Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release)
- Thread starter dbuck
- Start date
Pontillism. Your experience was not my experience. Saw it at the first (public) showing here in Seattle opening night. Packed auditorium gasped and laughed and cheered at pretty much the same things I did. Lots of people impatient to get to their cars after so they could start talking about it with the people they went with so they didn't spoil anything for the people waiting in line for the next showing. A lot of people I overheard making plans for when they'd go see it next. I have a pretty diverse bunch of friends and Facebook-friends. Some didn't like it. A substantial majority liked to loved it. Many of whom have already seen it at least a second time. Most of the criticism I see levelled at pacing and the general agreement is it would have been better at three-plus hours or broken into two episodes. The specific complaints I've seen have all been utterly subjective. I found the opening scene of Poe winding Hux up to stall the First Order wonderful and perfectly in character. Luke throwing the saber over his shoulder was a shock and got a solid laugh from my theater, and it served to establish his attitude and arc for the story rather than being a throwaway (ha) gag for no purpose. Et cetera and so on.
I'm long since used to the fact that people are most likely to speak up to complain rather than compliment. You can see this everywhere in society. A more studied statistician can probably give a better number, but from what I recall the average most pollsters and customer-service types figure from is that, barring substantial objective factors (tainted batch of this, exploding that...), one negative opinion represents ten neutral-to-positive ones who didn't see fit to comment. There's a tacit error margin depending on the thing being evaluated, so it can skew from, like, 98% positive-to-neutral to 2% negative, to 80% positive-to-neutral to 20% negative.
So with the movie open in wide release for only a week now, I think it is too early to say whether it's an absolute "mandate of the people" or just some especially loud hardcore fans whose expectations weren't met. I was born in '74, saw Star Wars on it's first release with my parents, watched it many, many, many more times on laserdisc and VHS over the years, absorbed the EU as it evolved (and before it was called the EU), have beat all comers at Star Wars trivia, and consider myself to be as true a fan as anyone. I have at least liked at least part of each Star Wars movie that's come along. I also have issues with each Star Wars movie that's come along, even minorly. Including this one. But I like far more than I don't, and what I take issue with is largely not what others take issue with (nor what a lot - not all, but still a lot -- of casual viewers take issue with). I'm happy to defend the parts I feel work. Same with the Prequels. I will also happily go into what I feel ought to have been handled differently. In a decade or three we'll see how things have shaken out.
--Jonah
CT1138
Sr Member
But it's not. Ben says the Empire hunted down and murdered the Jedi. He never touches on why... ever, and neither does the Emperor.
What I'm saying is that RotJ gave half of the truth. We learn later that there's underlying reasoning behind the reasoning given.
The guy voiced one of the best incarnations of the Joker for close to two decades, not to mention numerous cartoon villains in between.
Of all the so called sins commited by the ST, this is by far the one that irks me the most. The boys in marketing tried forcing this character. They wanted another Boba Fett. Boba Fett's popularity stems from fan choice to make him popular. Lucas just wanted a badass, futuristic looking bounty hunter. He didn't expect him to become popular. Phasma was always just around to sell toys and t-shirts.
It's like a chase between a Nimitz-class aircraft carrier, and an Iowa-class battleship. Both are huge ships with a lot of thrust keeping them moving, but they're so big that they can both only move so fast, and the speed at which they move appears even slower because they're both so large.
DarthLee
Sr Member
He's nude?
Axlotl
Master Member
Like this comment if you're posting naked.
DarthLee
Sr Member
Speaking of nude.... I believe (and correct me if I'm wrong), the only other time in SW history we had a shirtless guy, was Luke in the Bacta tank? And he was shirtless for healing purposes. An Anakin waking up from a dream? And now Kilo..lol
CT1138
Sr Member
Also Oola, but that was unintentional.
Mr Webber
Master Member
You obviously havent seen Kylo`s" Cut like Snokes Ring" instagram page........Oh...:lol
DarthLee
Sr Member
Oola la...lol.. was see through... And I dont care what was said... she bounced around very intentionally..
Hunk a Junk
Sr Member
Of course. I never said it was. But mine is also not an isolated incident. I've heard from other fans about the reactions at their screenings, including people posting on YouTube, and they've given similar reports. Undoubtedly there was a wide variety of reactions. My point is that dismissing the backlash and the negative fan reactions as insignificant or misguided isn't going to end well. And I say that to be helpful. The backlash -- whether fair or not -- is real. Believe me, as a prequel fan I'm VERY sensitive to when people assume their subjective opinion is everyone's objective reality. That's not what I'm saying.
And just as a comparison, I was at every midnight first showing for every prequel film too. Cheers, laughs, and clapping at the end. There are videos online of fan reactions at those screenings as well. The prequels were also all rated "fresh" on RT prior to 2012 when TPM 3D gave reviewers another bite at the apple.
Archive&Future
Sr Member
https://www.avclub.com/star-wars-fans-should-remember-being-a-fan-doesnt-mea-1821431113
A worthwhile read.
When I saw the film yesterday I was simultaneously exhilarated, bemused, appalled and in love all at once.
It's not perfect, but with the exception of Empire I truly don't think any of them are.
However I love them all to bits, all for different reasons.
TLJ took risks, it was bold and new and unpredictable- for the first time since I watched the original trilogy as an 8 year old, I finally felt genuine suspense and threat in a Star Wars film.
There were utterly stupid moments, but also gorgeous, nuanced and emotional moments.
It took those parts of the prequels which worked and made them shine- made the sprawling galactic mess somehow more united.
In my humble and relatively unimportant opinion, I wanted to see these beloved stories evolve away from the rigidity the franchise has slowly solidified into.
