Did...did you even watch the movies? There's pretty clear religious subtext.
Not only does Tagge refer to the Force as a religion, but Tarkin does as well, referring to Vader as the only thing left of the Jedi religion. The Force is not just meant to be a used for spiritual subtext, but as an analogue of religion too. One of the most famous sayings in Star Wars, "May the Force be with you" is actually very close to Catholicism's "The Lord be with you." You never hear those words uttered by the Empire. Ever. They don't acknowledge the Force as anything but superstition. They're agnostic towards the Force. The Rebellion is the one who actively sees the Force as something needing acknowledgement. It's a religion in the same vein as, say, Buddhism. It's non-deity, but still has people who follow its will and meditate upon it.Yes....yes I did watch the movies, many, many times.
I get the spiritual subtext, I just don't see the Empire as anti religious within the films. The rebellion doesn't have a religious motivation, and the Empire's actions against them aren't based crushing a religion. Are there examples of it in the OT I missed?
Not only does Tagge refer to the Force as a religion, but Tarkin does as well, referring to Vader as the only thing left of the Jedi religion. The Force is not just meant to be a used for spiritual subtext, but as an analogue of religion too. One of the most famous sayings in Star Wars, "May the Force be with you" is actually very close to Catholicism's "The Lord be with you." You never hear those words uttered by the Empire. Ever. They don't acknowledge the Force as anything but superstition. They're agnostic towards the Force. The Rebellion is the one who actively sees the Force as something needing acknowledgement. It's a religion in the same vein as, say, Buddhism. It's non-deity, but still has people who follow its will and meditate upon it.
@Bones_68
Han is not a member of the Empire and thus does not bolster CT's argument. Han also comes around to saying "May the Force be with you" making him an even worse example of an anti-Force person.
NERDS!!!
True, but I only posted the Han clip to reinforce the idea that the Force was in fact viewed as a religion in the movie. We seem to agree on that much.
But it's no accident that the only two Imperials who discuss the Force (Motti and Tarkin) in the first movie do so dismissively while proudly boasting that the Death Star is now the "ultimate power in the universe."
Motti: "Your sad devotion to that ancient religion..."
Tarkin: "The Jedi are extinct. Their fire has gone out of the universe. You, my friend, are all that's left of their religion."
As you said, it doesn't mean every single Imperial is anti-Force. Among individuals, your mileage may vary, obviously. But based on the limited information Lucas provides in the movie, I don't think it's a stretch to suggest that the Imperials have, in general, traded religious faith for technological force and brute strength.
Luke is the only one people say " may the Force be with you" to
Yes, I am fully in agreement that Force use is an analog for religion. And that Motti is fully dismissive of it. I wonder how he regards it after the Force-choke.
Tarkin just thinks Force users are a dead or dying breed. He acknowledges it's power by telling Vader to release the Force-choke. He also acknowledges that Vader may be sensing OWK through the Force. It's right after the line you quote in the movie. I don't see how those acknowledgements can lead to a conclusion that he dismisses it.
I don't think Luke should show up again for Episode 9 as a Force ghost. Rey is already a master so what would be the point of Luke needing to show up?
It's gonna be bad. So very bad. : (
Mr. Webber do you have a link?
This is as good a place as any to leave this.
https://youtu.be/J-h-_zDyVck
Yeah, with Tarkin, I think it depends on how you want to read him. We know he's a well schooled bureaucrat. He likely has a strong enough sense of self-preservation to know that you never mock Vader to his face (case in point, Motti). So, when we get this line from Tarkin...
"You, my friend, are all that's left of that ancient religion."
...it strikes me as a diplomatic way of saying, "I'm fond of my windpipe so I will show you a certain amount of respect as long as we have to work together." It's not blatantly disrespectful but the "ancient religion" part sounds dismissive and I suspect "friend" is completely insincere.
But that's just me filling in some blanks for the fun of it.
EDIT: Actually, Tarkin doesn't use the word "ancient," the line is:
"The Jedi are extinct. Their fire has gone out of the universe. You, my friend, are all that's left of their religion."
So I still think it shows that he doesn't regard the Force too highly.