ANOVOS issues (ANOVOS ONLY discussion)

I also have 15 days left for them to ship my tk kit. Although I ordered it back in September when they were planning for a fall shipping.

It's too much. I may as well wait to see what they say before deciding cancel/ don't cancel but over time I have dissuaded about half a dozen potential customers from Anovos. Not that the company doesn't already have way more than they can handle but now no one I know is even considering ever ordering from them anymore.
 
Do Anovos still give out discount codes with orders? I'm tempted by the X-Wing flight suit and flak vest and wondering if anyone has one they're not going to use?

Cheers!
 
I canceled my premiere Kylo months ago when they announced the last delay. I had waited 1.5 years already and didn’t even care about the costume anymore. Everyone has a limit until they say enough is enough. I reached mine with ANOVOS.
 
Hey, I just want to keep this thread bumped to the top - if only because anyone associated with Anovos might feel a tiny bit of relief from seeing it go dormant. BUT...

15 more days left in this "window" to receive the Kylo Ren premiere costume I purchased from them in person TWO YEARS AGO. And every indication is that they will delay it again.

Wow.
Conversation with the Anovos reps at ECCC....
Me- "Hi, I wanted to check on the shipping for the Premiere Kylo Ren ensemble"
Rep-(checking his iPad)"It should be shipping this quarter"
Me-"Yeah, that's what it says on your site. That's what it also said in the summer quarter last year up until the very last day and it said it was delayed until winter. So we have a few weeks left for the winter quarter, do you have any kind of update? Will it be shipped in the next few weeks?"
Rep-"According to our calendar it should"
Me-(banging my head with a display Shoretrooper helmet) "Yes, thats what the website says. I'm asking you, as a human who works for Anovos, will it ship before the end of this quarter?"
Rep- "It says it should"
 
Not sure why you expect them to answer differently? That person most likely has nothing to do with the schedule and any changes in it. Even if they did they probably aren't at liberty to discuss it.

The different answer we expect is, "Yes, it is still scheduled but, if I want to keep my job I have to abide by the directives of my employer which prevent me from saying anything beyond what they allow me to say. I am only allowed to refer to the same calendar you see. So, in effect, it is pointless to contact customer support for more precise shipping estimates. As a 'human,' my apologies."

THAT is what they should have the courage and courtesy to say.
 
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They have been specifically instructed by LFL, Disney, or both not to reveal the inner workings of their business. I thought this was made clear some time back. What they're dealing with and working on behind-the-scenes, they are not allowed to divulge to the public. The delivery estimates remain what they are until they are not. That's all they can say. I understand this, I am satisfied doing business with them. I am not happy I am still waiting for my FOTK armor kit, but I understand enough of what they have going on I knew what I was getting into. I research the vendors I buy from. I try to get to know them, if possible. I've known several of the folks at or who have done work for ANOVOS over the years. They're good people who are doing their best and will always make good, even if it takes a while.

As also already said, LFL/Disney are much, much more micromanaging than the Star Trek and BSG rights-holders. Every piece, every step, every revision needs to be run by and approved by them before they can continue. This has drastically slowed things down compared to what else they do. All the back and forth and scheduling meetings and trips to China and new prototype/test items...

Alex, who runs the Dented Helmet now that Art has stepped back a bit, also works for ANOVOS. I've known him online for over a decade. He was one of the ANOVOS reps at Emerald City Comic Con this past weekend. We spent a while talking about all manner of things. He's sad about the Shoretrooper/Driver armor being cancelled due to lack of interest, and is going to probably go with a fan maker I won't name for his AT-ACT kit (he, of course, has the ANOVOS helmet). We talked about the horrible surprise of that entire shipment of Phasma helmets having the messed up finish from the thermal shock of sitting too long in the cargo ship's hold at port after being taken from the factory too soon...

