Star Trek: Discovery (2017)

How are you watching Star Trek: Discovery?

  • Signed up for CBS All Access before watching the premiere

    Votes: 13 9.1%
  • Signed up for CBS All Access after watching the premiere

    Votes: 13 9.1%
  • Not signing up, but will watch if it's available for free

    Votes: 82 57.3%
  • On Netflix (Non-US viewer)

    Votes: 35 24.5%

  • Total voters
    143
As a ********* lefty Hollywood writer you can always PM me the response I missed. I may have sounded combative, but it was more frustration than anything else. Wasn't trying to start a fight as much as try to understand.
 
I feel your frustration SethS.....it's a catch-22 effort to watch a series you want to love so much, and yet, with each episode you have to strain and make excuses about why it may have been good. I feel like I'm rationalizing that it may be OK because of it's pedigree and not because of it's content.
 
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There's TWO scales of judgement happening, and in my experience, fandom tends to have trouble not merging them into one.

There's the scale of judging the show on its own merits--it's writing, it's visuals, it's direction, etc.

Then there's the fandom judgement of "Is this what I want from my favorite thing that I think I know best."

There's people posting here, hating on the show, who made it clear from the second it was announced they were going to hate it because it wasn't what they thought it should be. With their minds made up, they continue to bash everything that happens as if they are surprised, and just pick apart everything behind the scenes in whatever fashion suits their politics, opinions, and whatever Trek means in their own minds.

A lot of these people can't look past their fandom and simply hate it for not being what they wanted it to be. That said, Discovery is far from perfect, but instead of being able to talk about what could be better, or why it doesn't work, the conversation continually is driven back to politics and fanboy freak outs.

If I don't like a TV show, I stop watching it. And after a post or two to vent my opinion, I bail from a thread. I don't go back with every episode to complain about the same things, and fight anyone who disagrees with me.
 
There's TWO scales of judgement happening, and in my experience, fandom tends to have trouble not merging them into one.

There's the scale of judging the show on its own merits--it's writing, it's visuals, it's direction, etc.

Then there's the fandom judgement of "Is this what I want from my favorite thing that I think I know best."

There's people posting here, hating on the show, who made it clear from the second it was announced they were going to hate it because it wasn't what they thought it should be. With their minds made up, they continue to bash everything that happens as if they are surprised, and just pick apart everything behind the scenes in whatever fashion suits their politics, opinions, and whatever Trek means in their own minds.

A lot of these people can't look past their fandom and simply hate it for not being what they wanted it to be. That said, Discovery is far from perfect, but instead of being able to talk about what could be better, or why it doesn't work, the conversation continually is driven back to politics and fanboy freak outs.

If I don't like a TV show, I stop watching it. And after a post or two to vent my opinion, I bail from a thread. I don't go back with every episode to complain about the same things, and fight anyone who disagrees with me.

How much can you change a thing until it is no longer that thing?

Is Trek merely saucer section fleet ships, vector insignia on uniforms, a diverse crew and then anything goes?

What is the core of Trek to you to remain Trek?
 
How much can you change a thing until it is no longer that thing?

Is Trek merely saucer section fleet ships, vector insignia on uniforms, a diverse crew and then anything goes?

What is the core of Trek to you to remain Trek?

If you're asking me seriously-- to me Trek is a science fiction story that reflects current social issues by using aliens, the unknown, and technological super science as allegory. On top of that, there's certain levels of story, actiony adventure, and continuity that are very much TREK that should be at play.

I think Discovery TRIES to do all those things, but it misses the mark on one too many of them, or in some cases OVER-HITS the mark and feels like it is trying too hard.

Finally, there is a tone to Trek that tells us that we can better human beings and that we should be idealistic about the future and what we have the potential to be.

On THAT, I think Discovery missed the mark. It's not just the OMG GRITTY that does it-- DS9 was plenty dark and gritty-- but it never lost that core idealistic tone no matter how dark it got. Discovery is a bit too cynical to feel like Star Trek.

I think the production design is killer-- thought I don't love the ship designs.

The continuity will be the biggest sticking point. If they hadn't pre-sold us on it being Prime-verse maybe the reaction to it being obviously NOT wouldn't have been such a major point of alienation to a lot of fans.

