Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release)

What did you think of Star Wars: The Last Jedi?

  • It was great. Loved it. Don't miss it at the theaters.

    Votes: 154 26.6%

  • It was good. Liked it very much. Worth the theater visit.

    Votes: 135 23.4%

  • It was okay. Not too pleased with it. Could watch it at the cinema once or wait for home video.

    Votes: 117 20.2%

  • It was disappointing. Watch it on home video instead.

    Votes: 70 12.1%

  • It was bad. Don't waste your time with it.

    Votes: 102 17.6%
  • Total voters
    578
I love how passionate this fandom is. It would have been impossible for anyone to make a movie that fulfilled every fan's list of what they wanted it to be. In that spirit, I'm going to carry on with the "beer talk" trend. :cheers I respect that this movie was not what many people wanted.


-Temptation never goes away. To say that Luke overcame his temptation in RotJ and therefore should never be tempted again, by the same thing or not, is the actual disservice to him as a character. Obi-Wan felt temptation toward a romantic relationship. Mace Windu felt (and practically gave into) temptation to kill Palpatine without trial, despite that not being the Jedi way. And Luke felt temptation upon discovering that the makings of a virtual repeat of his father was right in front of him (nephew or not), and yet he still resisted temptation. If anything, that is truer to the Luke we know from RotJ than anything else.

-My opinion: "Laser sword" is established slang for lightsaber in canon. The fact that Luke used it in a sarcastic line is not that great of a surprise, especially given his lack of reverence for all things Jedi at the time.

-So many people are doing to Luke as a character exactly what Luke did to himself: thinking of him as "Luke Skywalker, legend." I want to be crystal clear: if you are among those that wanted to see more of "Luke Skywalker, legend" (i.e. the hero of this new trilogy as well), you are justified in wanting that, and therefore justified in your disappointment in not receiving it. But that does not make TLJ a poorly written movie, even though there are several other things about the film that could definitely have been better.
 
astroboy said:
You know the other thing I can't figure out? When Leia and Han were talking, she was like, "we didn't fail our son, Snoke seduced him to the dark side"

But how did he do that exactly? Was he a counselor at Luke's camp for young jedi? Did they know him?

Or was he just randomly putting dark thoughts in his head from across the galaxy?
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That *is* kind of a good point that would have been cool to have clarification on. I guess I don't *need* to see how Snoke seduced Kylo, but it may have made for a little clarity...
 
alienscollection.com said:
That *is* kind of a good point that would have been cool to have clarification on. I guess I don't *need* to see how Snoke seduced Kylo, but it may have made for a little clarity...
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Well we do know that Snoke has a power of invading minds and projecting those minds in a reality state.. so maybe, he did the same with Kilo..

I believe, Anakin's dreams were influenced by a similar power Sidious had
 
I wonder how long Luke's school for wayward Jedi was in existence before it was destroyed. Like, was there a day when he taught, "Being Seduced by the Dark Side 101" and Ben missed that lesson? You'd think a new Jedi school would kind of make that part of its core curriculum... At the very least, you'd think there was time for Luke to teach his own history and warn his students about the temptation. Either way, Snoke must have really gotten into Ben's head...
 
I know not ALL scenes need explanation.

However, I believe, too many scenes without explanations, can have some people feel..not a good movie.

- - - Updated - - -

alienscollection.com said:
I wonder how long Luke's school for wayward Jedi was in existence before it was destroyed. Like, was there a day when he taught, "Being Seduced by the Dark Side 101" and Ben missed that lesson? You'd think a new Jedi school would kind of make that part of its core curriculum... At the very least, you'd think there was time for Luke to teach his own history and warn his students about the temptation. Either way, Snoke must have really gotten into Ben's head...
Click to expand...

