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  1. RPF Premium Member
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    2 Weeks Ago  Nov 27, 2017, 12:58 PM - Upside-down Kobold? #1

    (If this has been discussed elsewhere already, please let me know, I just haven't seen it.)

    While watching ESB the other day, I happened to catch this moment when Luke cuts himself down in the Wampa cave.

    That looks a lot like the orientation of the Kobold clip updside down as on the Skywalker Ranch saber. I put one of the screencaps in black and white cause sometimes it's easier to evaluate. That darker area towards the top would seem to indicate to me it's recessed matching the upside down Kobold clip, but I suppose it could just be a lighting illusion as well.

    Would love other opinions.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by ms80444; 1 Week Ago at 12:37 PM.
  2. RPF Premium Member laszlo's Avatar
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    2 Weeks Ago  Nov 27, 2017, 1:31 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #2

    interesting!
  3. RPF Premium Member
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    2 Weeks Ago  Nov 27, 2017, 1:37 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #3

    laszlo said: View Post
    interesting!
    I certainly thought so! There are some interesting implications *if* others agree (strong emphasis on the “if” part).
  4. SethS's Avatar
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    1 Week Ago  Nov 27, 2017, 3:38 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #4

    Whoa!

    Well, the wampa cave saber we famously look at for detail is most likely a stunt, given there are BTS shots of a PA holding it by the blade in the snow to shake it as Luke calls it to his hand. If that close up was second unit, it;s very possible a different stunt was used in Luke's hand.

    It COULD be the ranch saber.... or, maybe every other hero had the Kobold clip upside down and it was just that single stunt that got the close-up that had it the way we all know.
    @Sym-Cha @teecrooz @halliwax @roygilsing @veektohr @thd9791 @scottjua

    What do you guys think?
  5. RPF Premium Member
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    1 Week Ago  Nov 27, 2017, 3:47 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #5

    @SethS - that’s sort of originally what had me looking. I wondered if the upside down, which we all accepted as wrong could possible be right, and the “correct” way was actually the one off. But i can’t find any evidence of any picture or anywhere else in the movie where it’s clear it’s upside down.

    Ive also made a bunch of other observtions/things for discussion that I’ll post in another thread once I figure out a way to compile everything clearly.
  6. halliwax's Avatar
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    1 Week Ago  Nov 27, 2017, 4:49 PM - Upside-down Kobold? #6

    I saw this at lunch time, I have a good theory about the ranch saber being the wampa cave saber (not the saber luke swings at the wampa)

    But the saber in the snow, that saber is also the one thrown to him (u can see the black screw in the clamp.)

    Iím off to the hospital now, once my world calms down Iíll be back with my wampa cave theories.

    I donít want to be a negative nelly so before I say anything I want to look at these on my computer screen rather then my beat up old phone




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  7. halliwax's Avatar
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    1 Week Ago  Nov 27, 2017, 4:50 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #7

    MS, do u have a picture of this actual scene? Is this when Luke leans up to the ceiling to cut himself free?


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  8. RPF Premium Member
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    1 Week Ago  Nov 27, 2017, 4:59 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #8

    halliwax said: View Post
    I saw this at lunch time, I have a good theory about the ranch saber being the wampa cave saber (not the saber luke swings at the wampa)

    But the saber in the snow, that saber is also the one thrown to him (u can see the black screw in the clamp.)

    Iím off to the hospital now, once my world calms down Iíll be back with my wampa cave theories.

    I donít want to be a negative nelly so before I say anything I want to look at these on my computer screen rather then my beat up old phone




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    Hope all is ok Halliwax! Best wishes for sure.

    But yes, whenever life calms down, by all means feel free to poke holes. (Though I think I have some evidence to the contrary).

    This is a small part of some things Iíve been looking at and some observations and thoughts I have. Before I posted a full rundown of things, was sort using this as a barometer to see if Iím just way off base.


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    1 Week Ago  Nov 27, 2017, 5:02 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #9

    Iíve always been very interested in the Ranch Saber and am seriously contemplating doing a build of it one day. It would be incredible learn that not all the things we think are ďwrongĒ with it arnt that wrong after all.


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    1 Week Ago  Nov 27, 2017, 5:06 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #10

    halliwax said: View Post
    MS, do u have a picture of this actual scene? Is this when Luke leans up to the ceiling to cut himself free?


