JediMichael
Master Member
He looks pretty awesome as Boba.
Did George Lucas say why he changed Old Anakin Force Ghost to Mid Age Anakin?
- Thread starter JBLAKE
- Start date
Greenie
Sr Member
Inquisitor Peregrinus.... I totally agree with you. Yoda was a master of the force and should have been elusive. The first challenge of a potential Jedi was to seek him out in the hope of being trained. The Jedi were meant to be spread across the galaxy maintaining peace and justice not all huddled together in some monastic order at the centre of the Galaxy.
After the death of Dooku, Palpatine says he will soon have a new apprentice. We can see him and Anakin discussing the nature of the force and the dark side but after that he should then only be seen with him as Vader in the suit. Of course, we see him turn to the dark side and we see the confrontation with his old master but OWK leaves him for dead and that should be the last time we see him.
We knew Padme was pregnant, we didn't need to see the birth and should not have know it was twins. She certainly shouldn't have named them. Why not just hide her away on Alderaan?
As a kid, I never realised the amount of time between IV, V, VI. Since I've known, it doesn't really bother me but you make a very good point about serial matinees.
The ten year jump though, make the set up of TPM pointless. We should have been introduced to Anakin as a teenager and friend to Owen Lars making their living on a spice freighter using his ability to navigate short cuts through hyperspace. Oh, and Padme should have been Owen's sister, making him Luke's real uncle.
Im ranting now so I'd better stop before I rewrite the prequels.
After the death of Dooku, Palpatine says he will soon have a new apprentice. We can see him and Anakin discussing the nature of the force and the dark side but after that he should then only be seen with him as Vader in the suit. Of course, we see him turn to the dark side and we see the confrontation with his old master but OWK leaves him for dead and that should be the last time we see him.
We knew Padme was pregnant, we didn't need to see the birth and should not have know it was twins. She certainly shouldn't have named them. Why not just hide her away on Alderaan?
As a kid, I never realised the amount of time between IV, V, VI. Since I've known, it doesn't really bother me but you make a very good point about serial matinees.
The ten year jump though, make the set up of TPM pointless. We should have been introduced to Anakin as a teenager and friend to Owen Lars making their living on a spice freighter using his ability to navigate short cuts through hyperspace. Oh, and Padme should have been Owen's sister, making him Luke's real uncle.
Im ranting now so I'd better stop before I rewrite the prequels.
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Zombie_61
Master Member
The thing is, when ol' Georgie said this he was referring to people who had nothing to do with a given movie's original production, but felt they had the right to alter that movie as they saw fit simply because they bought the ownership rights. He clearly has no qualms about directors altering their own movies.
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Uridium
Sr Member
Yeah, you are right. But at the same time he also made a statement saying that 'Art should belong to the public', yet he had no issues messing with the OT and then denying the public access to the original version.
Anyway, sorry to go off topic guys. Back to Force Ghosts.
Axlotl
Master Member
Im ranting now so I'd better stop before I rewrite the prequels.
I wish you would.
(Re-write the prequels, I mean)
Hell, I tackled that starting around '00. *lol* After some in-depth convos with friends about what felt off about TPM and revisiting some of my old Starlog and Cinefantastique interviews with Goerge, and Bill Slavicsek's Guide to the Star Wars Universe (that used all the extant material as of '93 to compile a timeline and encyclopedia). Then the title of Episode II was announced, and rewriting became a moral imperative. As The Wook might say, I felt the need to put my high SWIQ to actual good use. Apologies to those who like the Prequels, but they just aren't good stories, well-told. Good concepts, yes. But executed sloppily. I'm talking about the script/dialogue/direction, there, not the technical aspects of sets or models.
And for anyone who feels George's vision is sacrosanct and not to be messed with... Bollocks. Humans have been doing fanfic and rewrites of earlier works since the year dot. Shakespeare built his career on it. And Andrew Lloyd Webber. The history of prose and play is replete with "I can do it better". I'm revising everything, what with the new films, but I'm always happy to let my take be out there and let the audience and history be the judge. I will always credit George with creating the sandbox, but also always be quick to point out that it saw expression best when he involved other people who actually knew something about actual storytelling (with words, or visually).
--Jonah
And for anyone who feels George's vision is sacrosanct and not to be messed with... Bollocks. Humans have been doing fanfic and rewrites of earlier works since the year dot. Shakespeare built his career on it. And Andrew Lloyd Webber. The history of prose and play is replete with "I can do it better". I'm revising everything, what with the new films, but I'm always happy to let my take be out there and let the audience and history be the judge. I will always credit George with creating the sandbox, but also always be quick to point out that it saw expression best when he involved other people who actually knew something about actual storytelling (with words, or visually).
--Jonah
I liked the Prequel story, but I agree there is a lot of cringe inducing dialogue. Still I'll watch any of those over seeing TFA again.
JediMichael
Master Member
I wish the prequels had toned down on all the politic type stuff and perhaps had Anakin turn in Ep. 2, then have Ep. 3 with the Empire starting out smaller but showing them getting into more power and Vader at least starting to hunt down the Jedi in hiding.
modelcitizen
Sr Member
i couldn't stand to watch Friday The 13th in space ever again but that's just me
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JediMichael
Master Member
Ha, that was pretty good.
