Buck mold from unknown source, recasting?

Hey folks, I've been into props and reproductions for a little while now, long enough to know that recasting is frowned upon in the community (well, at least those with a sense of honor and respect for others).

Earlier this year, browsing through a second hand shop with a section of vintage Star Wars items, I came across (and purchased) a gypsum buck mold of a Scout Trooper faceplate. There are no marks on it to indicate the source. It appears to possibly have been cast from a Don Post mask, but I'm not 100% sure.

As it's gypsum, it's quite heavy. All I really want is a wall hanger, and maybe a custom helmet to use for the Dark Empire costume club.

For personal use, I don't think this is a problem as it relates to recasting. But, to help offset the material cost or either molding it, or making a vacu-form machine, I'd consider selling a few in a limited run.

With that in mind, would the selling of a limited number be considered recasting?

Again, I own the buck, but do not know it's original source, and no way to really figure it out. If it helps to identify it (I know the RPF community runs wide and has more knowledge than I ever could), it was purchased in Eaton Rapids, Michigan, a small town south of Lansing.

That is a really grey area. So much of the star wars stuff has been recast over the years. There was master bucks made for production and then it seems a heap of copies have been made from vacuum pulled parts from those . So the only "artist" is the one who made the very first buck. Everything after that is a copy or a copy of a copy. Some armour manufactures even use the point "masters taken off molds of screen used master" as a selling point to accuracy of their product.

When it comes to the look of trooper armour, there is only so much "room for change" before it looks totally wrong.

As for you selling them, that is a hard one.

You say you own the buck but you admit you did not make it. That in itself is a step in the right direction. Recasting gets nasty when someone acquires an item like that and then claims they made it.

So not condoning the making of anything from this but if you are to at least state "copies are made from a found master part. The original artist is unknown". That would at least take some the BS claim of ownership that is the cause of the problem with recasting away.

For personal use, you can do what you want to your property, however selling copies may still land you in hot water.

There is selling to cover costs and there is selling to make a profit.

This is just my view on this.
Hopefully others with a better understanding can chime in here.



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If the mold was made from a commercial source, yeah, it'd still be recasting, but I'd say the best way to ascertain that would be to post a few photos over in the Star Wars section of the forum - I'll bet within a day or two you'll have a few scout trooper obsessives confirm its origins if it's a known sculpt.

Here's how I see it.
Starting this thread is a great idea. You've documented the desire to do the right thing. Go ahead and make copies and sell them. If the originator finds out (make sure he has 100 percent proves it) apologize, immediately stop selling them and direct him to this thread.

I'm kinda with Funky on this one.

You have given full disclosure so far (as we know)

You 'purchased' the mold.. so currently you are the rightful owner.

The 'grey area' comes into play because of it lineage before you purchased it.

Was it a bootleg mold? (who knows)
Was it a legit mold sold, sold.. and eventually sold to you (meaning you have full rights IMO)..(who knows)

It could be either...

I think with full disclosure and the willingness to accept that some day, someone may come out of the wood work to 'claim' the work... and you're ok with pulling things down... I see noo harm/offense being committed.

Lots of talent and talented people here.. with a HUGE reach within the community & scene itself. I'm sure someone will be able to shed some light.

Good luck!

Funky said:

Here's how I see it.
Starting this thread is a great idea. You've documented the desire to do the right thing. Go ahead and make copies and sell them. If the originator finds out (make sure he has 100 percent proves it) apologize, immediately stop selling them and direct him to this thread.

Click to expand...

A great post. Well said.

In the case of STAR WARS, who (apart from Lusas Film and now Disney) actually "owns" the design or can lay claim to owning this piece?

As I understand, even the guy that made the original stormtrooper bucks (Ainsworth?) doesn't own the stormtrooper design.

Thanks for the input. From my conversation with a local prop maker, his interpretation of whether or not it's a "recast" (quotes to indicate the frowned upon type) depends a lot upon whether or not the company who made the original still exists. Like casting and selling copies of a currently produced Rubies product is bad, but if it was cast from a Don Post product, it's okay because Don Post is no longer in business. If it's a currently licensed product and currently in business, it's frowned upon. Like the guy who recasts Rubies wolverine claws and sells them for a profit with only minor alterations.

Being that I purchased the Buck from a second hand shop, with no trace of its lineage, I was thinking along the lines of doing whatever I want for personal use, but to sell copies only to recoup costs for production materials. In my opinion, the previous owner of the mold lost any rights to it upon selling it. I previously owned a mold for a Mandalorian helmet, purchased from the original artist, with the rights to produce as many as I wanted. I subsequently sold the mold to another prop maker. I never offered the pulls commercially, but would have given full disclosure of the original source of the mold if I had chosen to do so.

So yes, if I do decide to make a run of these, I will offer full disclosure as to the history of the mold, and let the consumer decide.

Now then there's the question of whether or not there is even a commercial interest for just the face plate of the helmet. Which is another thread entirely.

Recasting depends on the source that was molded. It's all hypothetical without having seen pictures of the mold or even a pull from it. I'm usually of the stance: if you didn't make the mold and don't know where it comes from, don't use it to sell casts from. Instead, research it first, as you are doing now, and it may turn out to just be molded from a licensed helmet, or molded from a fan made helmet, OR... molded from an original. If you showed detailed pictures of the mold imprint and was able to make a cast from it, I'm sure people here could tell you what you have.

Definitely have this thread moved to the Star Wars section and I hope you'll post pictures. I've heard of others who have lucked into getting molds off original props, so the chance is there, however slim. But it's there.

I'll take some pictures and get them posted here soon. I haven't made the silicone mold from the buck yet. I think I may have enough, and maybe enough resin for a cast, but I will still need to make the silicone mold and the shell.