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    Yes, itís the very quick shot that happens right after he calls the saber to his hand and leans up to cut himself free from the ice holding his feet.

    Here is a larger screenshot I think I cropped and adjusted from this.


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  11. halliwax's Avatar
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    1 Week Ago  Nov 27, 2017, 5:13 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #11

    Thanks, my dads been good the past couple months. Heís crippled right now in pain. We will see where this goes

    This stuff helps me keep sane and escape the real world troubles. I thought that was this scene! Wicked find!

    When I get home Iíll explain my theory on the ranch saber, I talked with one of my mentors about it a lot actually

    Tom if u donít mind stepping in and explaining to you what I showed you I donít mind one bit. I donít know how long Iím gonna be held up

    Ms, thanks for the concern. Much appreciated buddy, one of the main reasons I love this site is because of the kind community. With all the other forums Iím on Iíve seen nothing like this one when it comes to helping and concern

    Love all you guys


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    1 Week Ago  Nov 27, 2017, 5:24 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #12

    Kbuckne4 said: View Post
    Iíve always been very interested in the Ranch Saber and am seriously contemplating doing a build of it one day. It would be incredible learn that not all the things we think are ďwrongĒ with it arnt that wrong after all.


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    I think the ranch saber is fascinating too. I donít love it aesthetically, but Iím certainly interested in its journey to be the SRS (if such a journey even exists).


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    1 Week Ago  Nov 27, 2017, 6:15 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #13

    halliwax said: View Post
    Thanks, my dads been good the past couple months. Heís crippled right now in pain. We will see where this goes

    This stuff helps me keep sane and escape the real world troubles. I thought that was this scene! Wicked find!

    When I get home Iíll explain my theory on the ranch saber, I talked with one of my mentors about it a lot actually

    Tom if u donít mind stepping in and explaining to you what I showed you I donít mind one bit. I donít know how long Iím gonna be held up

    Ms, thanks for the concern. Much appreciated buddy, one of the main reasons I love this site is because of the kind community. With all the other forums Iím on Iíve seen nothing like this one when it comes to helping and concern

    Love all you guys


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    Hey man thoughts out to your family!


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  14. RPF Premium Member
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    1 Week Ago  Nov 27, 2017, 7:57 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #14

    Here is another screenshot that is slightly better quality for review.


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  15. RPF Premium Member thd9791's Avatar
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    1 Week Ago  Nov 27, 2017, 9:17 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #15

    I'm going to vote no, and here's why.

    The Kobold clip, being a C channel item likes to make a dark shadow from a distance. Both the blue and light screencaps have that shadow - but it stops halfway down the kobold. The shadow actually extends up onto the glove, not even sure how this is happening

    The kobold rear face is flat for half the length and raised and concave the rest. The coincidence that the shadow stops halfway, and the Kobold changes halfway, make me think it's the same as the famous one. in fact, in the first collage, I see a gradual lightening left to right, as if it's a concave surface, like the back of a Kobold clip.

    That being said, I've heard Halliwax's related theory and I heartily support it. Good luck buddy, wishing you lots of strength!
  16. RPF Premium Member
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    1 Week Ago  Nov 27, 2017, 9:47 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #16

    thd9791 said: View Post
    I'm going to vote no, and here's why.

    The Kobold clip, being a C channel item likes to make a dark shadow from a distance. Both the blue and light screencaps have that shadow - but it stops halfway down the kobold. The shadow actually extends up onto the glove, not even sure how this is happening

    The kobold rear face is flat for half the length and raised and concave the rest. The coincidence that the shadow stops halfway, and the Kobold changes halfway, make me think it's the same as the famous one. in fact, in the first collage, I see a gradual lightening left to right, as if it's a concave surface, like the back of a Kobold clip.

    That being said, I've heard Halliwax's related theory and I heartily support it. Good luck buddy, wishing you lots of strength!
    Thanks for the vote and the feedback! I definitely see what youíre saying. The only things that give me pause are this:

    1) the rivet circles as seen in the other shots are very large and noticeable. Granted this is a bad pic, but even with a bad picture, I feel like we should be able to make out some semblance of two pretty large rivet holes if they were right on top as weíve seen.

    2) that change between light and dark does also line up with where the screws start on flipped clip as on the ranch saber. So I thought perhaps the screws were reflecting enough light back to make that area appear a bit mushy.