They are people who love the hobby and want to deliver what they promise to on schedule, and they hate it when they can't, and they hate that they can't tell us more about what's going on. All of this is not news. I have no hesitation pointing people to their Star Trek and BSG items, to the Star Wars stuff they have in stock... And I let them know they are hit-and-miss on delivering the pre-order items on time, depending on production factors. As TubaChris' review points out, there are good things and less-good things about their new Snowtrooper armor/soft-goods set. So I suggest they wait until the finished piece is out and take their chances on being able to snag one before they're sold out, unless they have confidence in their ability to reinforce thin plastic, rework erroneous construction, etc. I know I can, which is why I went ahead and pre-ordered the FOTK kit.

I make sure they make an informed choice, but I don't catagorically warn them away. That's not the answer. That's how we see other items cancelled. That's how we see lack of sales cost them their license and all the things they have delivered on disappear. I'd rather see them supported and continue having the opportunity to improve, as they've been doing, more and more.

So I'm not keen on people coming into this thread just to dump on them. As with DL, as with MC, as with SGB, I try to be the kind of person these people got into the hobby to help, not the kind who makes them question why they bother even trying. I, personally, am not going to buy anything from DL in the future, though I hear he's turned things around and is reliable again. That's good. I've known MC for over a decade, have known the stuff he's dealt with, and have ordered from him during the less-chaotic times and never been disappointed, even when there are delays. Much the same with SGB. I don't like rejoicing in failure. I don't like smugness when those we should be encouraging come up short. So please... Stop calling them names, stop trying to destroy them. We're all supposed to be in this together.

--Jonah
 
Hi, Jonah - thank you for your thoughts and your passions and thank you for taking the time. But, in a sense, what you wrote here is all that is needed. You are the only contributor to the whole process here of late who has assuaged my sense (and probably others) of having been left out in the cold. And you did it without revealing "inner workings." And it should be no mystery to anyone in public relations at Disney that periodic interaction like this is needed where extended silence turns into disrespect and builds frustration.

All of the people I steered away from Anovos were folks who got excited about dressing up for specific events/ doing something with the kids but they had things like birthday parties in mind which do not accommodate a three year wait. And knowing my background, they came to me specifically with questions about where to get high end costumes. I did not vilify Anovos but explained the investment-leading-to-product business model and they immediately lost interest.

I will stand by this though - Anovos may, yes, lose business if they are honest on this front but, after their experience thus far they can absolutely be more accurate with their shipping estimates. If something is going to be two years or so, say it up front. It is now the choice between deliberately misleading customers or loosing business but they need to clean it up on that front.

It is not below them to more effectively ask for understanding. And a simple blurb about needing to have paint dry longer before shipping would have had every Phasma customer out here eager to wait for the extra ten days or so of drying time - if Disney prevented this, they are overworked fools who have too little to do.

But again, Jonah - thank you. Feelings in flux here but you have effectively and successfully stood up for Anovos where they either cannot or will not.


They have been specifically instructed by LFL, Disney, or both not to reveal the inner workings of their business. I thought this was made clear some time back. What they're dealing with and working on behind-the-scenes, they are not allowed to divulge to the public. The delivery estimates remain what they are until they are not. That's all they can say. I understand this, I am satisfied doing business with them. I am not happy I am still waiting for my FOTK armor kit, but I understand enough of what they have going on I knew what I was getting into. I research the vendors I buy from. I try to get to know them, if possible. I've known several of the folks at or who have done work for ANOVOS over the years. They're good people who are doing their best and will always make good, even if it takes a while.

As also already said, LFL/Disney are much, much more micromanaging than the Star Trek and BSG rights-holders. Every piece, every step, every revision needs to be run by and approved by them before they can continue. This has drastically slowed things down compared to what else they do. All the back and forth and scheduling meetings and trips to China and new prototype/test items...

Alex, who runs the Dented Helmet now that Art has stepped back a bit, also works for ANOVOS. I've known him online for over a decade. He was one of the ANOVOS reps at Emerald City Comic Con this past weekend. We spent a while talking about all manner of things. He's sad about the Shoretrooper/Driver armor being cancelled due to lack of interest, and is going to probably go with a fan maker I won't name for his AT-ACT kit (he, of course, has the ANOVOS helmet). We talked about the horrible surprise of that entire shipment of Phasma helmets having the messed up finish from the thermal shock of sitting too long in the cargo ship's hold at port after being taken from the factory too soon...