Whereas I prefer TFA over the Prequels -- despite it feeling like there should have been a full trilogy between RotJ and TFA. JediMichael, to preserve the narrative tension of the OT, we have to leave the Prequels not knowing what Yoda looks like and not knowing Anakin turned. The whole narrative of TESB and the first act of RotJ depend on those surprises. The slide from Clone Wars to Empire needs to be more drawn out and a lot happen after Luke is born. More like the Punic Wars and deterioration of the Roman Republic. As of a few weeks before ANH, the Empire is still just solidifying its grip over the central systems, and has not yet turned its attention to the Outer Rim. It's been a decade of shipbuilding and militarization, and the declaration of Empire and start of the Rebellion ought to be a bit more recent. One of the things I like about Rebels is that five-years-BBY start point actually works well for the first stirrings of resistance coalescing into the Alliance to Restore the Republic.
If Lucas had found the intestinal fortitude to stick with his original notion, and unclenched enough to collaborate with good storytellers like Marcia and Kersh and Larry (and Leigh, had she lived) ongoingly, I do think we would have seen the twelve Obi-Wan and Luke centric episodes leading from the precursors to the Clone Wars through the death of the Emperor and collapse of Empire. And it would have likely been a more-closely-tied narrative. Have the lapses of time occur within the episodes, for the most part. Something like (and yes, I use stuff from the new canon and the EU that hasn't been contradicted to draw from)...
• Episode I -- About 35 BBY, actually introduces the setting instead of throwing us in in media res like the rest, spans months up to maybe a year
• Episode II -- About 33 BBY, first conflict of what would come to be known afterward as the Clone Wars, spans about two or three years
• Episode III -- About 30-15 BBY, much fighting and political maneuvering, montage included glossing over transitions to peace and back to war, spans about a decade, coda takes place several years later still
• Episode IV -- About 7/8 BBY, Declaration of Empire
• Episode V -- About six months BBY, Rogue One and some stuff on Tatooine
• Episode VI -- ANH, zero point, last adventure of corporeal Obi-Wan, torch passed to Luke
• Episode VII -- TESB, about a year later, non-cliffhanger from previous to solidify transition to Adventures of Luke Skywalker
• Episode VIII -- less than a year later, rescue of Han Solo, revelation of new Imperial superweapon under construction, not known where
• Episode IX -- days or weeks later, Han uses underworld contacts to find out where the Maguffin is, Luke says farewell to Yoda and hunts for his sister (who is not Leia)
• Episode X -- months later, Rebels assault what they think is a new Death Star, it's a trap, Luke deus ex machinas Our Heroes out of defeat, but is captured
• Episode XI -- immediately following, final confrontation with the Emperor and Vader in the Emperor's inner sanctum on Coruscant -- sorry, Imperial Center
• Episode XII -- weeks later, Rebels attempt to declare New Republic, Imperial holdouts... well... hold out, buildup to and Battle of Jakku, coda is establishment of new Jedi temple
Then there'd need to be at least a trilogy in there setting up the new characters and passing the torch to a new generation, before we get to a revised TFA twenty-odd years on. Luke would still be there, but in more of a mentor role. Possibilities include: training his sister and she goes Dark Side; running into someone like Lumiya or Mara Jade or Seventh Sister and turning them back to the light now that the Emperor's influence over then has lessened, possibly getting married (take that, George!). I'd like to have Mandalorians involved, once they're able to kick the Empire out of their space. Maybe have Boba or Bo-Katan oppose Luke, as they have reason to see the Jedi in negative light. Maybe have Fenn Rau (being a canon replacement for Fenn Shysa, for obvious international-vulgarity reasons) show up as a potential rival with Han for Leia's affections. Have an old and grouchy Mace Windu show up with cybernetic hands to advise Luke... There's so much potential for that period. *sigh*
And definitely keep old Anakin for the Force ghost, though I do like the idea of having them de-age over time, as residual self-image takes them back to prime.
--Jonah
If Lucas had found the intestinal fortitude to stick with his original notion, and unclenched enough to collaborate with good storytellers like Marcia and Kersh and Larry (and Leigh, had she lived) ongoingly, I do think we would have seen the twelve Obi-Wan and Luke centric episodes leading from the precursors to the Clone Wars through the death of the Emperor and collapse of Empire. And it would have likely been a more-closely-tied narrative. Have the lapses of time occur within the episodes, for the most part. Something like (and yes, I use stuff from the new canon and the EU that hasn't been contradicted to draw from)...