It was also the truth. Some people can't handle the truth.

I have no problem with truths, or having discussions-- slipping into political soapboxing and making nasty remarks about people don't have to be part of the conversation. I thought you had a point, but you chose to be ugly and snide about it.
 
Glad they're in the Mirror Universe now. Looking forward to seeing what's become of the Defiant over the last 100 years. Also wondering if Emperor Hoshi is the same Hoshi from Enterprise.
 
...
Finally, there is a tone to Trek that tells us that we can better human beings and that we should be idealistic about the future and what we have the potential to be.

On THAT, I think Discovery missed the mark. It's not just the OMG GRITTY that does it-- DS9 was plenty dark and gritty-- but it never lost that core idealistic tone no matter how dark it got. Discovery is a bit too cynical to feel like Star Trek.


And that is what screams to me. Because the one word, the one word you will find repeated again and again in all the serious examining of Trek
over the many decades now...
Optimism. Humanity post WWIII learned it's lessons, we graduated. We built starships to explore the endless
possibilities in space and through that exploration expand ourselves. Sagan's "Dreams are maps.", "Cartographers of human purpose"
The difficult aliens and all kinds of obstacles to exploration for drama's sake are there to challenge our leveled up humanity and show us
the way.
And if necessary spend time around Orion slave girls god forbid. Tough missions sometimes keeping ratings up. But always
they would remind us regularly with either a whole episode or at least a brief scene. Why, why are they aboard these starships,
why challenge ourselves so far from home.

Voyager's dedication plaque quotes Tennyson
"For I dipt into the future far as human eye could see;
Saw the Vision of the world and all the wonder that would be."

That's the spine of Star Trek.
They didn't include it. Like a suspension bridge without cables if we were looking at it from an engineering perspective, it can't be a bridge.
Trek is sort of a bridge isn't it? From now to what we wish we could become.
I would ask them why? Would they give an intentional reason they did this or stare at me like a deer in the headlights? Perhaps just laugh and
step on Roddenberry's "box" in front of me.


What else out there is positive about humanity's future?
Dystopia and war reigns supreme. It's almost like it's not Sci Fi these days
unless it contains those things.
 
There’s always been the sci-fi sub genre that pushes the satire and allegory to reflect darkness— post apocalyptic settings, dark futures— Blade Runner, Road Warrior, Terminator... but the reason subgenres exist is so we can pick and choose. You can certainly mix and match on occasion, but I don’t want my Trek bleak any more than I want my Blade Runner sunny and happy.
 
I have no problem with truths, or having discussions-- slipping into political soapboxing and making nasty remarks about people don't have to be part of the conversation. I thought you had a point, but you chose to be ugly and snide about it.

Then you should probably talk to @Bryancd who just called Cephus a snowflake. That's a political and personal insult. Let's be fair, Seth.
 
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I'm not a mod. I didn't say it. I don;'t condone it. That's deflection.

Cessnadriver asked me a question, and I answered him it. If Bryan gets his comment deleted, that's fair I suppose.
 
https://www.buzzfeed.com/adambvary/star-trek-discovery-death-spoilers?utm_term=.noporwwgP#.sc1opVVbg

It sounds more like ST:D runners were trying to avoid the backlash other shows had. It was a creative decision to kill the character and they sought to circumvent backlash by addressing it with GLAAD.

There's no indication that the creative process was changed or swayed (or that it would have) by running it past GLAAD. However, there has been backlash despite that.

Current co-showrunner Aaron Harberts is gay and I'm not sure how much input Bryan Fuller has on the show anymore (he is still listed as Executive Producer) - but, he is a gay man that's written gay characters (in fact, Fuller has some pretty smart quotes about gay characters on TV and elsewhere . I can understand some cautious footsteps - but, there has been nothing to indicate that there was influence on the creative process from outside sources. As a straight, white male - it's not something I can say I know a lot about... I'm not keen on PDAs from anyone.

We now know MLK had influence over Nichelle Nichols decision not to leave TOS. In this information age, everything has become newsworthy - I wonder in Roddenberry had opted to talk to the NAACP or other organizations in the 60s if that would have been discussed like this is.
 
The latest episode made me realize something-- I wish there was a Mass Effect TV show... that and Mirror-universe Tilly should marry me.
 

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