They are people who love the hobby and want to deliver what they promise to on schedule, and they hate it when they can't, and they hate that they can't tell us more about what's going on. All of this is not news. I have no hesitation pointing people to their Star Trek and BSG items, to the Star Wars stuff they have in stock... And I let them know they are hit-and-miss on delivering the pre-order items on time, depending on production factors. As TubaChris' review points out, there are good things and less-good things about their new Snowtrooper armor/soft-goods set. So I suggest they wait until the finished piece is out and take their chances on being able to snag one before they're sold out, unless they have confidence in their ability to reinforce thin plastic, rework erroneous construction, etc. I know I can, which is why I went ahead and pre-ordered the FOTK kit.

I make sure they make an informed choice, but I don't catagorically warn them away. That's not the answer. That's how we see other items cancelled. That's how we see lack of sales cost them their license and all the things they have delivered on disappear. I'd rather see them supported and continue having the opportunity to improve, as they've been doing, more and more.

So I'm not keen on people coming into this thread just to dump on them. As with DL, as with MC, as with SGB, I try to be the kind of person these people got into the hobby to help, not the kind who makes them question why they bother even trying. I, personally, am not going to buy anything from DL in the future, though I hear he's turned things around and is reliable again. That's good. I've known MC for over a decade, have known the stuff he's dealt with, and have ordered from him during the less-chaotic times and never been disappointed, even when there are delays. Much the same with SGB. I don't like rejoicing in failure. I don't like smugness when those we should be encouraging come up short. So please... Stop calling them names, stop trying to destroy them. We're all supposed to be in this together.

--Jonah
 
Oh, BOY!.

It's good to know that they worked REALLLLYYY hard to "overcome some difficulties" and get the production "back on track."

Of course back on track means that they are having to yet again push shipping back another quarter. I'd hat to see how far they would have pushed it back if they weren't able to save the day! LOL!

Anovos.png

Cheers
Steven
 
In the case of the rep...i think it may have to do with the rep.

When i called on my Tie Helmet in November, i got someone who told me the system showed it was due to be shipped to them from the fabricator later that week and that their anticipated ship date was 12/22 (ish, not sure on the date offhand).(this was on the 9th time or so it was delayed, so i took it with a giant grain of salt.) I had item in hand two weeks prior to that date.

If they're sticking to the listed date, i'd guess it means they've not gotten a shipping date from the fabricator. Without that date all they have is their projection. You don't update the system with 'no word from fabricator today', final ship date TBA. You stand with your scheduled dates until you know definitively you're not going to make it.

That said, with a listing of Winter 2018, that gives them through 3/20 - a whopping 12 days. If it's coming from SE Asia, they're not making the date and they know it. However, it's likely not going to be reflected in the system until the fabricator gives them a next estimate. And again, it's said throughout this thread. Anovos is not a big player when it comes to factory time. If a Hasbro comes in and asks the factory to kick out a crap ton of a toy, for example, and offers a bonus for quick turn around - Anovos is getting bumped. That's the way it is. They're not an entity with complete control of the manufacturing process.
 
Hi, Jonah - thank you for your thoughts and your passions and thank you for taking the time. But, in a sense, what you wrote here is all that is needed. You are the only contributor to the whole process here of late who has assuaged my sense (and probably others) of having been left out in the cold. And you did it without revealing "inner workings." And it should be no mystery to anyone in public relations at Disney that periodic interaction like this is needed where extended silence turns into disrespect and builds frustration.