• Episode I -- About 35 BBY, actually introduces the setting instead of throwing us in in media res like the rest, spans months up to maybe a year
• Episode II -- About 33 BBY, first conflict of what would come to be known afterward as the Clone Wars, spans about two or three years
• Episode III -- About 30-15 BBY, much fighting and political maneuvering, montage included glossing over transitions to peace and back to war, spans about a decade, coda takes place several years later still
• Episode IV -- About 7/8 BBY, Declaration of Empire
• Episode V -- About six months BBY, Rogue One and some stuff on Tatooine
• Episode VI -- ANH, zero point, last adventure of corporeal Obi-Wan, torch passed to Luke
• Episode VII -- TESB, about a year later, non-cliffhanger from previous to solidify transition to Adventures of Luke Skywalker
• Episode VIII -- less than a year later, rescue of Han Solo, revelation of new Imperial superweapon under construction, not known where
• Episode IX -- days or weeks later, Han uses underworld contacts to find out where the Maguffin is, Luke says farewell to Yoda and hunts for his sister (who is not Leia)
• Episode X -- months later, Rebels assault what they think is a new Death Star, it's a trap, Luke deus ex machinas Our Heroes out of defeat, but is captured
• Episode XI -- immediately following, final confrontation with the Emperor and Vader in the Emperor's inner sanctum on Coruscant -- sorry, Imperial Center
• Episode XII -- weeks later, Rebels attempt to declare New Republic, Imperial holdouts... well... hold out, buildup to and Battle of Jakku, coda is establishment of new Jedi temple
Then there'd need to be at least a trilogy in there setting up the new characters and passing the torch to a new generation, before we get to a revised TFA twenty-odd years on. Luke would still be there, but in more of a mentor role. Possibilities include: training his sister and she goes Dark Side; running into someone like Lumiya or Mara Jade or Seventh Sister and turning them back to the light now that the Emperor's influence over then has lessened, possibly getting married (take that, George!). I'd like to have Mandalorians involved, once they're able to kick the Empire out of their space. Maybe have Boba or Bo-Katan oppose Luke, as they have reason to see the Jedi in negative light. Maybe have Fenn Rau (being a canon replacement for Fenn Shysa, for obvious international-vulgarity reasons) show up as a potential rival with Han for Leia's affections. Have an old and grouchy Mace Windu show up with cybernetic hands to advise Luke... There's so much potential for that period. *sigh*
And definitely keep old Anakin for the Force ghost, though I do like the idea of having them de-age over time, as residual self-image takes them back to prime.
--Jonah
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Axlotl
Master Member
The prequels were a huge misstep in every way.
The only thing they included that should have been included was the Clone Wars, and they even managed to screw that up.
I didn't need - nor want - to see Darth Vader as a little boy, and the insignificant little nothings that bugged him so bad he decided to be evil (sand...).
I already knew all I needed to know about Darth Vader: He's the Bad Guy!
You know what I did want to know more about?
C-3PO: "Our former master was Captain Antilles..."
Who was Captain Antilles? What adventures did Artoo and Threepio have with that guy?
Did he fight in the Clone Wars, too? Maybe he knew Obiwan and Luke's dad.
How did Uncle Owen know so much about Obiwan and Luke's dad? Did he fight in the Clone Wars, too?
Was Uncle Owen a *dun-dun-DUN!* Jedi Knight??
So.
Many.
Missed.
Opportunities!
Instead we got a lame story about a lame person doing lame things that not only castrates and emasculates the main villain but also contradicts every important thing already established in the original movies.
The only thing they included that should have been included was the Clone Wars, and they even managed to screw that up.
I didn't need - nor want - to see Darth Vader as a little boy, and the insignificant little nothings that bugged him so bad he decided to be evil (sand...).
I already knew all I needed to know about Darth Vader: He's the Bad Guy!
You know what I did want to know more about?
C-3PO: "Our former master was Captain Antilles..."
Who was Captain Antilles? What adventures did Artoo and Threepio have with that guy?
Did he fight in the Clone Wars, too? Maybe he knew Obiwan and Luke's dad.
How did Uncle Owen know so much about Obiwan and Luke's dad? Did he fight in the Clone Wars, too?
Was Uncle Owen a *dun-dun-DUN!* Jedi Knight??
So.
Many.
Missed.
Opportunities!
Instead we got a lame story about a lame person doing lame things that not only castrates and emasculates the main villain but also contradicts every important thing already established in the original movies.
JediMichael
Master Member
Just edit all the best lightsaber parts together and its something enjoyable.
Greenie
Sr Member
It would make a great show reel for Nick Gillard's fight choreography and a damning indictment for the use of green screen.
There was a lot of "I don't care about this" in the prequels. Worse, there was a lot of, "are you serious?" or "please just finish and get to the next scene".
Thinking about it now, I think George was trying to change the entire series from space opera to more general sciece fiction.
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What he was trying to do was make showreels for ILM to keep them on top at time when they were finally facing legit contenders like WETA and Digital Domain. At the same time, Shadows of the Empire and the SE proved the IP was alive and well and could generate serious money. He wanted to tell a story, but that was honestly low on the reasons why. Not so low that he’d let more qualified writers or directors do it, but still low.
The really couldn't because that's partly how Sidious gained power. TPM had the most about it, but that was mainly in the crawl. You don't really hear as much after TPM. They needed to show how Sidious was orchestrating everything so when he says "I AM the Senate!" you know he's in control.
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