Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release)

Jaitea · Jul 7, 2018

Rian Johnson's attempt at a Star Wars film is equal to a kid on the floor colouring in & not having the sense of staying within the lines,...can't believe there are still people who want to defend this 'film'

Just watched Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri,.....theres a film

J

MrSouthpaw · Jul 8, 2018

Solo4114 said:
While Luke was jarring, especially given who we last saw him as in ROTJ, I thought the character fit, and I thought it was absolutely the best performance that Mark Hamill has given that I've seen (admittedly, I've not watched Corvette Summer, and it's been a long time since I saw Slipstream...). Hamill may also have been jarred by the tone of the character, but he knocked the performance out of the park and completely sold me on where Luke was. When I watched the film -- both in the theater and on home media since -- I never feel as if it's "Mark Hamill as Luke." It feels like "This is Luke, if these events happened to him and if he made these choices." And that's entirely due to Mark, Rian's direction, and the writing. I get why people find this characterization jarring, even shocking, but I think it fits if you can accept the critical moment at the Academy between Luke and Ben as something likely to happen.

Luke was more than jarring. It simply was not Luke Skywalker...period. Even Mark Hamill stated he could not play the character as "Luke", and had to play it as "Jake Skywalker".

I'm reminded of that episode of TNG, Tapestry. Picard dies and meets Q in the afterlife. Picard wants to know what life would be like if he never got stabbed in the heart. And we end up with this underachieving version of Picard, where he basically never did anything because he didn't want to take risks.

That's what seeing this version of "Luke" was like. Seeing the character portrayed in exactly the opposite light. In a wrong light. And I cannot for any reason square "Jake Skywalker" with Luke Skywalker as we last saw him in ROTJ.

Hamill gave an excellent performance because he's a professional and at the end of the day he plays what is written in the script. But, I will never accept a Luke Skywalker that saved Vader, but wants to kill his own nephew. That is simply wrong, no matter how well Hamill played it. And again, he played a character named "Jake Skywalker" because he thought it was wrong too.

Jagjaguwar · Jul 8, 2018

MrSouthpaw said:
Luke was more than jarring. It simply was not Luke Skywalker...period.

Hamill gave an excellent performance because he's a professional and at the end of the day he plays what is written in the script. But, I will never accept a Luke Skywalker that saved Vader, but wants to kill his own nephew. That is simply wrong, no matter how well Hamill played it.

This will probably shock those who’ve been saying I’ve been “blindly defending this film,” despite my previously stated criticisms, but I found this to be one of the weaker parts of the film. I’ll disagree slightly with the quote here though: in my view the way Luke behaves in TLJ is most similar to how he behaves at the very beginning of the OT. Before Yoda calls him reckless and says he must have patience, etc. It’s as if he forgot everything he learned. I agree that it seems like a complete shift for someone who saw a shot at redemption for the face of evil in the galaxy (Vader), to have sensed that his nephew was having a bad dream and that he needed to be killed. It’s mitigated slightly by the “moment of weakness” that Luke himself describes it as, I think. But couldn’t they have followed the same plot path without making Luke seem like he’d learned nothing? For example: we see Ben having a series of nightmares, perhaps Luke even witnesses them like he does in the final film. But then, instead of attempting to kill him in his sleep, what if Luke tried desperately to “save” his nephew in the same way as he saved his father? I think that his failure to do that would have led to a much more powerful outcome that would have fit Luke better as a character.

Krull · Jul 8, 2018

Face it the last jedi is a pile of fresh stinky manure,right out of the bull's backside the film has NOTHING good about it but Luke is the worst shock and I'll admit something here-I wasn't too thrilled with Fisher in The Force Awakens she...wasn't right and still wasn't right in the cow pile that is eight.

But Ford fixed that,he WAS Han again and that along with a fair decent film made me pass over Leiah being weirdly out of character.

In eight we're in the middle of Rome burning and Luke is the last straw before you lose your marbles and start looking for somebody to hang....

