Debate! Chrome tape on the ANH Graflex

SethS

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Not since rivets vs. screws is there potential for such a heated debate!

As saber parts became known, the notion of chrome tape covering the Graflex logo became known. At first, it was thought that the ANH saber had a single small strip and the ESB had the wider textured tape.

As better images surfaced and more investigation was done, it seemed the textured tape was actually only on the ranch display saber, and that the thin strip was used in ESB. Knowing what to look for, it was retroactively decided that the ANH version had no tape at all. After the toe pic and other BHS images were uncovered it looked as if nothing was there.

But now there is a notion that a wide strip of chrome tape may have covered the entire clamp. Most of the photos we see are blown out somewhat. While we could see the contrast of a strip, and entirely covered clamp band may not be as obvious.

The case FOR TAPE:

1. Roger Christen has recently said tape was used in ANH to hide the logo
2. The Obi-Wan saber as seen in the Chronicles book makes use of chrome tape on the clamp band
3. The V3/shared stunt saber also has chrome tape covering the band

The case AGAINST TAPE:

1. Roger Christen has contradicted himself many times, he's old, it was 40 years ago
2. It is not known if the SS/V3 and Obi-Wan hero had the tape during filming, or if it was added later
3. people who have spent MANY hundreds of hours of doing research like Tcrooz and Chaim are unconvinced and they'd know better than anyone

Photographic evidence is inconclusive... have a look:

anh1.jpg

Here we see an angle where the holes on the clamp should be visible, but they are not. To my eye, the clamp also looks marginally shinier.

tunisiafilming.jpg

Again-- the clamp finish is shinier than the rest of the graflex. Though Graflexes found in the wild tend to vary in finish as well.

graf.jpg

A blow up of an image we've seen before, but has now been released at a higher res... the holes are NOT covered, but the logo and engraved lines are so faint it would seem like they are showing through tape.

I slapped some tape on my vintage and got a very similar look:

test1.jpgtest2.jpg

But now this image shows not only the holes, but also virtually no contrast or surface difference between the clamp and Graflex body:

nocontrast.jpeg

The same could be said for the infamous toe pic:

Episode_4_LukesToePic.jpg~original.jpeg

My personal verdict?

I joke about rivets vs. screws, but I think the truth about THAT case is the same here. I think there are examples of both.

We've assumed very few Graflexes were used for ANH, but if Roger's memory can be trusted, he's said recently that he made 5-6 for the film. 2 went to Tunisia. I would assume some went to California and some stayed in London. This could easily account for the clamp box itself shifting position so frequently. I think tape was used on some of these sabers, but not on others.
 
I will say that on camera vs in person the tape looks terrible. No doubt that's why Roger removed it from his own. It makes the saber look very cheep. After my test I immediately pulled it off.
 
Well what about this... this is the screen-used V2 clamp:

V2 clamp.jpg

In these particular images could it not be argued that it would appear that the clamp *could* be covered in tape when we know for a fact that it is not? In the image on the left the lines appear to be completely non-existent. In the image on the right the lines appear to be very faint, as do the letters.

I would agree - photographic evidence *is* inconclusive.
 
attachment.php


The holes look too tidy, except for the chip to the chrome on the right one. ...or I'll grant you that that chip could be a tear in the tape.

attachment.php


With the top half in this position, the horizontal clamp slot is totally filled from behind with the top tube. The upper square hole is in the shadow of Mark's pinky, and the bottom square hole is totally filled from behind with the bottom tube, and washed out.
 
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I say no tape. With as much as these things would have been swung around on Mark's belt and all of the handling, one would think that there would be scratches and indentations in the tape. Everything looks too clean.

Sent from my SM-J700P using Tapatalk
 
I have to say after Roy pointed out the tear near the right square hole, I believe there is tape on this saber
764f930cf9b2deaa045caf33671211a0.jpg



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The slightly more shiny argument doesn't work, IMO, because the bare clamp IS slightly more shiny all by itself.
 
With the top half in this position, the horizontal clamp slot is totally filled from behind with the top tube. The upper square hole is in the shadow of Mark's pinky, and the bottom square hole is totally filled from behind with the bottom tube, and washed out.

CIMG1573.JPG

Seems to check out, but with the horizontal slot totally filled, the upper tube is "disengaged" from the clamp, and the upper square hole is open. Can't say for sure that I see any evidence of that in the shadow of his pinky. I'm not saying that it isn't possible, I just can't see it.
 
With all due respect to Mr. Christian, I really think he can't be relied on for accurate info as to what he did over 40 years ago. His memory seems spotty a lot of the time and sometimes he says things that sound like they came straight from these forums. There's just been too much time passed.
 
View attachment 732152
Can't say for sure that I see any evidence of that in the shadow of his pinky. I'm not saying that it isn't possible, I just can't see it.
I can't say I see it either, just that's where it would be. Bottom one is washed out, top is in a shadow, that could be why we aren't seeing the square holes in that pic.
If you rotated your saber a bit more to the right like in the pic, the square holes would blend in with the edge of the clamp. Add harsher lighting and I think they'd wash out and disappear.
 
http://www.therpf.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=732123&d=1495995115&thumb=1

The holes look too tidy, except for the chip to the chrome on the right one. ...or I'll grant you that that chip could be a tear in the tape.

http://www.therpf.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=732121&d=1495947743

With the top half in this position, the horizontal clamp slot is totally filled from behind with the top tube. The upper square hole is in the shadow of Mark's pinky, and the bottom square hole is totally filled from behind with the bottom tube, and washed out.

Don't get me started on how I see a PCB under those bubbles... I;m sure it's just a reflection... :behave
 
I vote chrome tape on at least some of the sabers. The finish on the clamps looks too....cheap...in some of these pics for me to believe it's the factory finish. Combine that with knowing that the shared stunt had tape on it and I think it's very likely that some had it.

Not that I would ever put any on my replicas. It looks terrible.
 
The lighting in some of the photos could have easily washed out finer details, making there appear to be no holes from having tape on the clamp. The fact that the clamp lines and Graflex letters are visible at all is a strong indication that there was no tape on the clamp on these props as pictured. If there were tape, and even if it had been worn from handling to the point that the letters underneath started showing up through it as in SethS's pics above, it seems likely that the camera would have totally washed those details out. Also, as was mentioned above, the cleanliness of the lines around the rectangular cutouts in the clamp is a strong indication against tape. The anomaly by the right hole is probably just a ding in the chrome finish. Why would the propmaker go out of his way to finely cut out the tape from those little holes anyway? It takes a lot of attention with a very sharp exacto knife to cleanly cut out those rectangular holes in the clamp. Why would the builder go to that trouble for something that isn't going to be seen on screen?

Yes, there was tape on the Obi ANH saber, as seen in the reference photos. It is entirely plausible it was also put on some of the Graflexes as well. But the screenshots and reference photos of the Graflex hilts don't provide any strong evidence that tape was present there too. Roger Christian does recall putting tape on the clamps to cover the Graflex letters. Perhaps he did put it on the Luke sabers too at first, but it quickly wore off or was removed (intentionally or unintentionally) before and during filming. In the reference photos of the Obi ANH, there is barely anything left of the clamp tape.

Regarding there being a PCB under the bubbles, the toe pic provides the strongest evidence against this. You can see through the bubble strip to the inside groove of the clamp, not to mention you can also see that rectangular-shaped indentation directly underneath on the other side of the bubble strip.
 
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