Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Pre-release)

The problem i have with that is if he knew of her back then, why stash her on jakku? Just take her and mold her from a young age and you get the warrior you want. Waiting until their old enough and strong enough to say know and possibly take you down is quite, you know, stupid.

I do think he left her on Jakku with Unqar Plut and we did learn from the Aftermath books Jakku has some impor in the Force. Palpatine has a major interest in the planet.
 
The problem i have with that is if he knew of her back then, why stash her on jakku? Just take her and mold her from a young age and you get the warrior you want. Waiting until their old enough and strong enough to say know and possibly take you down is quite, you know, stupid.

I remember making this point a couple weeks ago.
https://www.therpf.com/showthread.php?t=216229&page=234&p=4333170&viewfull=1#post4333170

I wholeheartedly agree. Snoke would not leave her on a planet like that if he had found her as a child.

When Snoke is saying "when I found you...." in TLJ trailer his voice is echoing like in a very large room. Like the room Kylo and Hux are in with the large Snoke hologram. I think that's exactly what is happening again. He is talking to Kylo in that big room. When you watch the TFA Snoke scenes, same echo.

He is not talking to Rey, saying he found her. Which is what a lot of "he found Rey" theories seem to be based from.
 
When Snoke is saying "when I found you...." in TLJ trailer his voice is echoing like in a very large room. Like the room Kylo and Hux are in with the large Snoke hologram. I think that's exactly what is happening again. He is talking to Kylo in that big room. When you watch the TFA Snoke scenes, same echo.

He is not talking to Rey, saying he found her. Which is what a lot of "he found Rey" theories seem to be based from.


You don't know that for sure. Snoke and Rey both end up in the large, red room in the last trailer:

Snoke_Rey_red_room.jpg
 
I like it. Those who resist the notion of Rey turning are too precious about the character. Disney says the story won't go the way we expect, and turning the new hero is about as unexpected as it gets. I hope they're not just blowing smoke and actually do make some bold choices like that.

It could be an interesting twist, it just seems unlikely based on what we already know. In true fable tradition, those drawn to the dark — Palpatine, Vader, Kylo — are all selfishly motivated. They place their own desires above the well-being of others. There's one simple scene in TFA that definitively tells the audience which side of that coin Rey is on:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eK4e3fFqwlI
 
I'm more inclined to think Rey will turn. In ESB, Luke was tempted and resisted...perhaps she won't resist. Would allow them to follow the "pattern" but subvert it, do something new (of course EU fans know ALL jedi become dark at one point or another haha). Would be super gutsy of Disney to take their beloved protagonist and make her a bad guy, but I think the mouse has more nerve than a lot of people give them credit for. See: Jyn Erso.

you guys are really late to the party!
https://www.therpf.com/showthread.php?t=273508
 
My thoughts/guesses based on what we've seen:

Early, large-scale assault sending characters scattering like the Battle of Hoth in ESB (an imperial officer will likely be chastised/killed for a poor tactical decision as in ESB)
Luke's going to train Rey like Yoda did for him in ESB (expected and necessary)
Rey's going to go into/under the tree for a similar experience that Luke had in the cave in ESB
Rey's going to lift an X-wing out of the water like Yoda did in ESB
While Rey's training, Phasma's going to be hunting the other characters like Fett did in ESB (this hunt may even result in Rey sensing her friends are in trouble as Luke did in ESB)
The Falcon bursting from the ground is reminiscent of the escape from the space slug in ESB or the Death Star in ROTJ (since it looks like they lose the radar dish again)
Snoke's going to work to turn Rey to the dark side as the Emperor wanted Vader to do to Luke in ESB (perhaps during this struggle we'll learn Rey's lineage as we did Luke's in ESB)
Ren will try to entice Rey to join him and overthrow Snoke as Vader did with Luke in ESB and ROTJ

However, I'm hopeful for an original story (there are no original stories, hero's journey, etc., etc.) to be woven around those echoes despite the "rhymes" and "history repeating itself."

I've got my tickets and I'll be there regardless...
 