That's what I told Alex. *heh* I suggested a work-from-home customer-service job where they pay me in product to distill the actual internal information they can't release into some sort of non-disclosing update for customers and potential customers. We'll see. ;)

All of the people I steered away from Anovos were folks who got excited about dressing up for specific events/ doing something with the kids but they had things like birthday parties in mind which do not accommodate a three year wait. And knowing my background, they came to me specifically with questions about where to get high end costumes. I did not vilify Anovos but explained the investment-leading-to-product business model and they immediately lost interest.

Yeah, I would never recommend ANOVOS -- even the in-stock stuff -- fo rpeople who just want to dress up once for something casual. That's what Rubies is for. I know some people in the 501st spend a lot of time, money, and effort on really good costumes, then turn around and sell them after they've worn them once or twice and start working on the next. It's a mentality I just can't wrap my head around. So if that's what they're after, I'd probably have too hard a time not throttling them on general principle, independent of vendors. :lol

I will stand by this though - Anovos may, yes, lose business if they are honest on this front but, after their experience thus far they can absolutely be more accurate with their shipping estimates. If something is going to be two years or so, say it up front. It is now the choice between deliberately misleading customers or loosing business but they need to clean it up on that front.

It is not below them to more effectively ask for understanding. And a simple blurb about needing to have paint dry longer before shipping would have had every Phasma customer out here eager to wait for the extra ten days or so of drying time - if Disney prevented this, they are overworked fools who have too little to do.

But again, Jonah - thank you. Feelings in flux here but you have effectively and successfully stood up for Anovos where they either cannot or will not.

As cboath put it, they have too little control over all the manufacturing steps. When they get production time at any given factory, whether the boat will be held in port for some reason, whether their shipping container will miss it and have to wait for the next one, whether their shipping container falls overboard and needs to be replaced (this happened back in the '90s with Games Workshop -- the very first shipment of Eldar Falcon grav-tank model kits was one of the shipping containers that fell off the cargo ship on its way to the US)... The issue with the Phasma helmets was that, for that batch, someone at the factory who didn't know any better released them for shipment too soon, so they were boxed up and sent to the boat where they sat. Because of all the complaints and demands for refunds, ANOVOS just decided to cut their losses and stop offering the Phasma helmet. That... doesn't feel like a huge win for the customers to me...

ANOVOS doesn't have the manpower to have people at all the factories they contract with in China to make sure they do it right. LFL and Disney don't care enough to hire their own people to oversee QC at all their licensees' factories. Maybe Disney just needs to buy a few factories over there and streamline things. :p Some portion of those unforeseen delays are when they get a test item from China and it's wrong, and they have to have it reworked and put back in the queue to try again. If they were doing it all in-house, a lot of that lag would be cut down (though not eliminated). As it is, they have to get across what they need, and the people doing the work have to "get it". There's a language barrier and also a not-insignificant "don't-give-a-s***" barrier.

My most personal example is the FOTK armor kit. ANOVOS have the digital files used to make the prototypes for the film costumes. The film costumes were made of a semi-flexible, very forgiving urethane resin, cast in negative molds in all the complex shapes required -- especially the upper-back piece that has complex indents and extends over the shoulders to curve under the arms in front. Impossible to vacu-form. The "Alpha" and "Beta" kits some of the 501st got for the TFA premiere were decidedly rough drafts, with inaccurate detailing and some massaging of piece-fit needed. Translating single-piece negative molds to multi-piece positive bucks is migraine-inducing. Calculating how much to take off for material thickness, trying to keep detailing as sharp as possible, etc. Especially figuring out how to do impossible pieces like that upper-body piece.

It wasn't until they got the first test pulls of the newly-revised "Gamma"/production version that they realized the factory who had beein doing the work hadn't taken pains to make sure the piece edges lined up right, and the thickness of the plastic they went with lost too much detail. So, late in the pre-production, they had to choose between releasing a woefully inferior product on time that they'd get all kinds of negative feedback on... or essentially start over from the digital files and tool new bucks for better fit and sharper detail. I applaud the choice they made. Could they have done it that way from the start? Yes -- for a substantially higher initial cost (milling steel bucks is a lot more expensive than carving wooden ones or casting hydrocal ones). I can't blame them for hoping the cheaper option they led with would work. Hopefully these will be popular items when finished and shipping, to warrant multiple batches. That'll be the only way they can avoid taking a big loss on this item. The good news is that the steel bucks will stand up to many thousands of pulls without any loss of detail, so they have a chance to make it back.