Let's not forget that George's original film was a bizarre and unusual clustercuss of genre influences, visual style and editing choices; but it worked...sure, TLJ will never be the 'Star Wars' bestowed on the world in 1977, but it finally felt like a film which wasn't a circlejerk over that which came before.
It's its own thing, I loved it, lots of you hate it, but at the end of the day...nobody is taking away those treasured original films.
They'll still be there, through great films and weaker films.
It's a strange cultural zeitgeist we all love to hate and hate to love.
A worthwhile read.
When I saw the film yesterday I was simultaneously exhilarated, bemused, appalled and in love all at once.
It's not perfect, but with the exception of Empire I truly don't think any of them are.
However I love them all to bits, all for different reasons.
TLJ took risks, it was bold and new and unpredictable- for the first time since I watched the original trilogy as an 8 year old, I finally felt genuine suspense and threat in a Star Wars film.
There were utterly stupid moments, but also gorgeous, nuanced and emotional moments.
It took those parts of the prequels which worked and made them shine- made the sprawling galactic mess somehow more united.
In my humble and relatively unimportant opinion, I wanted to see these beloved stories evolve away from the rigidity the franchise has slowly solidified into.
Let's not forget that George's original film was a bizarre and unusual clustercuss of genre influences, visual style and editing choices; but it worked...sure, TLJ will never be the 'Star Wars' bestowed on the world in 1977, but it finally felt like a film which wasn't a circlejerk over that which came before.
It's its own thing, I loved it, lots of you hate it, but at the end of the day...nobody is taking away those treasured original films.
They'll still be there, through great films and weaker films.
It's a strange cultural zeitgeist we all love to hate and hate to love.
spacebob
Sr Member
Seen it twice now and although the bad bits are still there I don't mind so much about them. I enjoyed it more.
like Haystack Hair I felt suspense in this one even on the second viewing.
For what it's worth it was received very well at the showing I was at and still is essentially positively liked at the top of the page here.
I still liked TFA but I felt no suspense whatsoever, at all. By the time we got to starkillerbase everything had played out like ANH so literally that I just knew without question that they would blow it up.
It feels like BR2049 when everybody was saying Deckard wouldn't just hide (funnily enough like Luke), I loved it the way it was and it doesn't really matter to me that some people didn't like it.
When 2049 goes online, I'll watch it and they won't.
That's life, we can't all like the same things and don't need to. For instance I don't like carrots
Or parsnips.
like Haystack Hair I felt suspense in this one even on the second viewing.
For what it's worth it was received very well at the showing I was at and still is essentially positively liked at the top of the page here.
I still liked TFA but I felt no suspense whatsoever, at all. By the time we got to starkillerbase everything had played out like ANH so literally that I just knew without question that they would blow it up.
It feels like BR2049 when everybody was saying Deckard wouldn't just hide (funnily enough like Luke), I loved it the way it was and it doesn't really matter to me that some people didn't like it.
When 2049 goes online, I'll watch it and they won't.
That's life, we can't all like the same things and don't need to. For instance I don't like carrots
Or parsnips.
Last edited by a moderator:
jlee562
Sr Member
Indeed, thank you for sharing!
Zuiun
Sr Member
I would argue that the situations you're presenting are vastly different.
Being on patrol, where combat isn't expected, is different than sending fighters against armed cruisers with fighters of their own.
Chasing a single ship, even if it is the Falcon, is different than sending fighters against armed cruisers with fighters of their own.
On the one hand, I get it that the Empire / First Order has never really seemed to show a regard for individual soldiers' lives, seeming to prefer overwhelming force. On the other hand, the decision to wait out the Resistance ships, siege-like, didn't bother me because the logic of it is sound (even if a little out of character for the bad guys).
Zuiun
Sr Member
I think this pretty much sums up exactly where I am with the film after the second viewing. I just don't share your opinion that Empire is perfect.
I mean, it's still my favorite film in the entire franchise, but I say that while also acknowledging that there are so many things in it that bother the hell out of me.
Can Star Wars recover?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottm...worldwide-can-star-wars-recover/#657657e6146e
https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottm...worldwide-can-star-wars-recover/#657657e6146e
Jedi-72
Sr Member
When people describe this movie as being "bold" or "fresh", etc., I truly need someone to explain to me what the hell they are referring to. Every single thing about this movie was a poorly executed rehash of Empire and Jedi. Some scenes are even framed identically with nearly verbatim dialog. I truly don't understand what people see as original or bold here, with the exception of wasting Luke as a character. I really just think it's a case of the emperor having no clothes on, and some people are just marveling at the fine weave of his supposed robes. It's mystifying.
DarthLee
Sr Member
Can Star Wars recover?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottm...worldwide-can-star-wars-recover/#657657e6146e
Not taking sides... just a thought
Maybe some people, did create an account.. just for that reason.. They saw 90% (polled people) liked it.. and they said to themselves.. "wait... hold on... I went with 10 friends and 6 said..hell no, not a good Star Wars film... that/these polls cant be accurate"
You have to admit... these polls make it seem like these people who were voting.. were "OMG..like this is the best film ever dude"
And maybe it got under some people's skin... so they create an account...
doctorDWwho
Sr Member
I'm holding out till after Christmas to see it again, but I feel like this is where I'll be at the second time around. Luke and the weird, very un star wars cinematography are the only things I have real problems with (well, as real as problems with a movie can get), everything else is just stuff that bothers me.
Also I'll point out that I'm a fairly young millenial, not all of them are totally in love with it, or, as contrast, just whining about it for the sake of whining.
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