    Either way thanks for chiming in!



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  17. RPF Premium Member
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    1 Week Ago  Nov 27, 2017, 10:12 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #17

    So this gets ugly fast considering itís now a picture of a picture of a picture, but still an interesting comparison anyway.

    This is my vintage clip that I put in the usual configuration on the left and ranch configuration on the right in case anyone wants to see the clip next to the picture in question.


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  18. RPF Premium Member thd9791's Avatar
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    1 Week Ago  Nov 27, 2017, 10:18 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #18

    You have a point about not being able to see rivet heads clearly.

    I'll throw in... there were other stunt sabers.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    and yes, Vader's Graflex was​ a rebuilt ESB stunt, allen screws and all
  19. RPF Premium Member veektohr's Avatar
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    1 Week Ago  Nov 27, 2017, 10:23 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #19

    I'll be honest I just see the regular ol' configuration : / I kinda see it on one pic... maybe. Now I'll probably go back and forth a bajillion times second guessing myself.


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  20. SethS's Avatar
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    1 Week Ago  Nov 27, 2017, 10:27 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #20

    Check out page 11 of my handy lightsaber guide amd you’ll two examples of the clip in the traditional arrangement, negating my statement about the cave being the only time we see it that way.
  21. RPF Premium Member
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    1 Week Ago  Nov 27, 2017, 10:28 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #21

    thd9791 said: View Post
    You have a point about not being able to see rivet heads clearly.

    I'll throw in... there were other stunt sabers.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    and yes, Vader's Graflex was​ a rebuilt ESB stunt, allen screws and all
    Yes! I think thatís a very cool lineage of the Vader saber. And definitely - with the big ďifĒ this is an example of it, doesnít mean itís definitely the ranch saber. Could easily be another stunt.


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    1 Week Ago  Nov 28, 2017, 1:10 AM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #22

    If its upside down the screws may be in the shadowed area and why we cannot see them. That would mean extra holes were drilled to change what side the D ring slots into, and seems too much hassle to do. It does look to me to be upside down, but I can easily see how it could be light and shadow magic which always is my downfall Even in a picture like this we still should be able to see the rivets/screws you would think. The way the aluminum reflects in that Vader stunt pic could be the answer, it reflects in a way that way washes out what we see, and could be why we don't see any rivets, and leads me back to feeling it is not upside down. Interesting find. Cheers for sharing. Look forward to other opinions.
  23. 3 CELL PO's Avatar
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    1 Week Ago  Nov 28, 2017, 6:05 AM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #23

    thd9791 said: View Post
    You have a point about not being able to see rivet heads clearly.

    I'll throw in... there were other stunt sabers.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    and yes, Vader's Graflex was​ a rebuilt ESB stunt, allen screws and all
    Quick question on the photo: Is that ESB Graflex end a folmer or non folmer?
  24. RPF Premium Member thd9791's Avatar
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    1 Week Ago  Nov 28, 2017, 10:46 AM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #24

    3 CELL PO said: View Post
    Quick question on the photo: Is that ESB Graflex end a folmer or non folmer?
    When it comes to the bladed stunt, I'm not sure. We've never seen the bottom up close.

    The Vader one - funnily enough the bottom has a brass plate or putty covering the endcap lettering. Click image for larger version. 

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  25. RPF Premium Member
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    1 Week Ago  Nov 29, 2017, 8:44 AM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #25

    thd9791 said: View Post
    I'm going to vote no, and here's why.

    The Kobold clip, being a C channel item likes to make a dark shadow from a distance. Both the blue and light screencaps have that shadow - but it stops halfway down the kobold. The shadow actually extends up onto the glove, not even sure how this is happening

    The kobold rear face is flat for half the length and raised and concave the rest. The coincidence that the shadow stops halfway, and the Kobold changes halfway, make me think it's the same as the famous one. in fact, in the first collage, I see a gradual lightening left to right, as if it's a concave surface, like the back of a Kobold clip.

    That being said, I've heard Halliwax's related theory and I heartily support it. Good luck buddy, wishing you lots of strength!
    Tom, just curious - isnít the Kobold clip concave in both sections? Definitely one section is raised for sure, but both sections are concave, no?

    Even if that is true, I donít know that it changes the outcome.




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