"Ok class, this is a lightsaber"

"Ben... stop swinging that saber at other pupils"

" no Ben... we dont Force choke the weird help"

"what am I going to do with you... you just dont listen"

"Ben.. stop scarring your sister Rey"

" I've had it about up to here with you Ben...one day Ill walk in your tent and scare the crap out of you...like you did your sister"
 
joshvanrad said:
It just isn't my job to put together a tight, cohesive story. You do that in the writers room and I pay my money to see it. I shouldn't have to leave a theater picking out the parts that worked from the parts that didn't just to have a pleasant viewing experience. It is either well-crafted or it isn't. Again, and I can't reiterate this enough... it is not about individual plot points or having my expectations subverted. Everyone loves a good twist (read: expectations subverted), but it has to be done well in order to enjoy it. This movie had ABSOLUTELY AMAZING elements in it. Like someone else said, someone will make a crazy-good fan edit of this film. But the way it stands right now it is just a sloppy film with a lot of forced humor and bad writing.

Luke dying didn't subtract from the film. Leia using the force did not subtract from the film. Humor does not subtract from the film. Having Snoke killed abruptly does not subtract from the film. Surprise twists don't subtract from the film. Having the good guys appear to be ineffective does not subtract from the film. BUT if you want to do all of those things you have to make it work. You can't just toss it in there and think that makes for an interesting story. Things should tie together. It should feel like one solid movie from front to back. People should have motivations and consequences. I am a firm believer that in films EVERYTHING that happens should have an impact. EVERYTHING should play into other parts of the story. This movie simply didn't have that.
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Hunk a Junk said:
But it IS equal! Luke was in the exact same conflict: a close relative turning (or turned) to evil and he had to react. In ROTJ, Luke AVOIDED having to kill his relative. He disobeyed his masters who wanted him to do it. He gave himself up. He refused to fight. He only DID fight to defend himself and then only got angry when Vader threatened his sister. Even then Luke pulled back, resisted temptation and won. But apparently after going through ALL THAT -- having been proven wonderfully right where even his masters were wrong -- Luke forgets that and considers (yes, even for a moment) that he should kill his nephew. It IS equal. It's TOTALLY equal. It's the same exact conflict!
Click to expand...

How did this monumental flaw in the writing get through to the final film?
This is the only thing that smacks of either pure sloppy writing or complete disregard for verisimilitude. This is my only real gripe was this film - unfortunately everything else hangs of this failure.
 
laszlo said:
How did this monumental flaw in the writing get through to the final film?
This is the only thing that smacks of either pure sloppy writing or complete disregard for verisimilitude. This is my only real gripe was this film - unfortunately everything else hangs of this failure.
Click to expand...

I have had the same question, and I've given it quite a bit of thought over the past 24 hours and this is what I've come up with.

Clearly, they wanted to do something completely different than audiences were expecting... and they did that. I think that much is evident. However, the degree of effectiveness is really what is up for discussion here. Personally, I don't think their twists were very effective. For instance, during the Leia Poppins portion, when it shows her pulled into the vacuum of space I audibly let out an "aah" as I felt this sadness over the death of Carrie and seeing Leia killed off in the film. It was a very genuine emotional moment. But when the camera pulls back and she starts flying through space it completely pulled me out of the movie and ruined that emotional impact. I stand by the fact that they could have made her force powers work in the context of that scene, but it just wasn't executed well enough to be believable and fitting of the film. It mirrors the way I feel about the rest of the film; Leia is pulled into the vacuum of space presumed dead for ONLY AN INSTANT for what could have been a major impact, but then cheapened by the fact that she just flies back to the ship and it is as if nothing ever happened. We start at point A so many times in the movie to end up back at point A without any consequence of major impact that it cheapens all of the GREAT underlying themes.

How did it happen? Well, it would seem that the movie would work in concept. I'm sure much of it sounded great in the writer's room, but the way it showed up on film just doesn't play well. It's like they pitched a bunch of amazing ideas in a brainstorming session, and then someone was like "But how do we knit all of this together in 2 hours," and they didn't workshop it much past that.

Someone a few comments back said something to the effect of "It's OK to think about the movie. People get upset about being spoonfed all of the details." So I gave that some thought too, and I can't even say the film excelled on letting us connect that dots. There are a lot of points with heavy exposition, so it's not even like they gave us a movie to think about and dive into. Rian gives us these elements that appear, at face value, to be thought-provoking, but then completely deadens any deeper value by forcing exposition immediately after. You'll notice it during Poe attacking the surface guns of the dreadnaught, the Finn and Rose mission, and the Holdo hyperspace jump. It is like he had no confidence that his audience would be smart enough to figure out their motivations or why they were doing what they were doing. Either that, or it is just that messy, so he needs it to patch up the lack of cohesive writing. I think it could be a bit of both columns.
 
