Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Pre-release)

Killed Han without hesitation? Have we watched the same movie?

Earlier in TFA:
SNOKE: There's something more. The droid we seek is aboard the Millennium Falcon. In the hands of your father, Han Solo.
Kylo Ren reacts with subtle, but real, surprise.
KYLO: He means nothing to me.
SNOKE: Even you, master of the Knights of Ren, have never faced such a test.
KYLO: By the grace of your training, I will not be seduced.


Also, the scene with Han and Kylo on the bridge. Granted he was talking about how he wanted to stay firmly in the Dark Side, however he was clearly torn between following Snoke or coming back to the Light.
 
Really?. I just saw it as more bad writing about a flawed character. Not flawed as in his character, flawed as in the character.

The only point of interest, in my opinion in him for this film is whether JJ moves his scar back or not.
 
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He works fine for what his context in the story is - a mad dog that needs put down.

But this is Star Wars, so he'll be "redeemed", I'm sure.
I'd rather see him put down. Some crimes are unforgivable.
Problem #173 with the prequels: Little Orphan Annie murders a room full of innocent children.
Sorry, but that's unforgivable, and transforms his redemption at the end of ROTJ from really cool, to infuriatingly baffling.
Luke should have cut that A-hole in half.


Therein lies the problem for me in how Luke’s character was written in TLJ ..., all major characters from the previous film/s in fact .

Both are children of well known figures ( in universe ) , both are placed in a situation where taking a life is to be rewarded with some payoff..., yet one rejected the personal power/ prestige to be received by taking such action and is subsequently depicted as a failure , come cowardly recluse - whilst the other is rewarded by remaining pretty much the same tantrum throwing , pathetic character he was in the previous film . IMO .
 
My only hope for Ep IX is seeing someone bump their head on a door.

*First trilogy, first movie - stormtrooper on the Death Star
*Second trilogy, second movie - Jango Fett on Slave 1
*Third trilogy, third movie -???

If JJ doesn't keep with tradition, I'll be disappointed.
 
Why is Rey too powerful? The force is the force. Some have it more than others. Rey is awesome.

The problem with this is that one still needs training and guidance to control the force. It doesn't come naturally. Rey went from thinking the Force and the Jedi were a myth, to executing a perfect mind trick on her second attempt ever. She mastered telekinesis, against a trained Jedi turned darksider, who was also pulling for the Saber (a feat which, a few days later, she couldn't manage). She bested that same Jedi turned darksider in lightsaber combat. And before anyone says she grew up fighting, I know she did. It's not that she's not a talented fighter, but against someone who can predict and counter your every move before you even make it? Nah, I'm not buying it.

In fact, the only time Rey failed at anything was with her first encounter with Kylo on Takodana, which was ultimately pointless.

She's not had to face failure. She's not had to sacrifice anything. She's not had to confront her own inner dark side.

In the OT, Luke failed as often as not. His greatest victory was the impossible shot to destroy the death star.
Empire, he failed time and time again. He should have understood then, that failure was the greatest teacher, not thirty years later when ghost Yoda had to spell it out for him.
ROTJ, he finally achieved greatness by refusing the Emperor, refusing to kill Vader, but only at the last instant when he realized he was already going down the same path as Anakin. When he saw Vaders mechanical arm, instead of severed flesh. That obviously triggered the idea that he could more machine than man, too.

His mercy, was as much for his own sake as it was for Vader.

Rey is too powerful because she hasn't had to grow to her potential. Luke did, Anakin did, Obi Wan did, Ahsoka did. Every Jedi has had to start small, with only a tiny bit of control over the force, and grow to become a Padawan, a knight, a master, and eventually a grand master.

She started off with the skills of a Knight, at the very least, having had no training, no guidance, no understanding of what the Force even is.

Not to mention she's a master pilot and mechanic, which at least has some potential explanation. At least the mechanic part. But it still seems a carbon copy of young Anakin in Ep I. Master mechanic, master pilot (despite having never flow a space craft before).