Mr Mold Maker · Jul 9, 2018

Defend the film all you want, but this constant narrative being pushed by a few that it’s the fan base’s fault for everything bad that’s ever happened in these actors and actresses lives is so over played and incorrect. Lucas Film, Kathleen Kennedy, Rian Johnson. They messed up here. They messed up badly, and in their damage control they’ve bitten hands that would have fed them for years. You can make as many comic strips as you want, they can point the finger and a mirror at us, but they divided the fan base themselves.

There are bad apples in every single area of the internet, but ask yourself why you aren’t seeing this toxicity claimed so loudly in the fanbases of the DCEU, the MCU, the X-men Universe. Why aren’t their actors and actresses leaving social media? What are the film makers and fan bases doing differently? It’s there, there is no doubt about it, but it isn’t being used as an excuse for bad filmmaking or to drum up controversy, or for Retweets.

Could you imagine for a second, if in Infinity War they had Thanos come out, after being built up as this big bad, only to get killed off instantly to “subvert your expectations” and “divide the audience?” Then imagine it not performing as expected and the higher ups of the MCU blaming the FANS for it? Imagine people who commented on something as innocent as Scarlett Witch’s changing accent being ridiculed as misogynists. Could you imagine Kevin Feige coming out and saying only “real fans” would “get it?” On TOP of that, imagine -whether you liked the film or not- catching **** from the self perceived “real fans” because the film divided the fanbase so deeply. Hard to imagine right? It’s because Marvel has a track record of competence and a great relationship with its fan base.

egosheep · Jul 10, 2018

Thanos is destroying Thor's ship at the first frame of IW. The FO chases the Raddus for 30+ hours. How about having something happen, since this is a middle trilogy SW movie and not a 16 episode TV season?

Solo4114 · Jul 11, 2018

I found that to be the weakest choice in the film, actually. I mean, I can kind of see what Johnson might've been going for with it, but I still think it would've worked better with some more excitement. My sense is that he was trying to create basically a submarine movie. You know, like, Das Boot or something. Create a sense of cramped, difficult conditions, foreboding death, and desperation that drives people to make stupid decisions. But I think visually it just...didn't really work. It might work better if they were in some densely packed system with nebulae or moons or asteroids to hide behind, and they kept playing a cat-and-mouse game with the FO. I also don't know that I'd have used fuel as the thing that they're in short supply on. Engines overheating, hyperdrives being overtaxed, something like that. Star Wars works better when it's less...hmm...definite. Sticking the ticking clock at 18 hrs counting down might create a kind of tension, but it ends up not working as well because the rest of the film doesn't effectively handle the passage of time, the same way none of the other films have effectively handled the passage of time, especially in comparison to the apparently vast distances they travel and the fact that we have no idea how hyperspace works.

The choice to have the action be a kind of non-action/static chase intensifies the focus on the character drama onboard the Raddus, but I think that drama could have come through more effectively if there had been a bit more action and external pressure, even escalation of external stakes.

Inquisitor Peregrinus · Jul 11, 2018

I think it was the cinematography and the time limit, combined, that were the worst aspects of the chase. Have them floor it in realspace, since they can't outrun them in hyperspace, and express concern about how long till power is exhausted or reactors go critical or whatever... And then use the camera to create dynamism in a straightline chase. The opening shot of Star Wars, for instance, had the Tantive IV and the Devastator moving along at a fair lick. To say nothing of ROTJ. Some stationary objects to impart a better sense of relative velocities would have been good -- maybe even heading into a more accurate asteroid belt to try to get some rocks between them and the First Order and prevent the FO from microjumping in front of them. Of course, now I've also reminded myself of the asteroid ring defense in Space Battleship Yamato. *heh*

Jagjaguwar · Jul 11, 2018

Yep. I haven’t really seen anyone who said they liked the whole “slow speed police chase” part, even the most staunch defenders of the film.

I don’t know, if I was deciding things I would have gone with the Resistance jumping to hyperspace again, and again, and again, with the added tension each time of the emptiness of space, juuuuuust long enough to make them (and the audience) wonder if they’d finally gotten away clean. The submarine movie idea is completely on point. It could’ve been the same tension of the moments just after a crash five, waiting for the depth charges to come. “Maybe this time we lost them!”