I've only seen the last trailer, and now the ad... but my predictions on the overall Rey/Luke/Kylo arc (from what I've seen and what I can guess by story tropes and the attempt to spin them) are as follows:

(I note here that these may have been discussed or theorized, but I haven't been following theories... so maybe I'm repeating them)


Rey - Is turned by Snoke

They don't want to repeat story beats again, so gotta flip em. Someone above said something about not holding Rey as so precious. I agree. No one wants to see their hero fail, but that's exactly what happened in ESB.. seeing a hero smacked down is good for the audience. You need your "all is lost" moment, and in a trilogy, that would be at the end of the second flick. So Rey will turn. People will be upset. But I was upset when Indy couldn't fight the Blood of Kali.... So suck it up.


Luke - Is brought in to bring back Rey after he turns her down and ends her training... leading her to Snoke.

This is a weird one, and the one I am fuzziest on... Luke will be a hero figure, but not til the end of this flick. We got introduced to old lost Luke in TFA, we can't jump right into him being a hero cuz it's not earned. For some people "The Last Jedi" will be their first movie... always have to look at it like that. If the person Rey is seeking just says "Hey you found me, great, lets go kick ass!", that won't work for viewers. You need a "Too old to begin the training!" type reluctance. So since they can't have it be the same as ESB or feel the nerd wrath, this time you'll have Luke train her, get scared, and cut her off. She will leave because of that... and now he's responsible for her being open to the dark side...


Kylo - The failed student battles with his guilt, and turns to help the resistance.

This is going to be a hard one to Swallow... but I think Kylos gonna be burned by Snoke's love of Rey. He killed his FATHER for Snoke. His feelings that Snoke has eyes for Rey will be what makes him question whether Snoke IS using him... and that will make him not kill Leia. And once he realizes he's been used, he will try and make things right... and that will start with him ending the movie holding his hand out to his ex teacher to say "let's doooo thiiiiiis" and go get Rey back.


Finn and Poe - I dunno... they're just gonna be blowing up whatever the bad guy army has planned.


I'm almost positive that's the way this is going... and at the same time, I'll probably end up wrong about everything because of one thing I can't wrap my head around...


I just can't see them letting Rey be saved by two dudes.


Every trick or treat group at my door this halloween had a Rey involved.... girls have a hero. Can they wait a movie to see her fall and come back from it?


But how if Rey doesn't fall, it would be completely uninteresting to follow her story further.


So would Rian be able to talk KK into letting him break Rey, so that she can come back even stronger in JJ's finale?


I hope so.
 
I dunno, I really don't think we'll see Luke turn to the dark side. I get the feeling he's simply seen enough bloodshed and destruction to realize it's a self-perpetuating cycle, with or without his involvement. You blow up one Death Star and they just build another. You get rid of one, deformed, old evil geezer and another one takes his place whispering in the ears of the naive and susceptible, "join me and rule the galaxy." It never ends and he's had enough.

I suspect Luke is simply looking for much bigger answers now and doesn't want to get dragged into the same, old mess.

Still, it would be pretty cool to see him take the Falcon for a spin.
Ok that I can be onboard with. Well said. Man. Im flabbergasted when people say they arent excited for this movie, I feel bad for them. Im super stoked, cant wait. Hopefully there is a porg massacre and the one with chewie is the last one. One can hope!
 
I've only seen the last trailer, and now the ad... but my predictions on the overall Rey/Luke/Kylo arc (from what I've seen and what I can guess by story tropes and the attempt to spin them) are as follows:

(I note here that these may have been discussed or theorized, but I haven't been following theories... so maybe I'm repeating them)


Rey - Is turned by Snoke

They don't want to repeat story beats again, so gotta flip em. Someone above said something about not holding Rey as so precious. I agree. No one wants to see their hero fail, but that's exactly what happened in ESB.. seeing a hero smacked down is good for the audience. You need your "all is lost" moment, and in a trilogy, that would be at the end of the second flick. So Rey will turn. People will be upset. But I was upset when Indy couldn't fight the Blood of Kali.... So suck it up.


Luke - Is brought in to bring back Rey after he turns her down and ends her training... leading her to Snoke.