She got Woke by the Force and became super powerful overnight. Not even Anakin, with his off the charts Midi-Chlorian count, advanced in strength as quickly as Rey.

Rey is a superficial character. Poorly written.
 
Why is Rey too powerful? The force is the force. Some have it more than others. Rey is awesome.
I wouldn't say she's too powerful, it's just that there's quite literally not a lot of other Force users in the ST. You can count the amount of Force users in the ST on one hand, and the only one who's arguably lower than Rey on the power scale is Leia, who declined Luke's offer to train her.

Snoke and Luke are obviously more powerful than Rey. Snoke can use the Force from his ship to Hux's, and if you believe the rumors in The Legends of Luke Skywalker book, Luke can pull a Star Destroyer out of orbit.

There's also the Force bond between Kylo and Rey to consider; as they share memories and thoughts, maybe they also shared skills.
 
So the force has to be shared now? :facepalm No one else is using it, so Rey can use all of it?
You can count the amount of force users in the OT on one hand and they all needed training.
Rey has beaten Kylo and Luke. Her power is only second to Snoke and he’s dead with no development. She’s now the most powerful person in the galaxy. She was a scavenger on a desert planet just a few days ago.
 
Before TLJ came out, there were several theories/story leaks, some supposedly said that Rey was Anakin reincarnated (resulting in Luke proclaiming "YOU are MY father..."), while others revealed her to be the living embodiment of the Force itself. I remember cringing when I read these, but after seeing TLJ and finding out she's a nobody, I thought those original theories/leaks plausibly explained her godlike prowess better than the movie did. Otherwise how else could one explain her abilities to fly ships, understand languages, mind control, saber wielding (not just beating Kylo, but also overpowering a Jedi master) and telekinesis with ZERO training. She's basically Neo already pre-programmed with every imaginable skill.
 
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I must confess I wasn't a big Kylo fan after TFA. The moment he took off his mask I was facepalming big times. But when he started to mind-link with Rey, things got interesting. When he killed Snoke and produced his "Let the past die" line, he actually turned into the most interesting character of the new trilogy. I really hope JJ doesn't water down his character and lets him go totally berserk. I'd love to see him haunted by Luke wherever he is (Luke said he would never be free of him if he killed him, so that has to be shown). I'd even say, Luke occupies Kylo's mind only so that only he can see and hear him, not the others around him. That would give Hux a reason to rally against Kylo saying he'd totally gone mad and become a threat to the First Order. A mutiny occurs and Kylo is defeated, Hux takes command and becomes his nemesis. Rey surely will have a TRUE answer to her origins. It is so clear to me that Kylo lied to her when he told her that she was nothing to make her turn to his side. Maybe Kylo is so broken that he seeks help from Rey (I can even imagine him lying in Rey's arms, crying like a little boy), both team up and put an end to whatever misery they are into.
 
I dunno, maybe forming opinions based on what happened in the movie + supplemental material is better than making stuff up from wholesale after a complete misread of a scene.

But what do I know. Obviously I'm not a "real" fan because I like the direction Disney is going with the ST.
 
I must confess I wasn't a big Kylo fan after TFA. The moment he took off his mask I was facepalming big times. But when he started to mind-link with Rey, things got interesting. When he killed Snoke and produced his "Let the past die" line, he actually turned into the most interesting character of the new trilogy. I really hope JJ doesn't water down his character and lets him go totally berserk. I'd love to see him haunted by Luke wherever he is (Luke said he would never be free of him if he killed him, so that has to be shown). I'd even say, Luke occupies Kylo's mind only so that only he can see and hear him, not the others around him. That would give Hux a reason to rally against Kylo saying he'd totally gone mad and become a threat to the First Order. A mutiny occurs and Kylo is defeated, Hux takes command and becomes his nemesis. Rey surely will have a TRUE answer to her origins. It is so clear to me that Kylo lied to her when he told her that she was nothing to make her turn to his side. Maybe Kylo is so broken that he seeks help from Rey (I can even imagine him lying in Rey's arms, crying like a little boy), both team up and put an end to whatever misery they are into.