Then it could’ve just been a series of variations on the theme of Rogue One’s awesome surprise hyperspace reentry attack, from the the end of that film. Maybe sometimes the FO comes in from one angle, or another, or all sides. The resistance ships keep jumping in and out of hyperspace, some getting picked off as they go. Ugh, just thinking about this bums me out. Instead, we get a police chase at 5 miles per hour. Ugh.

robn1 · Jul 11, 2018

Didn't the Resistance ships only have enough fuel for one more hyperspace jump, and they didn't want to waste it knowing they could be tracked?

Submarines in space is what they did in Wrath Of Khan, the nebula made it work. But if the FO can see them from the window that doesn't work.

Something to make the chase feel like it had speed would have helped. That's what Lucas was so good at in the OT. The trench run wasn't just a riff on Dam Busters, it added a sense of speed and danger that you wouldn't get if they just skimmed the Death Star surface to the target. Same with the asteroids, and the forest chase, the obstacles add to the speed and danger. The TLJ chase was more like a car chase on a highway with no turns or other cars in the way, for an hour and a half :sleep

DARKSIDE72 · Jul 11, 2018

I see his pathetic attempt for a SW film as the kid on the playground who thought he had to fart but crapped his pants. Nothing to be taken seriously as he turned the OT into a slapstick comedy. He's the worst director/writer ever. Who sets out to polorize half an audience...? **** him and KK for their bizarre desisions.

Jaitea said:
Rian Johnson's attempt at a Star Wars film is equal to a kid on the floor colouring in & not having the sense of staying within the lines,...can't believe there are still people who want to defend this 'film'

Just watched Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri,.....theres a film

J

- - - Updated - - -

I see his pathetic attempt for a SW film as the kid on the playground who thought he had to fart but crapped his pants. Nothing to be taken seriously as he turned the OT into a slapstick comedy. He's the worst director/writer ever. Who sets out to polorize half an audience...? **** him and KK for their bizarre desisions.

Jaitea said:
Rian Johnson's attempt at a Star Wars film is equal to a kid on the floor colouring in & not having the sense of staying within the lines,...can't believe there are still people who want to defend this 'film'

Just watched Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri,.....theres a film

J

Inquisitor Peregrinus · Jul 11, 2018

robn1 said:
Didn't the Resistance ships only have enough fuel for one more hyperspace jump, and they didn't want to waste it knowing they could be tracked?

No, they didn't want to jump again cuz they'd just be tracked again. They decided to make a sublight run for it, since they were faster than the FO ships, and hoped that would buy some time to figure something out.

The biggest problem was that it was a fast chase, getting ever faster, but without external referents, there was no way to tell.

JPH · Jul 12, 2018

The chase was absurd. The rebels took out a dreadnaught. They were attacked by the First Order, who blew out the bridge for Leia Poppins.

Seriously.

Blow out the engines. As if the entire First order isn't mobile...the slower ships can catch up. The First Order pulled back because they were worried about getting outrun!?! Makes absolutely no sense. You can't jump some ships past them?

The entire concept is ridiculous/dumb/stupid. It's like grade school kids thought it up.

The Tantive jumped to get out of Dodge. It takes sometime to jump again. Not a fair comparison. And the reminder shots of the Raddus getting pot shot, just barely in laser range confirmed how dumb it was. All those Star Destroyer, and for 18 hours TFA wasted resources chasing the rebels...and then the transports from the Raddus were taken down, like a transport isn't faster? Too many holes to defend. You got a fancy ship with shield tech, and you skimp on your military transports...

two incompetent armies killing each other, making arms dealers rich.

Not excusable.

laszlo · Jul 12, 2018

JPH said:
The chase was absurd. The rebels took out a dreadnaught. They were attacked by the First Order, who blew out the bridge for Leia Poppins.

Seriously.

Blow out the engines. As if the entire First order isn't mobile...the slower ships can catch up. The First Order pulled back because they were worried about getting outrun!?! Makes absolutely no sense. You can't jump some ships past them?