This is a weird one, and the one I am fuzziest on... Luke will be a hero figure, but not til the end of this flick. We got introduced to old lost Luke in TFA, we can't jump right into him being a hero cuz it's not earned. For some people "The Last Jedi" will be their first movie... always have to look at it like that. If the person Rey is seeking just says "Hey you found me, great, lets go kick ass!", that won't work for viewers. You need a "Too old to begin the training!" type reluctance. So since they can't have it be the same as ESB or feel the nerd wrath, this time you'll have Luke train her, get scared, and cut her off. She will leave because of that... and now he's responsible for her being open to the dark side...


Kylo - The failed student battles with his guilt, and turns to help the resistance.

This is going to be a hard one to Swallow... but I think Kylos gonna be burned by Snoke's love of Rey. He killed his FATHER for Snoke. His feelings that Snoke has eyes for Rey will be what makes him question whether Snoke IS using him... and that will make him not kill Leia. And once he realizes he's been used, he will try and make things right... and that will start with him ending the movie holding his hand out to his ex teacher to say "let's doooo thiiiiiis" and go get Rey back.


Finn and Poe - I dunno... they're just gonna be blowing up whatever the bad guy army has planned.


I'm almost positive that's the way this is going... and at the same time, I'll probably end up wrong about everything because of one thing I can't wrap my head around...


I just can't see them letting Rey be saved by two dudes.


Every trick or treat group at my door this halloween had a Rey involved.... girls have a hero. Can they wait a movie to see her fall and come back from it?


But how if Rey doesn't fall, it would be completely uninteresting to follow her story further.


So would Rian be able to talk KK into letting him break Rey, so that she can come back even stronger in JJ's finale?


I hope so.

I don't think they need Rey to fall to evil, but she can certainly be broken at the end of this film. Sure that echo's ESB but it also echo's three act storytelling since Aristotle. I don't think Kylo can ever become a "good guy" as it would be hard for the younger audience to accept that. He's their Darth Vader, he needs to stay bad otherwise you could loose them.
 
I don't think they need Rey to fall to evil, but she can certainly be broken at the end of this film. Sure that echo's ESB but it also echo's three act storytelling since Aristotle. I don't think Kylo can ever become a "good guy" as it would be hard for the younger audience to accept that. He's their Darth Vader, he needs to stay bad otherwise you could loose them.

Right, Kylo may at some point in the next chapter regret his actions but he can never go back. He's the cautionary tale in this story.
 
I don't think they need Rey to fall to evil, but she can certainly be broken at the end of this film. Sure that echo's ESB but it also echo's three act storytelling since Aristotle. I don't think Kylo can ever become a "good guy" as it would be hard for the younger audience to accept that. He's their Darth Vader, he needs to stay bad otherwise you could loose them.


Nah, I think it's plausible that Kylo's redemption arc starts earlier than Vader's. probably in the last quarter of this movie...

Then an entire movie of "Hey... we trust this guy?" and Luke being "He'll pay for his crap, but when this is over" - But then Luke is constantly at odds with Kylo... pissed at him for Han, and his school, but knowing the dark side and knowing his father's redemption... and knowing his part in Kylo's turn...


The single least interesting things in the prequels was the relationship between Qui-gon and Obi wan... no conflict... boring.

Then you have Obi and Anakin... and it was still boring. COULD have been great if done right...

Luke and Kylo though? They have a past.

Kylo and Luke together, working through their crap in the last episode... That can't just get resolved by Kylo throwing Snoke down a shaft in the final moments of episode 9


Maybe it's all just wishful thinking...
 
Nah, I think it's plausible that Kylo's redemption arc starts earlier than Vader's. probably in the last quarter of this movie...

Then an entire movie of "Hey... we trust this guy?" and Luke being "He'll pay for his crap, but when this is over" - But then Luke is constantly at odds with Kylo... pissed at him for Han, and his school, but knowing the dark side and knowing his father's redemption... and knowing his part in Kylo's turn...


The single least interesting things in the prequels was the relationship between Qui-gon and Obi wan... no conflict... boring.