All of that involved, often, literal months of back-and-forth time between each step. Their current shipping estimate is in hopes that the actual pieces that should be here by now don't run into any delays or downchecks from LFL or Disney, which ANOVOS have no control over. If it's delayed again, I'll be annoyed, yes. But it's tempered by my knowing they're not doing it on purpose, or to shine us on, and that they're at least as annoyed by every new delay as we are. Each one they know hurts their reputation and potential sales. I'm hoping to try to help them find a happy medium between their preferred transparency and the utterly-opaque opposite extreme they've gone to since Disney told them to stop being so open. Disney didn't spell out what to reveal or what not to, so they're playing it safe by not saying anything. That obviously doesn't work for anyone involved (except Disney, and, arguably, not even them).

--Jonah
 
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Too bad anything beyond vacuforumed ABS is prohibitively expensive, or they could have just done urethane cast armor. As it is the only way to get the correct film accurate look is going to be painting that yoke (upper back) piece and hoping to god it doesn't crack while wearing it.
 
KR News...
"Kylo Ren Premier Ensemble - Updates
Current Shipping Estimate: Late March/ Early April 2018"


[/h]
 
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I like it as an option for people who like the more-movie-accurate asymmetrical style. There are more authentically accurate kits out there, usually more expensive. And having them start out deconstructed gives the end-used more ability to tweak it how they want before assembly.

I'm sticking with my symmetrical Black Series ones. ;)
 
Jonah - awesome and very considerate of you to put in the time. Both Anovos and customers benefit from your write up. At one point you say, even when you might get annoyed, it is "tempered by (your) knowing they're not doing it on purpose," etc. and this is knowledge or information and reassurance that the rest of us do not have. We do not know anyone on the inside. You do and you are really truly helping out here in bridging the gap. And thanks again.

Maybe suggest to Anovos that, when something is delayed twice, Disney allow them to enter into closer contact with those specific items and specific customers. Some hand-holding is needed after two delays or a skipped Halloween. Folks at Disney, I suspect, THINK they are protecting the mystery, or other, of their intellectual property with their approach/ decisions and restrictions on Anovos it seems but it would help for them to realize they are perhaps part of the problem here. Or even the entire problem. And perhaps someone like yourself could be a liason not between Anovos and customers but between DISNEY AND ANOVOS!!!!

I'd love that. Disney needs to be more aware of the mindset. We fans DO have all the patience needed. We have the excitement. Disney is not engaging both. They are abusing our excitement.

That said, I did get notice that my Kylo outfit is set to ship by end of April. I am surprised but delighted.

That's what I told Alex. *heh* I suggested a work-from-home customer-service job where they pay me in product to distill the actual internal information they can't release into some sort of non-disclosing update for customers and potential customers. We'll see. ;)



Yeah, I would never recommend ANOVOS -- even the in-stock stuff -- fo rpeople who just want to dress up once for something casual. That's what Rubies is for. I know some people in the 501st spend a lot of time, money, and effort on really good costumes, then turn around and sell them after they've worn them once or twice and start working on the next. It's a mentality I just can't wrap my head around. So if that's what they're after, I'd probably have too hard a time not throttling them on general principle, independent of vendors. :lol



As @cboath put it, they have too little control over all the manufacturing steps. When they get production time at any given factory, whether the boat will be held in port for some reason, whether their shipping container will miss it and have to wait for the next one, whether their shipping container falls overboard and needs to be replaced (this happened back in the '90s with Games Workshop -- the very first shipment of Eldar Falcon grav-tank model kits was one of the shipping containers that fell off the cargo ship on its way to the US)... The issue with the Phasma helmets was that, for that batch, someone at the factory who didn't know any better released them for shipment too soon, so they were boxed up and sent to the boat where they sat. Because of all the complaints and demands for refunds, ANOVOS just decided to cut their losses and stop offering the Phasma helmet. That... doesn't feel like a huge win for the customers to me...