I actually liked Kylo more when he removed his mask. It's like FN-2187 removing his helmet: he went from faceless goon to "someone-really-important"

With Kylo, it turned him from scary monster to actual human being. Han's death was all the more shocking because it wasn't a faceless, black monstrosity killing him, it was his own son, looking at him with his own eyes. You can even notice there's a hint of "what-have-I-done" in Kylo's face before he gets shot by Chewie.

The humanization of Kylo Ren continued in TLJ, with more of his backstory being revealed with his conversations with Rey, Luke's recounting of that night, Rey calling him "Ben". Snoke even outright tells him to get rid of the mask.

The duel with Luke, I'd argue, was better since he wasn't wearing the mask. Luke couldn't avoid the fact that he was going to face his own nephew, and Ben wearing a mask would've taken away quite a bit of the mood.
 
What you read from that scene is one thing, what I took from it may be completely different. It is totally unnecessary to play the I`m obviously not a real fan BS as well. I`m not interested going through that garbage all over again with someone who has just decided to enter the conversation. The fact that this thread is only moving again over how good or bad Ken Ren is speaks volumes to the utter disinterest by this forum at what comes next with Disney`s ST.
 
It's almost as if there's no info on Episode IX out yet outside of rumors and the fact that it's quite literally still filming, or something.

On the record, there's quite a huge difference in trying to interpret a scene and outright ignoring what is literally happening on the screen and just saying it was "badly written"

But that's enough of that, I'll be civil here. I apologize for my rashness, I guess. I'm just tired of the fans who hold the OT in arguably too high regard while looking down on those who like the other stuff more than the OT. I guess that's where I'm coming from.
 
The fact that this thread is only moving again over how good or bad Ken Ren is speaks volumes to the utter disinterest by this forum at what comes next with Disney`s ST.

For me the main flaw is that all the other characters in TFA and TLJ are just plain boring. As boring as their costumes. Nothing against the actors though - they are doing a great job. The chemistry between them is good and you can see that on screen. However, the characters they play are lacking any depth. The good guys are good, the bad guys are bad. That's it. No development, no edges, basically no flaws in their nature. Like kalkamel said, Rey is just perfect. So perfect that she is completely boring. It's really a shame that Disney seems to be unable to create interesting characters in the main Star Wars line, whereas they succeeded in the standalone films. Take Baze & Chirrut. These were good guys but INTERESTING good guys. I'd love to see their story, a complete movie about their adventures. But again, the main cast (Jyn & Cassian) remained completely bland and pale. Something is definitely wrong with Disney SW.
 
Bob Iger said in an interview with THR that they will slow down on releasing Star Wars movies after IX.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/n...service-james-gunn-star-wars-slowdown-1145493

Ultimately, I think that's a good thing. The desire to just throw anything up at the wall and meet some schedule for release that's determined less by storytelling and more by "We need a profit-generating movie within X amount of time" is not going to help matters. Unlike something like Marvel, Star Wars isn't really dealing with 70 years of available backstory from which to draw for its inspiration. At best you're talking more like 30 and then there's a LOT of crap mixed in there. (Crystal Star, anyone? Didn't think so.)

I'd rather see them take their time and really develop the stories. I get the sense that the release schedule was at least partially responsible for Solo coming out and the decision to do Obi-Wan and Boba Fett "origin" films. While I could see additional stories there being entertaining, I'm not really asking for that, anymore than I was asking about Han Solo's background. Maybe it'd be cool in an "expanding the universe" sense, but I'd rather see them do that with new characters, and take the franchise into new territory. Rogue One did some of that, in terms of bringing in new characters and showing new settings, albeit all set against the backdrop of "old" events, but I want to see them do more and have only something like the tech/costume design and timeframe be familiar.
 
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