Bryancd said:
The fact that it’s his nephew is immaterial to his brief consideration. He looked into Kylo’s future standing over his bed and saw the death and destruction to come. What he saw made him feel for a moment he couldn’t reverse this possible future. It could have been a random Padawan or his nephew, the outcome of doing nothing is still the same.
Click to expand...

With Vader, Luke didn't even need to look into the future. He KNEW what Vader was capable of -- and yet he still rejected murder and chose a different path. The stakes were way higher, and yet Luke still didn't accept murder. The fact that it's his nephew isn't immaterial, it's the entire point. It was someone he loved and Luke DID need to do something. It's just that Johnson's decision for Luke to (however briefly) contemplate murder -- especially when Kylo hadn't even physically done anything wrong yet -- was wrong for the character in that it went directly back to the same conflict Luke already resolved from the OT. Johnson could've picked another conflict, another flaw, but he didn't. It was a creative mistake. A big one.

Bryancd said:
At this point I would have taken that beer and dumped it in your head yelling “Get a grip, man!”
Click to expand...

If you're the one dumping the beer, that's pretty conclusive evidence about which of us is losing their grip. :cheers:cheers:cheers :lol It's all good, man. I'm enjoying the debate.
 
rileyreplicas said:
For me it was Luke mocking the lightsaber. When he was young he was all about the lightsaber, Was given his Fathers saber by Obi Wan, lost it in the fight with Vader, went and made a new one because, well ALL Jedis had have them! Well, he is now an old man and realizes it is just a "toy" compared to the real power of the Force, that he won't even bother calling it by it's proper name. At least that was my take away with what he said :)
Click to expand...
Exactly what I got from it too.

Bryancd said:
Page turners they are not!
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I like this quote. Not only does it imply that Yoda knew of Ach-To, but at some point in his 900 year life span, he visited it and read the ancient texts.

alienscollection.com said:
Y'know, between Anakin and all his murderin', Luke and the death star, and Kylo, the Skywalker bloodline sure has killed a lot of folks...
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Star+wars_9b2497_6121824.jpg
 
Bryancd said:
LOL! I know this wasn’t your intention but I consider the content on YouTube the video equivalent of Reddit. :)
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Really? I love the way you just dismiss the legitimate reviews of people just because they are not in favour of your house of cards. I have not seen one rant on You Tube that wasnt part of a legitimate review. Your attitude is understandable I guess, denial is the first stage of grief and loss.
 
Hunk a Junk said:
With Vader, Luke didn't even need to look into the future. He KNEW what Vader was capable of -- and yet he still rejected murder and chose a different path. The stakes were way higher, and yet Luke still didn't accept murder. The fact that it's his nephew isn't immaterial, it's the entire point. It was someone he loved and Luke DID need to do something. It's just that Johnson's decision for Luke to (however briefly) contemplate murder -- especially when Kylo hadn't even physically done anything wrong yet -- was wrong for the character in that it went directly back to the same conflict Luke already resolved from the OT. Johnson could've picked another conflict, another flaw, but he didn't. It was a creative mistake. A big one.



If you're the one dumping the beer, that's pretty conclusive evidence about which of us is losing their grip. :cheers:cheers:cheers :lol It's all good, man. I'm enjoying the debate.
Click to expand...

It's the classic philosophical debate of if you could go back in time and kill Hitler as a child would you? Could you? Should you?

And Luke was a New York minute away from killing his Dad before he paused and didn't. Same here, nice symetry.
 
Last edited:
astroboy said:
You know the other thing I can't figure out? When Leia and Han were talking, she was like, "we didn't fail our son, Snoke seduced him to the dark side"

But how did he do that exactly? Was he a counselor at Luke's camp for young jedi? Did they know him?

Or was he just randomly putting dark thoughts in his head from across the galaxy?
Click to expand...

I raised the same point a few pages back, its not important to the story, apparently.
 
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