Then you have Obi and Anakin... and it was still boring. COULD have been great if done right...

Luke and Kylo though? They have a past.

Kylo and Luke together, working through their crap in the last episode... That can't just get resolved by Kylo throwing Snoke down a shaft in the final moments of episode 9


Maybe it's all just wishful thinking...

Again, the wish fulfillment of us adults discussing our hopes is wildly divergent from a young kid who was 8 when TFA came out and is now watching this. Kylo killed his father, it would be a tough turn to make for a big part of the audience. Sure it might be compelling but this is STAR WARS not Game of Thrones.
 
Right, Kylo may at some point in the next chapter regret his actions but he can never go back. He's the cautionary tale in this story.

You can realize the error of your ways and fight against the recognized evil (snoke/FO) - without becoming a good guy. He could surrender to the authorities as well to take his punishment at the end of IX and then they'll have an extended break to decide how to handle him further.

It's funny that from '77-2000 or so, the OT was Luke's story and all of a sudden with the PT the whole thing became 'Vader's story' - at least according to George (and some here agree, though not me). They could extrapolate it and let this actually be Ben's story. Not that the are, but they could. So, just because 7 implies it's Rey's story - doesn't mean that it actually is how it ends up.
 
Again, the wish fulfillment of us adults discussing our hopes is wildly divergent from a young kid who was 8 when TFA came out and is now watching this. Kylo killed his father, it would be a tough turn to make for a big part of the audience. Sure it might be compelling but this is STAR WARS not Game of Thrones.

But I like to believe the people writing these scripts are having a more modern sensibility to storytelling and knowing that you can't just regurgitate plot points or you end up with TFA backlash.. Ghostbusters Backlash... soft reboot backlash...

These are less my hopes as a fan, but hopes in pushing away from the expected with what's happening with scripts these days.

If Star Wars wants legs... they need to be "PG" Game of Thrones.


And I don't think Kylo needs to be accepted by the audience... They SHOULD still hate him... I WANT them to hate him. I want Luke to accept his help, but also hate what he's done.


But then I was the kid who loved any time GI JOE and Cobra would team up briefly against a common foe.
 
You can realize the error of your ways and fight against the recognized evil (snoke/FO) - without becoming a good guy. He could surrender to the authorities as well to take his punishment at the end of IX and then they'll have an extended break to decide how to handle him further.

It's funny that from '77-2000 or so, the OT was Luke's story and all of a sudden with the PT the whole thing became 'Vader's story' - at least according to George (and some here agree, though not me). They could extrapolate it and let this actually be Ben's story. Not that the are, but they could. So, just because 7 implies it's Rey's story - doesn't mean that it actually is how it ends up.

Yeah, all good points. But I still think redeeming Kylo would be a very difficult thing to do convincingly. I think it would be more dramatically satisfying to have him suffer emotionally over his actions for the next two chapters and then have a personal epiphany where he realizes the error of his terrible, selfish ways. I mean these movies are basically good, old fashioned morality plays. I think he can be forgiven but there has to be a reckoning equal to his bad deeds. But who knows, it's just fun to speculate.
 
You don't know that for sure. Snoke and Rey both end up in the large, red room in the last trailer:

View attachment 770688

No one knows anything for sure. This is all opinion. I would have thought stating "I think..." is a sufficient sign of that.

Anyways, I don't think his voice would boom and echo out like that in such a situation. I think that scene will sound more like when Luke and Vader fight in ROTJ. Where the emperor's voice is pretty much normal.

The booming echo is like the huge hologram. Meant to make him seem imposing. Which makes me think he's talking to Kylo in the same way as TFA.
 
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I think, if Kylo hadn't killed his dad (because Harrison wanted to kill off the character), there would be some way to turn Kylo around, but not after he shoved a saber through his own dad! I mean, c'mon!
 
I think at the end of TLJ we're gonna have two, young and powerful "Jedi" that have abandoned their former "masters." I don't think Rey and Kylo will be together at the end... but, they might be looking for one another - maybe for vengeance on Rey's part and Kylo, well - I think Kylo's super confused and just wants answers that he think Rey might be a part of.
 
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