that I think is what has been lost sight of here: it's just an opinion. And clearly it isn't one that is widely shared in this group, so one ought not wonder that it is being met with resistance.
Also the notion that this construct has profound implications for the story going forward I have a hard time rationalizing. It wouldn't even cross my mind. But as you say, everyone has their own "individual" reaction that they often make as a "general" observation which should be obvious to "everyone".
I don't think ANYONE liked Transwarp beaming or magic blood that cures death. Those are the kinds of new things that once you introduce in a universe, you've essentially changed the way the whole universe should work. And as Into Darkness demonstrated, you can take this stupid tech and make it even more stupid by putting an entire transporter room in a tout bag AND saying it cannot be replicated because.... the equation was confiscated. How do you confiscate an equation?
"They took away the equation so we can no longer figure out what two number make up 2!"
Well, from my perspective, one area that is usually a sign of bad story telling is when the movie makes a big deal about something, but later forgets it when it actually matters. The whole point of Han going to see Maz was to get BB-8 to the Resistance because he knew that the Falcon could easily be tracked by the enemy. This has happened before so we know Han is speaking out of experience. And yet when Han asks Maz for help, she tells him she won't help because he should stop running and join the fight against the First Order. Ok, but what about the Falcon? It's still a liability. Not only is this plot point dropped completely, they fly the Falcon to the 'still' hidden Resistance base anyways, so what was the point?
kristen jones
Master Member
Hmm... I guess I don't have a *good* answer for why they did that, except that they went to the resistance base AFTER Maz's, and they had already confronted the First Order there.
Kylo Ren decided at that point that he didn't care about the Falcon or BB-8 at that point...he was convinced that Rey alone would help him achieve his goal (his ONLY goal, BTW) to discover Skywalker's whereabouts.
So I guess since Kylo Ren dropped pursuit of the Falcon and everyone else at that point, we as an audience were meant to drop it as well.
In short, the weren't after the falcon or the resistance anymore at that point...that's why.
Hux very much wanted them still...and wanted to find and wipe out the resistance. but Hux wasn't there at Maz's... that was Kylo operating on his own. We saw after what Hux thought of Kylo's decision.
Kylo Ren decided at that point that he didn't care about the Falcon or BB-8 at that point...he was convinced that Rey alone would help him achieve his goal (his ONLY goal, BTW) to discover Skywalker's whereabouts.
So I guess since Kylo Ren dropped pursuit of the Falcon and everyone else at that point, we as an audience were meant to drop it as well.
In short, the weren't after the falcon or the resistance anymore at that point...that's why.
Hux very much wanted them still...and wanted to find and wipe out the resistance. but Hux wasn't there at Maz's... that was Kylo operating on his own. We saw after what Hux thought of Kylo's decision.
From my first viewing, I took two things away, regarding tracking. One: I got the distinct impression Han was telling Chewie to see if he could find and disable whatever transponder enabled him to find the Falcon, and thus by the time they went on to the Resistance base, the ship was clean. And two, that the Resistance didn't know the First Order had the capability to track their recon ship, else Snap would have taken more precautions.
Also, @CutThumb, going back to your post that started all this, I think you need to watch that scene again, because Hux says to Snoke that the Republic is protecting the Resistance, not the other way around. Ergo, punishing the public supporters of their enemy to make a point (and since they, at that point, didn't know where the Resistance base was).
I also never had a problem with that being the first time he'd fired Chewie's bowcaster. I have a deeply ingrained weapons etiquette thing where "you don't touch another man's piece" unless invited/offered. I can easily see Han spending decades with Chewie and not even being aware of a subconscious tic where he's got his blaster that he's tweaked just so to make it perfect for him (never mind all the different props we see throughout the films) and he prefers it and Chewie has his and it's his and he doesn't mess with it. He's just gotten to the cantankerous-old-fart point where he just doesn't give a flying whatever anymore and does what pops into his head, even if he never did it before then.
My lingering issues are more aesthetic. I still don't like the opening crawl. I still have a problem with Finn exulting in blasting the Stormtroopers on the flight deck or shooting down the TIE Fighters (these were his brothers-in-arms up until then, also taken as toddlers and indoctrinated by the First Order). I would love to be able to read that into why he took so long to start shooting back on the Falcon, maybe a muttered "don't make me do this..." before he blasted one of the TIE Fighters... *shrug*
--Jonah
Also, @CutThumb, going back to your post that started all this, I think you need to watch that scene again, because Hux says to Snoke that the Republic is protecting the Resistance, not the other way around. Ergo, punishing the public supporters of their enemy to make a point (and since they, at that point, didn't know where the Resistance base was).
I also never had a problem with that being the first time he'd fired Chewie's bowcaster. I have a deeply ingrained weapons etiquette thing where "you don't touch another man's piece" unless invited/offered. I can easily see Han spending decades with Chewie and not even being aware of a subconscious tic where he's got his blaster that he's tweaked just so to make it perfect for him (never mind all the different props we see throughout the films) and he prefers it and Chewie has his and it's his and he doesn't mess with it. He's just gotten to the cantankerous-old-fart point where he just doesn't give a flying whatever anymore and does what pops into his head, even if he never did it before then.
My lingering issues are more aesthetic. I still don't like the opening crawl. I still have a problem with Finn exulting in blasting the Stormtroopers on the flight deck or shooting down the TIE Fighters (these were his brothers-in-arms up until then, also taken as toddlers and indoctrinated by the First Order). I would love to be able to read that into why he took so long to start shooting back on the Falcon, maybe a muttered "don't make me do this..." before he blasted one of the TIE Fighters... *shrug*
--Jonah
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I can't remember the scene exactly, but I got the impression for the first part of the falcon escape, the gunning station wasn't working or on... it just slammed from side to side. It actually reminds me of my buddies steady cam arm... until you turn it on, it just slams side to side, up and down. Once you hit the power and the magnets (or whatever) kick in, the thing just smooooooths out.
I think Rey had to power it on, or had something to do with the shields powers... once it was working the little targeting screen fired up.
I think Rey had to power it on, or had something to do with the shields powers... once it was working the little targeting screen fired up.
As a follow-up, I subsequently noticed that all the fighters were sharing the same hyperspace "tube". Another new precedent. And they were in communication not only with each other, but the Resistance base.
Setting new precedents is fine, but there really wasn't a reason for it. It would have changed nothing about the plot to show it being done they way it's always been done.
Thanks for the explanation!
After a couple more viewings, I feel the scene doesn't make sense without having read the novel, and could be easily excised without affecting a thing. She parks outside town, cut to her walking up to Plutt's window.
Jaitea
Master Member
Phantom Menace
QUI-GON : I can see there's no fooling you...(leans forward) You mustn't
let anyone know about us...we're on our way to Coruscant, the central
system in the Republic, on a very important mission, and it must be kept
secret.
ANAKIN : Coruscant...wow...how did you end up here in the outer rim?
PADME : Our ship was damaged, and we're stranded here until we can repair
it.
J
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