Floquil Railroad Colors Lacquer and Enamel Paint Survey

Part of the difficulty in getting a neutral color reference is that the glass in the exhibit cases is very green. Unfortunately, the only way to perfectly eliminate the green is for the color chart to be behind the glass as well. In my photos I tried to white balance off of something I knew was supposed to be white and then use that correction for all the photos of models in the exhibit that were behind the same kind (hopefully) of glass. In my case I used white from the snow scenery in the Taun Taun exhibit case. I also used a handheld flash when photographing the models to try and override the smaller multi-colored lights hitting the model. Knowing the color temperature of my flash, and hopefully setting an appropriate white balance, should yield pretty accurate colors. Chances that I got it just right are pretty much nil, but I think I got very close. Here's one shot of the 5 footer as an example:

Bottom Front -10.jpg

Then of course there's dealing with the fact that you'd need to calibrate your monitor to see the colors accurately, and no two monitors ever end up looking exactly alike even when calibrated, blah, blah, blah fun with digital imaging blah.
 
stonky said:
Here's a before and an after:

View attachment 493846

It looks like there's a blueish light hitting the model that isn't hitting the chart (you can see the light casting hard shadows on the model and on the base), assuming that this image wasn't altered before you posted it here. :) I think that you had mentioned in the past that your photos came from the 2013 Indianapolis exhibit, I'll check my pictures from the same exhibit to see if I can see what the source of that light was.
Click to expand...


Yup - very tricky lighting that day.

Red/warm display lights in the immediate area of the MF display and very cool-blue-white top light LEDs incident on the model. I put the Color Checker as close to the glass as I could and after profiling the camera and calibrated my monitor, I tweaked the white point in Lightroom to try to arrive at a "slightly warm/light grey" cast to the overall base color ala 50% Reefer White/50% Grime mix.

At the end of the day, it can all get a bit subjective - I just wanted to try to give myself an approximate base-point to vary the other colors against - using the notion of relative Hue/Saturation/Value - and the Munsell Color Notation System to aid in paint mixing.



Regards,

Andre
 
I got to see an touch it when it was on display in San Francisco back in 97.
They had low glass barriers so nothing was in the way of you an the models.
Sadly cameras where not allowed, at least not opening day of the exhibit.
 
This is just one color, but I thought it might help somebody since it is used on the Falcon, though where I haven't learned yet. This is a set of paint chips I scanned comparing different brands of Aged Concrete.

Aged Concrete.jpg

I've color corrected the scan using the color chart, but it's really more useful as a comparison. I'm painting an MPC Walker which was supposedly painted with this color. I'm dubious, (it seems far creamier than the Berg At-AT) but we'll see how it looks after the weathering is finished. Based on these paint chips I chose the Micro Lux Aged Concrete. It's not as yellow as the Polly Scale and I'm not overly fond of working with the Model Master Acryl paints. Micro Lux is made for Micro Mark by Vallejo, and I love the Vallejo acrylics.

If you blow the scan up you can see the Floquil enamel has a grittier texture than the other paints. I used 5% Floquil retarder and thinned the paint 25% which has always worked for me in the past. I did spray at 20psi instead of my usual 15, so maybe that's why. Still, you get a clear idea of the color.

If anyone knows of a better matching color in a currently produced (and preferably acrylic) paint, I'd be curious to try it.

Hope this helps.

David
 
Thanks Dave !

I dont think the AT-AT were originaly painted with aged concrete. I know they have been repainted (restored) in the 90's, then again later. Duncanator who restored them (I guess the second time ?) said he was using washes (so the original weathering is not that much altered), but they may have use concrete wash :( Because, yes now they look very creamy in person.
However in the production pics, they're not a warm gray (in some places only). I have one pic in mind in particular in which we see a finished AT-AT surrounding by stuff that are closer in color to aged concrete (like cardboxes, the wodden handle of a file) and there's also tje big AT-AT foot (that crushes the snowspeeder) next to it which is just in neutral gray primer. And the color of the AT-AT is way much closer to that gray primer. There's too much yellow and green in the aged concrete IMHO !
 
VFX Freak said:
This is just one color, but I thought it might help somebody since it is used on the Falcon, though where I haven't learned yet. This is a set of paint chips I scanned comparing different brands of Aged Concrete.

View attachment 495371

I've color corrected the scan using the color chart, but it's really more useful as a comparison. I'm painting an MPC Walker which was supposedly painted with this color. I'm dubious, (it seems far creamier than the Berg At-AT) but we'll see how it looks after the weathering is finished. Based on these paint chips I chose the Micro Lux Aged Concrete. It's not as yellow as the Polly Scale and I'm not overly fond of working with the Model Master Acryl paints. Micro Lux is made for Micro Mark by Vallejo, and I love the Vallejo acrylics.

If you blow the scan up you can see the Floquil enamel has a grittier texture than the other paints. I used 5% Floquil retarder and thinned the paint 25% which has always worked for me in the past. I did spray at 20psi instead of my usual 15, so maybe that's why. Still, you get a clear idea of the color.

If anyone knows of a better matching color in a currently produced (and preferably acrylic) paint, I'd be curious to try it.

Hope this helps.

David
Click to expand...

I'd say the modelmaster and Pollyscale are closer to the Floquil in hue, but need to be darker. The Microlux has too much green in it.
 