ANOVOS doesn't have the manpower to have people at all the factories they contract with in China to make sure they do it right. LFL and Disney don't care enough to hire their own people to oversee QC at all their licensees' factories. Maybe Disney just needs to buy a few factories over there and streamline things. :p Some portion of those unforeseen delays are when they get a test item from China and it's wrong, and they have to have it reworked and put back in the queue to try again. If they were doing it all in-house, a lot of that lag would be cut down (though not eliminated). As it is, they have to get across what they need, and the people doing the work have to "get it". There's a language barrier and also a not-insignificant "don't-give-a-s***" barrier.

My most personal example is the FOTK armor kit. ANOVOS have the digital files used to make the prototypes for the film costumes. The film costumes were made of a semi-flexible, very forgiving urethane resin, cast in negative molds in all the complex shapes required -- especially the upper-back piece that has complex indents and extends over the shoulders to curve under the arms in front. Impossible to vacu-form. The "Alpha" and "Beta" kits some of the 501st got for the TFA premiere were decidedly rough drafts, with inaccurate detailing and some massaging of piece-fit needed. Translating single-piece negative molds to multi-piece positive bucks is migraine-inducing. Calculating how much to take off for material thickness, trying to keep detailing as sharp as possible, etc. Especially figuring out how to do impossible pieces like that upper-body piece.

It wasn't until they got the first test pulls of the newly-revised "Gamma"/production version that they realized the factory who had beein doing the work hadn't taken pains to make sure the piece edges lined up right, and the thickness of the plastic they went with lost too much detail. So, late in the pre-production, they had to choose between releasing a woefully inferior product on time that they'd get all kinds of negative feedback on... or essentially start over from the digital files and tool new bucks for better fit and sharper detail. I applaud the choice they made. Could they have done it that way from the start? Yes -- for a substantially higher initial cost (milling steel bucks is a lot more expensive than carving wooden ones or casting hydrocal ones). I can't blame them for hoping the cheaper option they led with would work. Hopefully these will be popular items when finished and shipping, to warrant multiple batches. That'll be the only way they can avoid taking a big loss on this item. The good news is that the steel bucks will stand up to many thousands of pulls without any loss of detail, so they have a chance to make it back.

All of that involved, often, literal months of back-and-forth time between each step. Their current shipping estimate is in hopes that the actual pieces that should be here by now don't run into any delays or downchecks from LFL or Disney, which ANOVOS have no control over. If it's delayed again, I'll be annoyed, yes. But it's tempered by my knowing they're not doing it on purpose, or to shine us on, and that they're at least as annoyed by every new delay as we are. Each one they know hurts their reputation and potential sales. I'm hoping to try to help them find a happy medium between their preferred transparency and the utterly-opaque opposite extreme they've gone to since Disney told them to stop being so open. Disney didn't spell out what to reveal or what not to, so they're playing it safe by not saying anything. That obviously doesn't work for anyone involved (except Disney, and, arguably, not even them).

--Jonah
 
Folks at Disney, I suspect, THINK they are protecting the mystery, or other, of their intellectual property with their approach/ decisions and restrictions on Anovos it seems but it would help for them to realize they are perhaps part of the problem here. Or even the entire problem. And perhaps someone like yourself could be a liason not between Anovos and customers but between DISNEY AND ANOVOS!!!!

I'd need someone who understands corporate-think better than me to weigh in on why Disney/LFL put the kibosh on ANOVOS letting folks know the intricacies of what they have going on, production-side.

That said, I did get notice that my Kylo outfit is set to ship by end of April. I am surprised but delighted.

Good news. :) I'm still hoping they'll make their current estimate for my FOTK armor kit. I've been itching to get started on it for some time now.

--Jonah
 

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