The entire concept is ridiculous/dumb/stupid. It's like grade school kids thought it up.

The Tantive jumped to get out of Dodge. It takes sometime to jump again. Not a fair comparison. And the reminder shots of the Raddus getting pot shot, just barely in laser range confirmed how dumb it was. All those Star Destroyer, and for 18 hours TFA wasted resources chasing the rebels...and then the transports from the Raddus were taken down, like a transport isn't faster? Too many holes to defend. You got a fancy ship with shield tech, and you skimp on your military transports...

two incompetent armies killing each other, making arms dealers rich.

Not excusable.

Too much thought man!!!
It's just the most badly written Star Wars film ever made - end of. Fact.

JPH · Jul 12, 2018

laszlo said:
Too much thought man!!!
It's just the most badly written Star Wars film ever made - end of. Fact.

Some folks didn't give it any thought.

As I was watching TLJ, especially after the opening ("brave rebels fleeing, but they actually attack"), I wished I could stop the movie and write down some predictions, like, "bombers gonna blow each other up," or, "Luke is gonna be a d-bag," or "Rose is gonna fall in love." Sadly, if I started picking the dumbest, worst possible outcome, RJ did too.

Nitz146 · Jul 12, 2018

JPH said:
The chase was absurd. The rebels took out a dreadnaught. They were attacked by the First Order, who blew out the bridge for Leia Poppins.

Seriously.

Blow out the engines. As if the entire First order isn't mobile...the slower ships can catch up. The First Order pulled back because they were worried about getting outrun!?! Makes absolutely no sense. You can't jump some ships past them?

The entire concept is ridiculous/dumb/stupid. It's like grade school kids thought it up.

The Tantive jumped to get out of Dodge. It takes sometime to jump again. Not a fair comparison. And the reminder shots of the Raddus getting pot shot, just barely in laser range confirmed how dumb it was. All those Star Destroyer, and for 18 hours TFA wasted resources chasing the rebels...and then the transports from the Raddus were taken down, like a transport isn't faster? Too many holes to defend. You got a fancy ship with shield tech, and you skimp on your military transports...

two incompetent armies killing each other, making arms dealers rich.

Not excusable.

It's still not clear to me why the resistance came out of hyperspace in the middle of nowhere. Normally when ships jump to hyperspace they are travelling somewhere; e.g., a planet. If they were heading to Crait, why didn't they come out of hyperspace next to the planet?

JPH · Jul 13, 2018

We would have missed out on an 18 hour chase!!! Rose falling in love! Leia in a coma!

The extended version actually has, "18 Hours Aboard he Supremacy," documentary. 18 hours of unedited movie magic! Hux in the bathroom, practicing angry faces in the mirror, Kylo's last meal with Snoke, where he keeps turning Snoke's silverware around, Phasma confronting people, asking if they lowered the shields on the Planetkillah...a rollicking good hoot!

sztriki · Jul 13, 2018

JPH said:
Kylo's last meal with Snoke, where he keeps turning Snoke's silverware around

Okay, that one got me. :lol

mkstewartesq · Jul 13, 2018

Nitz146 said:
It's still not clear to me why the resistance came out of hyperspace in the middle of nowhere. Normally when ships jump to hyperspace they are travelling somewhere; e.g., a planet. If they were heading to Crait, why didn't they come out of hyperspace next to the planet?

I don't know if it is mentioned in the film or in the novel why they did this (I can look later at the novel) - but I don't think it is always the case that the Rebels "meet up" at a planet when fleeing. See ESB, where there is a reference to "meeting up at the rendezvous point" when leaving Hoth. When we next see the fleet gathered at the end, there's no planet around, only open space.

M

greedo737 · Jul 13, 2018

Or a planet off screen

Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release)

What did you think of Star Wars: The Last Jedi?

It was great. Loved it. Don't miss it at the theaters.

It was good. Liked it very much. Worth the theater visit.

It was okay. Not too pleased with it. Could watch it at the cinema once or wait for home video.

It was disappointing. Watch it on home video instead.

It was bad. Don't waste your time with it.

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