Zenwalker said:
I'd say the modelmaster and Pollyscale are closer to the Floquil in hue, but need to be darker. The Microlux has too much green in it.
Click to expand...

Well, I can't really argue with that. To my eye the Model Master is the closest in hue, just too light, but that's not a worry when it's going to be darkened with lots of weathering. I just found the Model Master paints to be fragile, especially when trying to apply washes over them; even with a clear matte varnish.
 
MonsieurTox said:
Thanks Dave !

I dont think the AT-AT were originaly painted with aged concrete. I know they have been repainted (restored) in the 90's, then again later. Duncanator who restored them (I guess the second time ?) said he was using washes (so the original weathering is not that much altered), but they may have use concrete wash :( Because, yes now they look very creamy in person.
However in the production pics, they're not a warm gray (in some places only). I have one pic in mind in particular in which we see a finished AT-AT surrounding by stuff that are closer in color to aged concrete (like cardboxes, the wodden handle of a file) and there's also tje big AT-AT foot (that crushes the snowspeeder) next to it which is just in neutral gray primer. And the color of the AT-AT is way much closer to that gray primer. There's too much yellow and green in the aged concrete IMHO !
Click to expand...

And thanks, Julien!

I started by painting the Walker Reefer Gray, but that was too dark so I tried the aged concrete over that. I get some nice weathering effects from scratching through the Aged Concrete to the gray, and I'm hoping that with weathering, washes, and perhaps a light overspray in the end with Reefer Gray I can achieve something that look right. It's a roundabout way of getting there, but this is just an experiment anyway. I'd love to know how you plan to finish your Walker!

Thanks again for the information.

Dave

Sorry, I went a bit off topic there, don't mean to hijack the thread and turn it into a Walker painting discussion.
 
I got a slightly different result (original on the left, mine on the right), I hope you don't mind David:

corrected_chart_floquil.jpg
 
I don't mind at all, Stonky. In fact, thanks very much. I need to recheck my color correction because yours looks more like the colors I sprayed. What method did you use?
 
Thanks, Stonky. I figured, but just wanted to make sure. My white balance, black point, white point method is obviously too simplistic.
 
stonky,

Thanks for the color correction tip. I finally took a crack at it and it works really well. I've been looking at base colors for my 1/72nd scale FM X-Wing and sprayed a couple of test colors. Sorry these aren't Floquil, but it's still on topic as far as trying to get accurate colors is concerned. Here is a before and after comparison of four colors I sprayed and scanned. On the left is the original untouched TIFF file and on the right is the same image corrected Stonky's way:

X-Wing Grays Compared.JPG

I'm very happy to say the corrected colors look just like what I sprayed.

I do have a question though, Stonky, I assume each color chart could be a little different. What's the best way to determine the RGB values for the gray squares on the one I have for instance? Scanning it will just add the "secret sauce" as you called it, that my scanner is adding to everything.

BTW, if anyone is curious, the colors in the test are, from top to bottom:

1. Model Master Camoflage Gray--the one many consider the standard for an X-Wing basecoat.
2. Vallejo Model Air White Gray
3. Vallejo Model Color White Gray (Confusing that the two colors have the same name and look so different, but that's the way it is.)
4. Micro Lux Reefer White--I did this so I'd have a white reference. Micro Lux is made for Micro Mark by Vallejo and is meant to duplicate the original Floquil color.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Just to make it clear how accurate Stonky's method is, here is his image of my CC attempt on the left, his CC in the middle, and then my attempt using his method on the right, but flipped so the colors are together, making it easier to judge how similar the results are:

Stonky Compare Aged Concrete CC.jpg

I see the tiniest bit more red in mine, but it's pretty darned close.
 
I'm glad it's working out!

VFX Freak said:
I do have a question though, Stonky, I assume each color chart could be a little different. What's the best way to determine the RGB values for the gray squares on the one I have for instance? Scanning it will just add the "secret sauce" as you called it, that my scanner is adding to everything.
Click to expand...

That's a good question! The sRGB values that I used were sampled from a bunch of charts and the average values are what we're using, in an attempt to eliminate an outlier from messing everything up. That said, if your chart is way out of whack, you're right, it's going to pollute the solution. :) If you have some confidence in your monitor and the colors are coming out to what you'd expect, then I guess you can assume that your chart lies somewhere with a reasonable margin of error. You're supposed to replace it every so often, so that it doesn't drift (sunlight, etc.).

Thanks for the color swatch reference, much appreciated!
 
I'm not sure if this picture was posted in the past. This is a color comparison picture of the AT-AT studio model and Tim Ketzer's MR AT-AT limited edition. The green parts on this picture are the original AT-AT studio model parts.
I hope this helps!
atat_colors.jpg
 
kh39 said:
I'm not sure if this picture was posted in the past. This is a color comparison picture of the AT-AT studio model and Tim Ketzer's MR AT-AT limited edition. The green parts on this picture are the original AT-AT studio model parts.
I hope this helps!
View attachment 519460
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting this, KH, does anyone know which AT-AT these parts might have come from? They match bits that are missing from the Berg model. I'm curious whether or not these parts have received the restoration treatment.

I definitely see a warm color, like the aged concrete paint, layered over gray.
 
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